New facilities at Springfield - update: Federal funding under review

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Danny3

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Oct 6, 2011
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So, it might be a good investment for a player to buy one of the many available and fine quality properties at Springfield?

I'm sure it compares more than favourably with the suburbs TBD mentioned earlier.
 

Danny3

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The BF Lions board here has been discussing this on and off since it was first announced. The general gist is that every other example fall into three categories:
- On landfill, so not suitable to build on.
- Flood prone, so unlikely to receive development proposal.
- Not large enough.

The exceptions seem to be QE2 and now Burpengary. The former has fewer entities coming to the table offering funding, and the latter only just came to the table.

I'd be curious to see what you can add to the list of considered sites that haven't already been floated by one or another over the last year or more.

I'm astounded (although I probably shouldn't be) that Ipswich and Moreton Bay are the only councils that seem to want us. Have we become that irrelevant to the city that BCC couldn't care less if we move out?
 

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May 30, 2013
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Players will be much more worried about facilities, which can directly impact the performance and potential of their footy career, than driving an extra 15 min to training.

Agree. I don't really see why Springfield is that big a deal. Essendon's training is next to an airport, GWS is down the road from Silverwater Prison and Port and the Crows are both in Adelaide. Many of the big US professional teams are based near airports and out of town locations where the land is cheap. The Dallas Cowbows for example are building a new facility in Frisco which is about 36 kms north of Dallas. A planned community like Springfield, while not my style, might even suit many younger players who want to work and live in a fairly self-contained area. We need to provide the best facilities we can and expect that players have some professionalism.
 

James North

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I don't think Springfield is a big deal either in terms of location and potential facilities. It's not ideal in terms of access to juice cafes and river walks, but there isn't a whole lot of usable land close to Brisbane CBD that wouldn't be incredibly expensive to do something with, and lease.

I just think it's a big deal that it's so intertwined with our "football club" Board.
 

Danny3

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Agree. I don't really see why Springfield is that big a deal. Essendon's training is next to an airport, GWS is down the road from Silverwater Prison and Port and the Crows are both in Adelaide. Many of the big US professional teams are based near airports and out of town locations where the land is cheap. The Dallas Cowbows for example are building a new facility in Frisco which is about 36 kms north of Dallas.

Good point. Just Google mapped the Chicago Bears and their training base is 75 kilometres from their home field!

A planned community like Springfield, while not my style, might even suit many younger players who want to work and live in a fairly self-contained area. We need to provide the best facilities we can and expect that players have some professionalism.

As a club, we've obviously dropped the ball on player retention of late. But the "go home" mentality we continually come up against is incongruous with the professionalism you'd expect from players who nominate themselves to be drafted into a national league.
 
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Good point. Just Google mapped the Chicago Bears and their training base is 75 kilometres from their home field!

And though the distances aren't as great, the Washington Redskins, New York Jets and New York Giants don't even play in the same state, let alone the same cities they represent.
 

Alan Smithee

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Anyone else read Lethal's book which goes into detail about how bad the relationship between the Lions and the AFL (read VLAD) became during Bowers reign as CEO of the Lions.... and how bad that relationship still is to this day until VLAD finally steps down? Gee... coincidence or not the Lions were ignored by VLAD over the last decade while GC and GWS were established?

If VLAD actually gave a two poops about our Club (or could behave more professionally) he wouldn't have rubber stamped the appointment of Sharpless. As a result of having AFL backing Sharpless thinks he is justified in his actions but not giving a rats tang-tang-tooie about what the fans think and feel about him being our Chairman.

The only reason there is any progress from Gill is that he doesn't have the prejudice about our Club that VLAD does.

The general football (read non-Lions fans) are finally beginning to ask the obvious questions about how much the actions of the board stinks re Springfield.

Watch this space indeed
 

Alan Smithee

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What's most annoying regarding Sharpless and Springfield is that it seems to be a complete means to an end for him. If he truly cared for the Club he'd sell the fans his vision of how moving to Springfield will contribute to improving the Club overall.

When he spoke at the AGM he conveyed the same level of passion and enthusiasm for the Club as a glassie working at the Normanby Hotel on a Sunday night would when asked to clean the toilets after a punter had taking a ghastly poop (I'm talking about a poop when none of the four walls of the toilet are safe).

If the board voted against extending the Springfield deal who else thinks Sharpless would step down from the board 0.00000012 seconds later?

Alternatively, if the Springfield agreement and development goes ahead I'm confident Sharpless would step down from the board 0.0000000001 seconds after the opening of the Springfield facilities.

*cough*cough*EGM time***cough
 

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I'm not a Sharpless defender, but he was appointed (initially) as a specialist director appointment with a view to assisting the Board in getting the Springfield deal over the line. In that sense, he had one job (when appointed). I don't really blame him if he did walk after the Springfield deal is done or alternatively, if it unravels, as that's what he joined the board to do.

How this then formed a basis for him being elected/installed as Chairman is the worry imo. If the Barrett chatter has any substance, I'd be relieved, in that it might be that Gil is aware of how backward the situation seems.
 
Below is a rough transcript of one of the last questions (and answers) at last year's AGM. It was pretty much the day the music died for me - the moment I, and many others in the room, realised that Sharpless simply doesn't consider the need for members to feel a part of the club important, and that the months of in-fighting had achieved little.
--

MH: We might wrap up after this last question because the board members are all getting tired. It has been a long day.
Yes, in the middle there.

Member: Last year when I attended the AGM, we spoke to the Board members about transparency - about the Board acting in a transparent manner. I suppose tonight I hope that as a Board you take that previous recommendation we gave. Perhaps tonight's questions from the floor and people's thoughts and concerns indicate that being a transparent club and having members at the core of decisions should be at the forefront, because we are the members and as members we want to feel part of the club.

We want to believe and belong. But there are lots of concerns about communication and all sorts of things that have us questioning our membership or possible membership and we just want to feel part of the club again. I think that's been lost. And we need to get back to where we were. I think people's voices and concerns need to be taken into consideration. Whether or not you can provide them with the appropriate answer at another time, I just think people need to feel that their voices have been heard. Over the past years maybe that's not how we've been viewed...

Sharpless: My observations certainly are that communication to members has not been as good as it could have been. So it is again something that we'll discuss.

Now, I think as a closing comment it is important to understand as members of a football club, that the Brisbane Lions is a $50m/yr business and it is a bit like the relationship you have with a banker. We rely on financial support from the AFL. That financial support comes with certain terms and conditions. So as much as it would seem a reasonable proposition that this should be a democracy and members should get to decide everything, given the financial underwriting of the AFL they don't actually have the same view. They take the view that they are responsible for the financial deficits of the clubs and therefore they have certain codes of behaviour of Board members and set the priorities of the board. So as I said our financial support is there, but there's terms and conditions.

Member: So why don't you communicate the AFL's terms and conditions?

Sharpless: So that's what I'm saying. There are a number of issues that the board's had to deal with in the past 3 or 4 months. I'm acutely aware that some people in the federation (?) have the right to butt up(?) on certain things. What I'm trying to explain is that there was a financial imperative for this club to reach a resolution - in fact there was a threat from the AFL if we didn't reach resolution. So I understand your point we are looking to improve our communication. But I think it is important that members understand the nature of the relationship with the AFL given the financial position of this football club. We're not alone. There are a lot of AFL clubs in the same financial position. But that's the predicament we find ourselves in.

Member: <Indistinct question>

Sharpless: We *have* saved you. It involves saving on our operating costs by relocating this meeting here, which is a very very expensive meeting. And it involves taking advantage of the opportunity at Springfield. The combination of those two issues could add as much as $4m to the bottom line of the football club. We need to cut our losses. It is really important for this club to develop a financially sustainable business model - an independent model. That's what I want to do.
--

Sharpless very much believes he has a mandate from the AFL and seemingly little interest in consulting with anyone else.
 

wantok

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Sharpless very much believes he has a mandate from the AFL and seemingly little interest in consulting with anyone else.[/QUOTE]

I was at the meeting and felt just as powerless and stitched up by this blokes appointment. Like most I went along to the meeting prepared to give the man a chance. His demeanour and arrogance immediately lost me and as they say "first impressions are lasting impressions". Like all members I understand the financial imperative to reduce administration costs and improve facilities but the secrecy of the reasons for the selection of Springfield has now aroused conspiracy suspicions in my mind and that of many other long term members. It is the duty of the board to transparently disclose to all members the reasons for the rejections of other sites considered in what we are meant to be believe was an "exhaustive process of consideration". If that was done we might get back together as a united club. Andrew Hamilton is not talking through his hat when he says major backers and sponsors of the club are disillusioned with the selection of Springfield.
 
May 30, 2013
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Good point. Just Google mapped the Chicago Bears and their training base is 75 kilometres from their home field!

As a club, we've obviously dropped the ball on player retention of late. But the "go home" mentality we continually come up against is incongruous with the professionalism you'd expect from players who nominate themselves to be drafted into a national league.

And this is a bit of an Australia/AFL problem. For whatever reason our kids generally don't seem to mature as quickly or accept the need to move to follow their dream. Soccer kids do it way tougher and seem to cope ok. U.S kids, athletes or not, grow up knowing that they'll move away from home at the end of high school. There was an article recently talking about the AFL thinking about increasing the draft age to 20 or something with the AFL themselves taking care of the 18-20 age group as part of a wider equalisation program. I feel this may be a good thing.
 
May 30, 2013
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Below is a rough transcript of one of the last questions (and answers) at last year's AGM. It was pretty much the day the music died for me - the moment I, and many others in the room, realised that Sharpless simply doesn't consider the need for members to feel a part of the club important, and that the months of in-fighting had achieved little.
--

MH: We might wrap up after this last question because the board members are all getting tired. It has been a long day.
Yes, in the middle there.

Member: Last year when I attended the AGM, we spoke to the Board members about transparency - about the Board acting in a transparent manner. I suppose tonight I hope that as a Board you take that previous recommendation we gave. Perhaps tonight's questions from the floor and people's thoughts and concerns indicate that being a transparent club and having members at the core of decisions should be at the forefront, because we are the members and as members we want to feel part of the club.

We want to believe and belong. But there are lots of concerns about communication and all sorts of things that have us questioning our membership or possible membership and we just want to feel part of the club again. I think that's been lost. And we need to get back to where we were. I think people's voices and concerns need to be taken into consideration. Whether or not you can provide them with the appropriate answer at another time, I just think people need to feel that their voices have been heard. Over the past years maybe that's not how we've been viewed...

Sharpless: My observations certainly are that communication to members has not been as good as it could have been. So it is again something that we'll discuss.

Now, I think as a closing comment it is important to understand as members of a football club, that the Brisbane Lions is a $50m/yr business and it is a bit like the relationship you have with a banker. We rely on financial support from the AFL. That financial support comes with certain terms and conditions. So as much as it would seem a reasonable proposition that this should be a democracy and members should get to decide everything, given the financial underwriting of the AFL they don't actually have the same view. They take the view that they are responsible for the financial deficits of the clubs and therefore they have certain codes of behaviour of Board members and set the priorities of the board. So as I said our financial support is there, but there's terms and conditions.

Member: So why don't you communicate the AFL's terms and conditions?

Sharpless: So that's what I'm saying. There are a number of issues that the board's had to deal with in the past 3 or 4 months. I'm acutely aware that some people in the federation (?) have the right to butt up(?) on certain things. What I'm trying to explain is that there was a financial imperative for this club to reach a resolution - in fact there was a threat from the AFL if we didn't reach resolution. So I understand your point we are looking to improve our communication. But I think it is important that members understand the nature of the relationship with the AFL given the financial position of this football club. We're not alone. There are a lot of AFL clubs in the same financial position. But that's the predicament we find ourselves in.

Member: <Indistinct question>

Sharpless: We *have* saved you. It involves saving on our operating costs by relocating this meeting here, which is a very very expensive meeting. And it involves taking advantage of the opportunity at Springfield. The combination of those two issues could add as much as $4m to the bottom line of the football club. We need to cut our losses. It is really important for this club to develop a financially sustainable business model - an independent model. That's what I want to do.
--

Sharpless very much believes he has a mandate from the AFL and seemingly little interest in consulting with anyone else.

Yeah, last yeah when this stuff was on I mentioned that the battle seemed to be more of a corporate one between members of the board. I couldn't see too many real differences between the Angus board and the challengers in terms of direction. I could see some value in having Leigh Matthews on board but that was about it. Someone accused me of being Angus himself or a stooge or something and that seemed a bit harsh but overall I got the feeling that people thought that the new board was going to be a new day which it of course hasn't turned out to be. But, to be fair, I did think that Voss, as much as I love him, was probably at the end of his line and that a change was needed. The results are so far worse this year but I still do think that Leppa might be a better coach long term.
 
Aug 31, 2011
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I have done a quick look and I want to suggest Murarrie Recreation ground. There is a train station is right next to the grounds and there looks to be a decent chunk of land there which is owned by the council. There is polo grounds behind and further land really close which could be turned into temporary car parks for practice matches and there is a large shopping center across from the fields for the players. If we got rejected from that land, there is further land behind the shopping center (still reasonably close to the train station) which looks completely untouched. I'd be shocked if I look at the map in 20 years and still see all that vacant land still untouched.
 
I have done a quick look and I want to suggest Murarrie Recreation ground. There is a train station is right next to the grounds and there looks to be a decent chunk of land there which is owned by the council. There is polo grounds behind and further land really close which could be turned into temporary car parks for practice matches and there is a large shopping center across from the fields for the players. If we got rejected from that land, there is further land behind the shopping center (still reasonably close to the train station) which looks completely untouched. I'd be shocked if I look at the map in 20 years and still see all that vacant land still untouched.

See:

I drove past Murarrie Recreation Reserve the other day and it again struck me that it would be a good site. There's not much there except for some partially-maintained soccer fields and a small skate bowl. I haven't seen it on weekends, but it seems very underutilised. More than enough space for two ovals and other facilities, close to train, main roads/freeways and where the players currently live. I wonder why it wasn't considered seriously.

That site is perfect except for one problem and that it was the site of one of our city dumps, back in the day anything and everything was dumped there.
I am pretty sure it is only used for bike riding, kite flying ,dog training , organized events like that, and a skateboard bowl.
I remember it was a while ago , say maybe 15 years at a guess , the council capped the whole park with a clay surface to contain the toxic stuff from leaking to the top or sides, and then top dressed it.
Maybe it is okay now but as it is definitely under used the health of the park is questionable .
Pretty sure that is why it is never been used for sport , being school carnivals or club sport.
Then again we might get mutant players with super strength.:)

The BF Lions board here has been discussing this on and off since it was first announced. The general gist is that every other example fall into three categories:
- On landfill, so not suitable to build on.
- Flood prone, so unlikely to receive development proposal.
- Not large enough.

The exceptions seem to be QE2 and now Burpengary. The former has fewer entities coming to the table offering funding, and the latter only just came to the table.

I'd be curious to see what you can add to the list of considered sites that haven't already been floated by one or another over the last year or more.
 
May 30, 2013
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I have done a quick look and I want to suggest Murarrie Recreation ground. There is a train station is right next to the grounds and there looks to be a decent chunk of land there which is owned by the council. There is polo grounds behind and further land really close which could be turned into temporary car parks for practice matches and there is a large shopping center across from the fields for the players. If we got rejected from that land, there is further land behind the shopping center (still reasonably close to the train station) which looks completely untouched. I'd be shocked if I look at the map in 20 years and still see all that vacant land still untouched.

The people who own it have to be pretty much willing to give it to you. Even the BCC or QLD govt doesn't just give prime land away, unless you're the Broncos who do currently command the kind of respect that Collingwood might in Vic. If you really wanted to get a non-Springfield solution going then I would recommend teaming up with the likes of the Firebirds and Roar and maybe a future basketball franchise for a joint facility. It happens in the U.S and in Vic many football teams are called 'sporting clubs' because they are really footy and netball clubs together. It makes economic/policy sense for councils/govts to pool resources as much as possible.
 

Big Lion

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Springfield may be a fair way from the latte's and river breezes of inner Brissie but its near some quality suburbs like Goodna and Collingwood Park ;) so maybe we can mention that when we have to sell the club to an un-contracted opposition player. Winning.

Surely there is somewhere closer to the Gabba that would work.
 
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That's fine but, is all that land behind the shopping center land fill as well??? It is the Minippi Parklands, which is a massive chunk of land that has previously had approval for development (was in 2007 so not sure if it was the shopping center that was built or the GFC ruined those plans). Surely if they can develop the land, then we could put a couple of AFL fields and a few admin buildings there.

There is so much land in that region to pick from if you just follow the train line all the way to Manly. Really it is take your pick.

I will nominate another area tomorrow night.
 

Big Lion

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That's fine but, is all that land behind the shopping center land fill as well??? It is the Minippi Parklands, which is a massive chunk of land that has previously had approval for development (was in 2007 so not sure if it was the shopping center that was built or the GFC ruined those plans). Surely if they can develop the land, then we could put a couple of AFL fields and a few admin buildings there.

There is so much land in that region to pick from if you just follow the train line all the way to Manly. Really it is take your pick.

I will nominate another area tomorrow night.

How much of Brisbane used to be landfill? And your right about a heap of land out that way, whether it ticks all the boxes well who knows. Maybe some of our board members have some vacant land out that way that they can sell to the club.:p
 
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