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Wrath

Club Legend
Aug 31, 2002
1,627
14
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
North Melbourne Kangaroos
Speaking of games being played elswhere, how are we travelling with the new State Government and getting the funding for Ballarat?

Wrath
 

Shinboner Schem

Club Legend
Jun 6, 2007
2,970
82
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Fitzroy FC
Obstacle, you are being over critical.

The members backed Brayshaw, that is when they had input. If certain cliques want the power to continually second guess an elected board then the situation will eventually become unworkable.
The members backed Brayshaw when he wanted to keep us a Melbourne based club with a caveat of the possible need to sell a few games.
The members did not back him/the board changing that to selling more than half our games interstate along with setting up an interstate based reserves team.



My response did address the issue. The club has to look elsewhere to expand membership gring in finances.

Tassie would be the first step to relocation (read death of NMFC) and be no different to GC proposal.
Once again, this is your fertile melodramatics at work and nothing else.

Yours is exactly the kind of mindset that would be the death of this football club.
Your mindset seems to be that it doesn't matter where we find new members as long as we find them.
Well, that was the aim of the previous adminsitration 10 years ago when they dropped the North Melbourne from our name.
A fragmented membership will do nothing for improving match attendances.
The partnership with the city of Ballarat is a good move as it is an area in reach of our home games.
You don't have to be melodramatic to see that playing more than half our home games in another state will lead to declining membership in Melbourne. $8m can't prevent that from happening.
 

The OBSTacle

Premiership Player
Suspended
Jul 20, 2010
4,570
210
Eugenes Balcony
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Obstacle, you are being over critical.
That's your opinion.

I would claim that I am not letting my emotions overcloud my judgement.


The members backed Brayshaw when he wanted to keep us a Melbourne based club with a caveat of the possible need to sell a few games.
Correct.

The members did not back him/the board changing that to selling more than half our games interstate along with setting up an interstate based reserves team.
Really? Can you provide me with proof to back this ceiling on games, or is this just your view of the matter?

When was the reserves side ever going to be "based" in Tasmania?

Your mindset seems to be that it doesn't matter where we find new members as long as we find them.
Can we afford to turn our backs on anyone?

Non aligned Melburnians aren't exactly kicking down the doors at Arden Street.

Well, that was the aim of the previous adminsitration 10 years ago when they dropped the North Melbourne from our name.
It's completely laughable that you would attempt to connect the old admin with the new admin.

A fragmented membership will do nothing for improving match attendances.
Fragmented what? You're either a member or you aren't. That's it.

The partnership with the city of Ballarat is a good move as it is an area in reach of our home games.
It is currently a PIPE DREAM. I have no inbterest in an administration that is prepared to invest the future of this football clunb in a PIPE DREAM.

You don't have to be melodramatic to see that playing more than half our home games in another state will lead to declining membership in Melbourne.
Firstly, you are conveniently leaving out the proviso that the 7 game Tasmanian deal included 11 games in Melbourne with member privileges.

Secondly, I believe that the overwhelming majority of our current membership are the die hards that will never abandon an Arden Street based club anyway.

$8,000,000 p.a will more than make up for the flaky few that decide to discontinue their support.

$8m can't prevent that from happening.
Lose 1-2,000 supporters or accept 8 million a year?

It's not even a choice.
 

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Shinboner Schem

Club Legend
Jun 6, 2007
2,970
82
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Fitzroy FC
I would claim that I am not letting my emotions overcloud my judgement.
Coming from you that is laughable!

Really? Can you provide me with proof to back this ceiling on games, or is this just your view of the matter?
He specifically mentioned the "Hawthorn model". Thier model is only 4 games.

When was the reserves side ever going to be "based" in Tasmania?
Slight mistake there. It was to be an Academy setup in Tassie.

Can we afford to turn our backs on anyone?

Non aligned Melburnians aren't exactly kicking down the doors at Arden Street.
Not saying to turn backs, but working on gaining members in a different state will not improve our attendances in Melbourne.


A fragmented membership will do nothing for improving match attendances.
Fragmented what? You're either a member or you aren't. That's it.
Fragmented - to break or cause to break into fragments
i.e. to have members spread across the country.
As i said, having members in a different state wont help our Melbourne attendances. Along with cash flow/debt, this is our biggest problem.

The partnership with the city of Ballarat is a good move as it is an area in reach of our home games.
It is currently a PIPE DREAM. I have no inbterest in an administration that is prepared to invest the future of this football clunb in a PIPE DREAM.
Stop reading my comments with your own slant! :mad: I never mentioned playing games there. I was referring the work the club is doing to gain support/members in that area because its a place where the residents don't have to catch a boat/plane to come to our melbourne games.

Firstly, you are conveniently leaving out the proviso that the 7 game Tasmanian deal included 11 games in Melbourne with member privileges.
Yes, because AFL promises mean nothing! It took less than a decade for them to break their promise to Fitzroy supporters that the Brisbane Lions would play no less than 6 games per season in victoria.

Secondly, I believe that the overwhelming majority of our current membership are the die hards that will never abandon an Arden Street based club anyway.
where's your facts and figures?
Why don't you take your card table down to a game and survey them on this matter then?


$8,000,000 p.a will more than make up for the flaky few that decide to discontinue their support.

Lose 1-2,000 supporters or accept 8 million a year?

It's not even a choice.
it'll be 1-2000 supporters in the first year alone!
And in 10 years when the deal is due to expire, we'll have no choice but to renew/increase the committment because our Melbourne supportership has declined. Way to cement ourselves in melbourne!
 

The OBSTacle

Premiership Player
Suspended
Jul 20, 2010
4,570
210
Eugenes Balcony
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Coming from you that is laughable!
On the contrary, it's because I don't allow "feelings" and "political correctness' to enter my rationale, that I am often percieved as difficult or abrasive,

He specifically mentioned the "Hawthorn model". Thier model is only 4 games.
If you're going to be literal then you may as well go all the way. Were we going to be wearing brown and gold jumpers as well?

Not saying to turn backs, but working on gaining members in a different state will not improve our attendances in Melbourne.
That doesn't seem to bother Hawthorn. Ironic, hey?

We aren't going to garner any great benefits from Ballarat until we play games there. So again, your premise is based on what is currently a pipe dream.

Fragmented - to break or cause to break into fragments
i.e. to have members spread across the country.
As i said, having members in a different state wont help our Melbourne attendances. Along with cash flow/debt, this is our biggest problem.
No, cash flow/debt IS our biggest problem, and membership numbers in Melbourne have been dwindling.

These are the indisputable facts.

Finances from another state help secure our playing list and footy dept spending, which in turn raise our chances of success, which in turn lead to better scheduling which in turn create a more fertile local market for membership and financial growth.


Stop reading my comments with your own slant! :mad: I never mentioned playing games there. I was referring the work the club is doing to gain support/members in that area because its a place where the residents don't have to catch a boat/plane to come to our melbourne games.
Commenting on Ballarat without actually playing games there is a pointless exercise, hence my logical extension of your statement.

Why else would we be wasting our time in a measly 100K populated market 100 kms away from our home base instead of investing in the local community?

Do you think Australian Rules Football is foreign to the folk of Ballarat?

If we don't play games in Ballarat and set up a serious commitment, then we are wasting our time attempting to farm the Ballarat community.

Games in Ballarat are currently a pipe dream.

Yes, because AFL promises mean nothing! It took less than a decade for them to break their promise to Fitzroy supporters that the Brisbane Lions would play no less than 6 games per season in victoria.
This is a merger, and is irrelevant to our situation. Brisbane supporters do not have seperate "Fitzroy supporters". You are either a Brisbane supporter or you aren't.

where's your facts and figures?
It's just my reasoned and intuitive opinion after being an actual North supporter for over 40 years.

I see mostly 35-40 year old plus people and their kids at the footy supporting North. I don't believe we have gained a lot of supporters over the past decade. Now, if these people were prepared to sit through the last administration and the bland boring Laidley years, then I think it's reasonable to believe they are die hard supporters in the main.

Why don't you take your card table down to a game and survey them on this matter then?
I don't have to. I'm voting Brayshaw, Brayshaw, O'Hoy and letting the admin finish the job they started.

Unlike some deluded types around here, I don't think I can do a better job than the current admin.

IMO, this club is in very safe hands.

it'll be 1-2000 supporters in the first year alone!
A pessimist would think that.

And in 10 years when the deal is due to expire, we'll have no choice but to renew/increase the committment because our Melbourne supportership has declined. Way to cement ourselves in melbourne!
In 10 years time this club will have at least 2 more cups in the trophy cabinet and a membership exceeding 45,000.

As long as we make the correct hard decisions right now.
 

Shinboner Schem

Club Legend
Jun 6, 2007
2,970
82
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Fitzroy FC
On the contrary, it's because I don't allow "feelings" and "political correctness' to enter my rationale, that I am often percieved as difficult or abrasive,
I'd believe this if your views were even slightly balanced. i.e. you have had nothing but glowing praise for the "most productive and dynamic leadership in the clubs history". Whilst they have been commendable, they are not exempt from review at the individual level.

If you're going to be literal then you may as well go all the way. Were we going to be wearing brown and gold jumpers as well?
you're so funny!


That doesn't seem to bother Hawthorn. Ironic, hey?
When was the last time Hawthorn had less than 20k attendance to one of its Melbourne based home games? That wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it?

No, cash flow/debt IS our biggest problem, and membership numbers in Melbourne have been dwindling.

These are the indisputable facts.
And why is it our biggest problem? because our home games aren't making us enough money because there's not enough people going.
Long term, we need to have a larger membership base and a non-football revenue stream.

Finances from another state help secure our playing list and footy dept spending, which in turn raise our chances of success, which in turn lead to better scheduling which in turn create a more fertile local market for membership and financial growth.
I can play that game too!...
More members in/around melbourne means more people turning up to games, which in turn leads to better sponsorhip and financial growth.

We aren't going to garner any great benefits from Ballarat until we play games there. So again, your premise is based on what is currently a pipe dream.
...

Commenting on Ballarat without actually playing games there is a pointless exercise, hence my logical extension of your statement.

Why else would we be wasting our time in a measly 100K populated market 100 kms away from our home base instead of investing in the local community?

Do you think Australian Rules Football is foreign to the folk of Ballarat?

If we don't play games in Ballarat and set up a serious commitment, then we are wasting our time attempting to farm the Ballarat community.

Games in Ballarat are currently a pipe dream.
What's the point if we don't play games there you ask.
Well, then I guess Richmond engaging with Craigieburn, Hawthorn with the waverley area, and Melbourne with Casey are pointless exercises too.
They're just as foregin to aussie rules than the "folk" of Ballarat!

What's your plan for increasing our melbourne membership/attendances?
And don't say pumping money into promotion.

This is a merger, and is irrelevant to our situation. Brisbane supporters do not have seperate "Fitzroy supporters". You are either a Brisbane supporter or you aren't.
It's entirely relevant. AFL made a promise to the Fitzroy administrators to schedule 6 games as part of the merger and broke it.
You were the one that was sprouting the 10 games, trying to justify the 7 home game sale.

It's just my reasoned and intuitive opinion after being an actual North supporter for over 40 years.

I see mostly 35-40 year old plus people and their kids at the footy supporting North. I don't believe we have gained a lot of supporters over the past decade. Now, if these people were prepared to sit through the last administration and the bland boring Laidley years, then I think it's reasonable to believe they are die hard supporters in the main.
Did 20 odd thousand members show up to DBH?
No they didn't, so you can't say they are die hard supporters.


I don't have to. I'm voting Brayshaw, Brayshaw, O'Hoy and letting the admin finish the job they started.

Unlike some deluded types around here, I don't think I can do a better job than the current admin.

IMO, this club is in very safe hands.
Just because you believe they are doing a good job, doesn't make anyone else deluded in thinking they can add value.
It would be very naive of anyone to think just because the administration has done well as a whole, that it means every individual board member is the best possible candidate.
What skills do the individual board members posess that will help us overcome our current challenges?
IIRC, there were some individuals that posessed particular skills to aid the Arden St redevelopment. How is that skill relevant to increasing membership, debt reduction, etc?


In 10 years time this club will have at least 2 more cups in the trophy cabinet and a membership exceeding 45,000.

As long as we make the correct hard decisions right now.
How many of that supposed 45k will be in melbourne?
I suppose you can back up your claim somehow?
 

Zondor

Premium Platinum
Oct 5, 2004
16,410
16,664
Hell
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Leigh Brown
And in 10 years when the deal is due to expire, we'll have no choice but to renew/increase the committment because our Melbourne supportership has declined. Way to cement ourselves in melbourne!
In 10 years time this club will have at least 2 more cups in the trophy cabinet and a membership exceeding 45,000.
How many of that supposed 45k will be in melbourne?
I suppose you can back up your claim somehow?
Does anybody else out there get the impression that the Teflon TESTicle hasn't thought this thru?
 

The OBSTacle

Premiership Player
Suspended
Jul 20, 2010
4,570
210
Eugenes Balcony
AFL Club
North Melbourne
When was the last time Hawthorn had less than 20k attendance to one of its Melbourne based home games? That wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it?
None, since they shipped them all of to Launceston.

You may be the first person to ever die from irony.


And why is it our biggest problem? because our home games aren't making us enough money because there's not enough people going.
Exactly, and our membership numbers are dwindling.

Are you capable of understanding that?

Wishful thinking is not going to solve the problem.

Read up on an historical figure named Nero.

What skills do the individual board members posess that will help us overcome our current challenges?
The ability to make the hard decisions and act on them.

IIRC, there were some individuals that posessed particular skills to aid the Arden St redevelopment. How is that skill relevant to increasing membership, debt reduction, etc?
Tell me champ, what magical skills does David Wheadon have to increase Melbourne members that the combined talents of the current board and Eugene Arocca do not already possess?

You want a personal ****ing agony aunt to act upon your fears and insecurities. This is the entire basis of your position.

The day this club is run by pessimist reactionaries is the day this club starts to die. That is not leadership.


How many of that supposed 45k will be in melbourne?
I couldn't give a **** if they all resided in Fiji.

45,000 paying members will keep this club alive.

I suppose you can back up your claim somehow?
I have much more faith in the current board than I do in your "wishful thinking" policy. That is certain death.
 

Limerick

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2006
3,316
1,328
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Obst, are you saying that the Board has come to the conclusion that the NMFC can't survive in Melbourne and needs to sell 7 (or more) home games to Tassie, Fiji or where ever? Is the JB, MB,TOH ticket going to state this in their election campaign?
 

The OBSTacle

Premiership Player
Suspended
Jul 20, 2010
4,570
210
Eugenes Balcony
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Obst, are you saying that the Board has come to the conclusion that the NMFC can't survive in Melbourne and needs to sell 7 (or more) home games to Tassie, Fiji or where ever?
I don't think we need to sell 7 games, that's just the package that we were asked to put together for the Tassie Government.

I do think we need to find extra revenue promptly with a talented young list to sustain and free agency on the horizon.

If you agree with that, and then note that we have a fairly sizable existing debt and a diminishing membership base, then what other options do we have?

I'm certainly not prepared to stake the future of a 140 year old football club on wishful thinking.

Tough decisions need to be made in order to correct the ship right now.

If Dave Wheadon, PDR or anyone else can produce a viable model that will radically increase local membership or revenue, then I am prepared to give them serious consideration.

Is the JB, MB,TOH ticket going to state this in their election campaign?
I don't have a clue. It's not as if I am some kind of JB, MB, TOH insider.
 

Passmore

Brownlow Medallist
May 22, 2001
14,026
35,358
The Gasometer Wing
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Norf
Speaking of games being played elswhere, how are we travelling with the new State Government and getting the funding for Ballarat?

Wrath
Not too well I wouldn't have thought.

I'm sure the State Government will probably have more pressing concerns at the moment. It's be hard to justify pouring millions into a new footy stadium when money needs to be spent in Horsham, Warnambool, Kerang etc....
 

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Shinboner Schem

Club Legend
Jun 6, 2007
2,970
82
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Fitzroy FC
geez mate, you keep peddling the same bs: "wishful thinking" "agony aunt" "numbers are dwindling"
Where did i say we should sit back in Melbourne and do nothing? You just like to pick holes in anything that hasn't come from the current board and you assume that no one else is capable of making the "tough decisions".

Why is it that you expect the new candidates to single handedly solve all the clubs issues?
All i've been arguing is that the incumbents be analysed as individuals in the same way as the new candidates.
Since you still can't see that, i'm not going to waste any more breath.

Btw: wishful thinking is exactly what your claims to 45k in 10 years is, since you have nothing to back it up.
 

The OBSTacle

Premiership Player
Suspended
Jul 20, 2010
4,570
210
Eugenes Balcony
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Any chance you could spell his name right or are you intentionally disrepecting him?
I'm not aware that I have spelt the mans name incorrectly, and I can't see how any misspelling is insulting anyway.

Is the word "Wheadon" an insulting term in some country I am yet to see, read or hear about, or are you just resorting to inventing insults now??
 

GarnerSmash

They tried to make me go to rehab
Jun 2, 2009
26,836
52,075
AFL Club
North Melbourne
My two cents.

I would expect that each candidate have the opportunity provide a detailed statement of what it is that they can bring to the board and the club, regardless of whether or not they are currently on the board or not. PDR better brush up on the information he already provided because I will not vote for a candidate that releases a document asking for my vote before basic editing is done. It reeks of a lack of professionalism.

I would expect that each candidate be given the same platform by the club from which to express their views and opinions on what it is that they can bring to the board and the club.

I would expect that the board do not in any way, directly or indirectly, attempt to influence the membership to vote for a specific candidate or candidates. I have no problem with the current board members up for re-election asking the membership to re-elect them to allow the current board to continue it's work for the sake of stability during this transitional phase for our club, but this better not be the basis of their nomination, merely a part of the detailed statement of what it is that they can bring to the board and the club.

I believe that the membership have a right to have a say on who represents them, regardless of the transitional stage the club currently finds itself in.

I would also like for the board to release a statement that provides the membership with an insight into what they deem to be the greatest challenges facing the club in the coming term and what steps they envisage the board will need to take to meet these challenges. This will provide the membership with a basis from which they can determine who the best candidates for the board are. Again, this statement should not recommend or support any candidate up for election.

It is important that this election be fair and transparent.
 

Limerick

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2006
3,316
1,328
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
I don't think we need to sell 7 games, that's just the package that we were asked to put together for the Tassie Government.

I do think we need to find extra revenue promptly with a talented young list to sustain and free agency on the horizon.

If you agree with that, and then note that we have a fairly sizable existing debt and a diminishing membership base, then what other options do we have?

I'm certainly not prepared to stake the future of a 140 year old football club on wishful thinking.

Tough decisions need to be made in order to correct the ship right now.

If Dave Wheadon, PDR or anyone else can produce a viable model that will radically increase local membership or revenue, then I am prepared to give them serious consideration.
Totally agree that we need to significantly increase our revenue and that our membership is going backwards relative to the other melbourne based teams. I would accept up to 4 games for 5 years as a means of removing our debt but this isn't a solution long term to revenue/membership or attendances.

In terms of membership and attendance what have we done over the last few years. You previously indicated that the new Arden St, better list, coach etc was aimed at this. However I believe that we need to be more direct in attacking this key issue and am looking at ALL candidates to outline their thoughts. I'll then vote accordingly.
 

Shinboner Schem

Club Legend
Jun 6, 2007
2,970
82
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Fitzroy FC
great post B Tron!

as i've said they should all be held to the same criteria, and what great criteria you've laid out.
 

The OBSTacle

Premiership Player
Suspended
Jul 20, 2010
4,570
210
Eugenes Balcony
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Totally agree that we need to significantly increase our revenue and that our membership is going backwards relative to the other melbourne based teams. I would accept up to 4 games for 5 years as a means of removing our debt but this isn't a solution long term to revenue/membership or attendances.
I don't think we'll ever see the term "7 game interstate package" again, except for in the posts of the resident alarmists. IMO, that was a one off scenario and the board would have noted that it created some disquiet amongst certain sections of the membership group.

My idea of a perfect scenario is 2 games in Ballarat and 2 games in Hobart against low drawing opponents that could bring in $3 million a year, and also bringing in 5,000 members from both locales to push our membership figure up in to the 40K range.

Ballarat seems to be off the short term agenda, so we might have to push for an extra game or two in Hobart in the short to medium term.

In terms of membership and attendance what have we done over the last few years. You previously indicated that the new Arden St, better list, coach etc was aimed at this. However I believe that we need to be more direct in attacking this key issue and am looking at ALL candidates to outline their thoughts. I'll then vote accordingly.
Fair enough, it seems like you are implementing sound judgement.
 

TheBuzz

Club Legend
Sep 27, 2007
1,408
1,052
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
AFL Club
North Melbourne
OBSTacle,

You seem blinded by your loyalty to the incumbent ticket.

The current board deserve much credit, but they are not above scrutiny.

Fresh people & fresh ideas are not a bad thing. Ensuring those standing for re-election are at least confronted with the concerns of some members through this process, is a worthwhile exercise.
 

The OBSTacle

Premiership Player
Suspended
Jul 20, 2010
4,570
210
Eugenes Balcony
AFL Club
North Melbourne
OBSTacle,

You seem blinded by your loyalty to the incumbent ticket.

The current board deserve much credit, but they are not above scrutiny.

Fresh people & fresh ideas are not a bad thing. Ensuring those standing for re-election are at least confronted with the concerns of some members through this process, is a worthwhile exercise.

I have seen nothing so far that would make me believe that any of the new candidates would improve the existing excellent structure. In fact, I believe the greatest danger is in diluting what I rate as the best board in the history of the NMFC

Members need to take a broad minded approach and choose wisely.

People need to ask themselves this, do you really want to put the board at the 24/7 mercy of people whose lives revolve around the daily opinions of Caroline Wilson?
 

TheBuzz

Club Legend
Sep 27, 2007
1,408
1,052
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Forgetting the good job the incumbents have done, I've seen nothing from them yet regarding the future. But I've seen some positive input/ideas from the challengers. So in terms of their election platform, I'd say the challengers are ahead right now.

Having said that, I do hope for & expect the current board to be returned. But it does not mean that the matters at the forefront of the challengers campaigns are not valid. They are imho legitimate concerns & opportunities that should be taken seriously.

What is important is that even when re-elected, the seed will be planted within the board to (re)evaluate the issues raised. From there, the next three years will provide plenty of opportunity to get rid of the bad apples & get the driven/well credentialed people on board. That is when I expect to see the NMFC board at its greatest capacity.
 

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