Solved New evidence regards to Badali Debs double homicide of 2 police - *Jason Roberts found NOT GUILTY

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Bunk Moreland said:
Original buried statement has been found.

Looks like it was altered to change dying words.

Passed to Hun by whistleblower.

Both statements signed by Charlie Bezzina, though he denies ever taking or signing the second.
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Friggin criminals with badges!

Roberts is no doubt a scumbag and should do time for those robberies (which I never understood why they were never charged), but how many other people have VicPol stitched up over the years? How many other dirt bags are/were doing time for things they claimed innocence on that we all laughed at?

It's like Walsh Street. You know that Jensen and co were really nasty pieces of filth, but the armed robbery squad were just running around doing what they like and very few of those coppers have/will ever face justice for it because the public were okay because it was only filth being cleaned up. Rinse repeat the Melbourne Gangland wars.

Any VicPol involved in this or any other cover ups should be thrown in jail and have their pensions stripped. It really undermines the public's confidence in the entire service (which as a whole is full of wonderful, honest people) and like the Catholic Church, it makes matters worse when HQ defend/protect these criminals and simply pension them off, nothing to see here.

Thanks to corruption Roberts now becomes a victim and will walk away with a tidy payout. Was it worth it VicPol? Ruddy corrupt idiots!
 
Numtums said:
Charlie says he knew he took two statements... Where is he going with that?
Is he suggesting his signature was forged?
Hornet's nest time if someone like him now has all his convictions reviewed.
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Charlie said he only took one statement?
He is saying it's going to be massive because he never took a second statement despite his signature being on the second one
 
Bunk Moreland said:
Bezzina said he’d never seen or heard of the second statement until shown it by the Hun.
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Apologies, I misunderstood what he said on Neil Mitchell then.
I thought he recalled taking a 2nd statement, just not signing it and it's contents being the same. My mistake if thats incorrect.
It's so distressing to think what other filth might now go free all because a few corrupt coppers took a short cut and others will smear to get retrials too.
And whilst they will now blame Roberts lawyers for re-opening the case and distressing the families, again that is solely on VicPol.
The attorney general wasn't really convincing with his statement, it's pretty clear now Roberts is innocent of this crime.
The case must be re-opened!
 
Numtums said:
Apologies, I misunderstood what he said on Neil Mitchell then.
I thought he recalled taking a 2nd statement, just not signing it and it's contents being the same. My mistake if thats incorrect.
It's so distressing to think what other filth might now go free all because a few corrupt coppers took a short cut and others will smear to get retrials too.
And whilst they will now blame Roberts lawyers for re-opening the case and distressing the families, again that is solely on VicPol.
The attorney general wasn't really convincing with his statement, it's pretty clear now Roberts is innocent of this crime.
The case must be re-opened!
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Innocent?
So what, this was the one hold up Debs was doing alone?
No way, His little s**t sidekick was there as usual, 35 years is way too short for the s**t stain.
I love it when he cries about being bashed in jail.
 
Why didn't the GF come forward at the time? Was it because it would have putted her dad in the s**t or was she told not to?

AG should just sign the petition if the Iddles report is true and on BOP Roberts is innocent.Politically how much heat would he cop potentially? (Initially a bit but it would die down. But if the PR goes bad early the stench will stay...that's the fear I reckon).
 
zucchini said:
Innocent?
So what, this was the one hold up Debs was doing alone?
No way, His little s**t sidekick was there as usual, 35 years is way too short for the s**t stain.
I love it when he cries about being bashed in jail.
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As I said earlier, if you want him to do time for the robberies then charge him. (Still puzzled by this)
We are not barbarians and have a legal process in place which both Police and Crims must adhere too or our society is stuffed.
It appears Roberts is innocent of the Silk-Miller case and if so should be set free without question.
Now, if you want to argue time already served + Police corruption vs the Robbery charges, then fill your boots. Personally, I'd say he's paid a price.
We must be more civilised than scum like Ben Debs or Police making false statements. We have to be better than that!
 
Interesting comments relayed from Pullin in the media.

They told him they needed him to re-do his statement to include the comment “there was two of them”.

Pullin was told another officer on scene had heard that, but that he was “a bit of a dickhead” and couldn’t be relied upon to give proper evidence.

Pullin couldn’t recall hearing “there was two of them”, however he agreed to amend the statement as he was told another officer had heard it.
 

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Numtums said:
As I said earlier, if you want him to do time for the robberies then charge him. (Still puzzled by this)
We are not barbarians and have a legal process in place which both Police and Crims must adhere too or our society is stuffed.
It appears Roberts is innocent of the Silk-Miller case and if so should be set free without question.
Now, if you want to argue time already served + Police corruption vs the Robbery charges, then fill your boots. Personally, I'd say he's paid a price.
We must be more civilised than scum like Ben Debs or Police making false statements. We have to be better than that!
Click to expand...
Err, if crims adhered to it we wouldn't need a legal system. Personally, I have no problem with career crims being locked up for the wrong crime when their life outside prison is spent being a criminal. Live by the sword, die by the sword. By the way, I'm not at all convinced that he had nothing to do with it.
 
sprockets said:
Err, if crims adhered to it we wouldn't need a legal system. Personally, I have no problem with career crims being locked up for the wrong crime when their life outside prison is spent being a criminal. Live by the sword, die by the sword. By the way, I'm not at all convinced that he had nothing to do with it.
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Crims are entitled to a due process that is fair and free of corruption. Everyone is!
 
Numtums said:
Crims are entitled to a due process that is fair and free of corruption. Everyone is!
Click to expand...
Yes, in the eyes of the law they are, but Mr and Mrs Joe Public are entitled to a society that's fair and free of corruption. Unfortunately the crims don't give a stuff about 'fair and free of corruption' until it's them who is being judged.
 
Noble cause’: Convenient untruths of corrupt cops in Melbourne
ANDREW RULE, Sunday Herald Sun
November 25, 2017 6:28pm

HUMANS don’t come much worse than Bandali Debs. Like that other sociopathic gun nut Ivan Milat, like Leslie Camilleri the Bega schoolgirl killer, the man who murdered Gary Silk and Rod Miller is beyond pity or redemption.

His teenage offsider in a string of robberies, Jason Roberts, was in a different category — not so much monster as wannabe gangster.

At an age when he should have been finishing high school, Roberts was willing to terrify other people for money — and to associate with a man he knew was a killer. Easily led, he feared the deadly Debs.

It is not mounting a defence of Roberts to suggest (as former leading homicide investigator Ron Iddles has) that although he was clearly an accessory to the murders after the fact the only evidence that he was at the scene is flimsy, circumstantial and at least partly concocted.

Concocted not because police want to lock up the innocent but because they want to lock up those they reckon are guilty. This “noble cause” corruption has been around as long as the other sort: where bent cops rob criminals, take bribes, sell seized drugs and guns, organise robberies, set up brothels and murder for money.

Corruption starts low and creeps upwards, like rising damp. Just this week, two examples have hit the news.

In Melbourne, one Wladimir Babeaff has been cleared of a $500,000 heist in 1993 because an internal police report indicates three corrupt former cops probably did it. In Perth, chilling new evidence supports suspicions that notorious detective Don Hancock killed a woman in 1975 as a favour to one-time state premier Ray O’Connor.

A personal story. Years before Gary Silk and Rod Miller were shot dead in a deserted Moorabbin street in 1998, I had a brush with dodgy investigation practices in the same suburb. It gives a glimpse of the attitudes that led to the fake evidence scandal that finally caught up with Victoria Police this week.

I was driving a Moorabbin council garbage truck early on February 13, 1978, when one of the “garbos”, was hit by a speeding car as he jogged around the truck to fetch a garbage bin.

It was the driver’s fault. There was no doubt about the car make, model, colour or registration number, or that he was speeding.

I can still see my workmate somersault high in the air then hit the kerb with a sickening thump. I feared he was dead. He almost was.

Meanwhile, a cagey ex-policeman moonlighting as an insurance investigator turned up to interview witnesses with his young offsider. The gruff old dog was teaching the new gumshoe a few tricks. He was out to slant the “facts” to favour the driver’s insurer. They needed the garbo to be at fault.

I answered the loaded questions carefully. When I got a typed version of my “statement” to sign, I was shocked. It was littered with inaccuracies, omissions and false additions — things I never said, all minimising the driver’s liability and tilting blame towards the injured man.

I crossed out every sly lie and half-truth. The old cop wasn’t happy with the corrected statement but didn’t argue. He’d tried it on and missed.

Later the same year, local detectives interviewed a uni student friend and me after we’d been randomly attacked by four skinheads in a Warrigal Rd souvlaki shop.

The detectives had folders full of mugshots, bellies full of beer and a bad attitude. Despite being told the attackers belonged to a particular group — well-known to the souvlaki man — and would be identifiable if their pictures were on file, the detectives were keen to blame our broken noses and black eyes on other local villains with no resemblance to the real offenders.

They implied any “pinch” was a good pinch if we’d just nominate someone they thought “had it coming”.

Long after the bruises faded the memory of the interview lingered: the lawmen were happy to promote perjury and a miscarriage of justice to “get a result”. It was about their “clear-up” rate, not about justice.

No wonder the magistrates of that era — a hard-bitten lot — had a saying about police witnesses being sworn in: “The higher the bible, the bigger the lie.”

It was so common for police to “brick” the accused with planted evidence, false confessions and well-schooled witnesses that court clerks used to keep a brick under the bench and push it into view of the witness box when police evidence was getting too “hot”.

Well-known defence lawyer Bernie “the Attorney” Balmer (a former court clerk) recalled this week he often did the brick trick at the Melbourne Magistrates Court, an in-joke known to magistrates familiar with routine police perjury.

Where there’s joke there’s fire. Unsigned fabricated “confessions” were so blatantly abused they were effectively ditched after the Beach Inquiry into police corruption in 1978.

What helped kill unsigned statements was that a client of defence lawyer Terry O’Brien showed investigators he’d jammed a folded piece of paper in brickwork below a squad room window in the Russell St police building: proof he had been hung out the upper-storey window by the legs.

The point is this: there are still police around who learned the dark arts of the trade from the “old school” rogues whose behaviour led directly to the Beach inquiry.

The ingrained readiness to tamper with evidence is relevant to what allegedly happened when Debs and Roberts were finally arrested for the Silk-Miller shootings after a marathon reinvestigation.

The chickens came home to roost this week, when the Herald Sun’s Anthony Dowsley exposed some of the gravest allegations made against Victoria Police since the Beach Inquiry — that a couple of investigators conspired to falsify witness statements to bolster a notably weak murder case against Debs’ teenage offsider.

Debs, as evil as any sane man can be, was a gun crank much like the one-man crime wave Pavel “Mad Max” Marinof, who shot six police officers single-handed in the mid-1980s — including the two who bailed him up with shotguns and eventually killed him.

If Marinof could do that, then Debs, who had multiple handguns and liked to use them, could do something less difficult: shoot the unsuspecting man beside him at the boot of the car then shoot the other officer before he could get his service pistol out.

And after emptying his first gun at the fleeing Miller (according to the lone gunman scenario) Debs used use his spare gun to finish off the wounded Silk.

Ballistics tests don’t prove two shooters, only two guns. The assertion that Roberts was hidden in the foot well of the little Hyundai is exactly that. An assertion.

Debs was a prolific and skilled armed robber. He pulled dozens of robberies over many years — often with a “sidekick” — and didn’t look like being caught until the shootout with Silk and Miller after they pulled over his car near the Silky Emperor restaurant.

Debs was not just the robbery mastermind but the “armourer” — Roberts had never handled a gun until he met the older man, who would hand a pistol to him when it was time to do a “job” requiring one robber to menace victims while the other gathered the loot.

It was Debs who identified targets. It was Debs who often drove around solo, as shown when he stole a spare wheel from a car yard one night in the southeastern suburbs — and was eventually caught after a light-and-sirens car chase by police puzzled why he was so desperate to escape. It was only after his arrest for the murders they realised why he’d been so keen to evade them.

At 17, Roberts was a serious juvenile offender. He helped Debs commit robberies and was later heard on listening devices boasting about it — and referring to the Silk-Miller murders. But what listening devices also revealed is that he feared the vicious Debs. The kid knew Debs had killed before — and would not hesitate to kill him if he thought Roberts would testify against him.

Roberts was a young thug attracted to violence and easy money — much like young thugs who have recently terrorised jewellery shops and carjacked luxury vehicles under the influence of older criminals — yet have received relatively light sentences.

The revelation of the doctored evidence means Attorney-General Martin Pakula, pragmatic politician and logical lawyer, now has to balance public perceptions, practical politics and the need to do the right thing, legally and morally. The same goes for Chief Commissioner Graham Ashton, forced to face a mess not of his making.

If there is one thing more difficult for politicians and police chiefs than an obstinate honest copper it is two obstinate honest coppers, both refusing to be silent when that would make almost everyone’s life easier, including their own.

Ron Iddles risks being shunned by his own former workmates — even by the police union which he led until he left early this year. His former homicide squad mate Charlie Bezzina now finds himself beside Iddles, naturally outraged that his signature was attached to the doctored statement that purports to relay Rod Miller’s dying words.

Proof the murder case against Roberts was purely circumstantial is that at least one experienced detective thought it necessary to take the risk of bolstering it with a false document before it hit court.

It was totally natural to assume that the pair that robbed restaurants together must have been together outside a restaurant on the night of the shooting. The fact that Silk and Miller had been staking out restaurants to detect the two-man robbery team might explain why the first police on the scene were legitimately scared a second shooter was still close by.

But even such powerful assumptions can be wrong. By the time it became obvious there was no strong evidence of a second shooter, the investigators had invested in the “two gunmen” theory.

They needed to find things to support it — and to ditch those that didn’t.

It was clear a defence lawyer could drive a truck through the holes in the murder case against Roberts, and so the prosecution shrewdly concentrated on the sequence of robberies — undoubtedly committed by both men — and let the murder case against Roberts be proven by inference. It was presented as guilt by association, which was aided by Roberts’ refusal to testify to exonerate himself in case it harmed Debs’ defence.

Finally, much weight was attached to the disjointed words whispered by the dying Rod Miller. Perhaps too much.

Someone typed one of his utterances as “Two … one on foot.”

Therein lies a problem. At least three English words share the sound of “too” or “to” or “two”. It is just as likely that the dying man was saying “Too”, as in “Too hard”, “Too dark,” “Too quick.” Or it could have been “To …” or “Towards”? No-one knows.

The word he used was ambiguous and ambiguity is no use in court. That’s why the keyboard cops cut and pasted a convenient untruth. Allegedly.
 
Paywalled

EXCLUSIVE: A police officer at the scene of the Silk-Miller shootings has claimed one of her statements was falsified and another was shredded.

The female officer has lashed out at the team investigating the police murders.

Her Facebook outburst came after the Herald Sun revealed that a key statement from one of her colleagues, Glenn Pullin, was doctored.

That revelation prompted corruption watchdog IBAC to last month launch a probe into “allegations of serious police misconduct” in the conviction of cop killers Jason Roberts and Bandali Debs.

The woman was one of a group who assisted the dying Sen-Constable Rodney Miller after he and Sgt Gary Silk were shot on August 16, 1998.

“The so-called firkin (sic) gods of the CI — Homicide Squad — Lorimer are responsible for this no-one else.”

She said on the morning of the shootings she was told not to include all evidence she heard, so she refused to put in a statement. Two years later she was finally asked to submit her first statement, but claimed she was ordered not to include detail from her police “running sheet and day book”.

Then she said she was “dragged into Lorimer and told to put (it) all back”.

“But no, the firkin elite of the elite don’t make it a 2nd statement, it’s an altered 1st statement, with the 4th page acknowledgment & jurat (oath) from the 1st statement perfectly lifted and not re-witnessed and dated,’’ she alleged.

“Then the firkin brain surgeons shred the wrong statement on the hand-up brief …”

The officer is among several being interviewed by the corruption watchdog over the Silk-Miller case.

She and colleagues also fronted IBAC in 2015 after former homicide detective and Police Association boss Ron Iddles said that Mr Pullin “confessed” that a senior investigator directed him to make a second statement.

That probe concluded there was no wrongdoing, after Mr Pullin said his “confession” to Mr Iddles had been a lie.

But last month the Herald Sun uncovered a ‘’buried’’ original statement by Mr Pullin, given on the morning the two officers were gunned down, which made no reference to there being multiple offenders.

An altered statement made about two years later, doctored to carry the time and date of the original, was presented to court as his only account.

According to that, he said a dying Sen-Constable Miller had said “they were on foot” — critically indicating more than one gunman had been present.

Mr Iddles, who concluded in a 2013 review of Roberts’ conviction that “on the basis of probability” he was not at the murder scene, last month told the Herald Sun he believed several police had been involved in a “conspiracy”.

anthony.dowsley@news.com.au
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