Opinion New List Manager-Who will it be?

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PonsfordMagpie

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Stephen Wells would be a great acquisition if he's available. Not sure of his current status after departing Geelong.

Wouldn't surprise me if Graham Wright took up the mantle permanently. Has experience in the job after his time at the Hawks.
 

Harry O

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You would start looking at key staff who have worked at Tigers Cats and Dogs for last 6 years
 

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magpies42

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I imagine Wright came at top dollar so I expect poaching a top list manager from another club won’t be possible with the cap on footy department spending.
 

76woodenspooners

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My understanding is that today we have two departments ...

Derek Hine & Co ... drafting. Job is to go around to under age comps around the country, go to draft camps, works with the senior coach and footy boss to understand needs, assembles a list from best to worst, on draft night he plays bingo by crossing out numbers as they’re called and then reads out the name next to the highest number when it’s Collingwood’s turn, and gets interviewed before draft about how we’ll be getting best available, and after draft about how amazed we are about the talent we were able to pick up.

Ned Guy & Co ... works with the senior coach and football boss to understand list needs, goes shopping at trade period for those needs for the best available, negotiates with footy clubs snd footy managers, manages the salary cap to ensure that we are getting the best value for our money, and that we’re compliant. Draftees all get paid a fixed amount (a little for first rounders, a little less for second rounders, etc), so managing the draftees within the salary cap is straightforward.

I wonder if Wright will take a look at this structure?

For my mind, the job can be broken up into ...

Negotiator ... kinda like a professional poker player. Maybe we can appoint somebody part time for this role? There are professional negotiators in the world, no way would we afford or justify one full time, but getting one part time might be worthwhile?

Book-keeper ... making sure we stay within the salary cap. This would appear to be reasonably straightforward, and again a very part time role.

Under-age talent identification.

Over-age talent identification.

Media - the Person/people who go up in front of the camera to tell the members how wonderful our new toys will be.
 

BringouttheGimp

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Look re.. we can't be going down the St Kilda/Carlton route.Can't get the first option.. go for the 2nd or 3rd.. no way!

I'd rather we develop our own.. don't want to bring in blokes that have been in the system for a while if they don't suit our purpose.. just for the fu** of it.. so we can remain competitive. That's not gonna deliver very much.
 

MyManLynch

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Look re.. we can't be going down the St Kilda/Carlton route.Can't get the first option.. go for the 2nd or 3rd.. no way!

I'd rather we develop our own.. don't want to bring in blokes that have been in the system for a while if they don't suit our purpose.. just for the fu** of it.. so we can remain competitive. That's not gonna deliver very much.
Agree. Develop from within, with Wright keeping a firm hand on the wheel for a period.
Should we also attempt to reduce the number of triggers in contracts, that can lead to salary cap blowouts (& perfect storms)?
Target 95% of our cap, leaving 5% for rainy days or FA that pop up.
Only go 100%+ if in Premiership contention & looking for last piece of puzzle.
 

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Matz

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Wright came over to be footy boss which is a step up from list manager, no doubt he will step in to help out in the interim but I can't see him going backwards in his career. Also with most teams knowing how bad our salary cap is, this could be one of the toughest jobs to fill imo. Wells would be a preference but you would have to ask why he left Geelong? Does he have the passion? or maybe just needs a change? either way, we need to do the right thing and ask the question.
 

loki04

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Wright came over to be footy boss which is a step up from list manager, no doubt he will step in to help out in the interim but I can't see him going backwards in his career. Also with most teams knowing how bad our salary cap is, this could be one of the toughest jobs to fill imo. Wells would be a preference but you would have to ask why he left Geelong? Does he have the passion? or maybe just needs a change? either way, we need to do the right thing and ask the question.
I'm pretty sure I read an article where Wells said he has steeped away from the role but will be working part time in the background still with the club.

He wanted to reduce his work load iirc so doubtful he would be looking to take over another big role at an even bigger club which is currently a mess on and off the field.
 

Mike Olotripo

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Wright will be our list manager. He was still Hawthorn's list manager when he was head of footy. Astute, measured, knows the salary cap / TPP stuff like the back of his hand.

There is no one better qualified to do it.
 

Markfs

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Would a competent calculator operator expand the pool of candidates?
in normal selection processes, the requirement to add and subtract is normally covered by a masters degree in mathematics from a leading university. The candidate should also be from a good family and be born in december...
 

Markfs

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My understanding is that today we have two departments ...

Derek Hine & Co ... drafting. Job is to go around to under age comps around the country, go to draft camps, works with the senior coach and footy boss to understand needs, assembles a list from best to worst, on draft night he plays bingo by crossing out numbers as they’re called and then reads out the name next to the highest number when it’s Collingwood’s turn, and gets interviewed before draft about how we’ll be getting best available, and after draft about how amazed we are about the talent we were able to pick up.

Ned Guy & Co ... works with the senior coach and football boss to understand list needs, goes shopping at trade period for those needs for the best available, negotiates with footy clubs snd footy managers, manages the salary cap to ensure that we are getting the best value for our money, and that we’re compliant. Draftees all get paid a fixed amount (a little for first rounders, a little less for second rounders, etc), so managing the draftees within the salary cap is straightforward.

I wonder if Wright will take a look at this structure?

For my mind, the job can be broken up into ...

Negotiator ... kinda like a professional poker player. Maybe we can appoint somebody part time for this role? There are professional negotiators in the world, no way would we afford or justify one full time, but getting one part time might be worthwhile?

Book-keeper ... making sure we stay within the salary cap. This would appear to be reasonably straightforward, and again a very part time role.

Under-age talent identification.

Over-age talent identification.

Media - the Person/people who go up in front of the camera to tell the members how wonderful our new toys will be.
From listening to Hine post Ned Guy appointment, he has portrayed himself as subservient to the Ned..... I'm not sure whether that was to reinforce the line that he was a team player or whether he was being petulant and perhaps even distancing himself from the Ned.

The other aspect is the Hine's relationship to the media. Irrespective of the structure, Hine has had a peculiar need for what I believe is some form of affirmation of how good he is as a recruiter. I dont think there is any club that has pushed the "we love what we got in the draft" line, as much as Hine has pushed it in post draft interviews. I dont see the reason for it outside his own ego needs. It reminds me of a time when richmond lined up their 5 top 30 recruits and as being club-changing only to see all or most of them fail... i think that was the Tambling draft.

The think the whole club reeks of massive back-patting and not just the internals but from members and others from outside the club sucking up to the players and various club people. Because of that, I think we need to appoint realists.... someone who is immune to the sucking up and also to the overboard negative reactions that the club is currently getting.

If you're talking about structure, I remember some time back when Hine was at his zenith, and rodney eade was the footy manager, I dont think Hine even reported to Eade. I'm pretty sure of that. If that was the case, it is ridiculous and demonstrates something disfunctional. In the end, the structure is never going to reflect the optimal working level, because it is a team process and all the factors are inter-related. If Ned Guy was pushed out to try to blame him for past mistakes, it only shows that the rest of the footy dept wasn't doing its job. Rendell's comments indicate a bureaucratic methodology where people are protecting their own asses. We can only hope that Rendell was the only one operating that way.
 

Horaceg

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in normal selection processes, the requirement to add and subtract is normally covered by a masters degree in mathematics from a leading university. The candidate should also be from a good family and be born in december...
Fluent in English, ............Ned struggled with words
 

Scodog10

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My understanding is that today we have two departments ...

Derek Hine & Co ... drafting. Job is to go around to under age comps around the country, go to draft camps, works with the senior coach and footy boss to understand needs, assembles a list from best to worst, on draft night he plays bingo by crossing out numbers as they’re called and then reads out the name next to the highest number when it’s Collingwood’s turn, and gets interviewed before draft about how we’ll be getting best available, and after draft about how amazed we are about the talent we were able to pick up.

Ned Guy & Co ... works with the senior coach and football boss to understand list needs, goes shopping at trade period for those needs for the best available, negotiates with footy clubs snd footy managers, manages the salary cap to ensure that we are getting the best value for our money, and that we’re compliant. Draftees all get paid a fixed amount (a little for first rounders, a little less for second rounders, etc), so managing the draftees within the salary cap is straightforward.

I wonder if Wright will take a look at this structure?

For my mind, the job can be broken up into ...

Negotiator ... kinda like a professional poker player. Maybe we can appoint somebody part time for this role? There are professional negotiators in the world, no way would we afford or justify one full time, but getting one part time might be worthwhile?

Book-keeper ... making sure we stay within the salary cap. This would appear to be reasonably straightforward, and again a very part time role.

Under-age talent identification.

Over-age talent identification.

Media - the Person/people who go up in front of the camera to tell the members how wonderful our new toys will be.
This is how I view the ideal structure of the role, however the statement released by Anderson countering Rendell indicated that it’s not how the club currently operates. My feel is we were attempting to leverage Guy’s player management expertise as a pseudo recruiter.

I would do three things to address our current structure:

1. Poach the best pro scout in the league to replace Guy.
2. Beef up recruiting - hire Dalrymple
3. Sack Buckley and replace him with a Kingsley/ Caracella/ Voss/ Leppitsch type.

Point 1 for me is where we’ve slipped. Howe was the last player we brought in that was “moneyball” and the only reason he worked is because we gave up on him in the role he was recruited for. The concern then becomes bookkeeping (IDK who’d have the skills in that area as a pro scout) so Wright needs to stay actively involved in that space based on his conservative contract management while at Hawthorn.

Dalrymple is the best in the business, IMO. He built the core of the best team in it (the Bulldogs) and he’s played a leading hand in building the best up and coming list in the league (Sydney). Hine needs full time support, but more importantly a second voice to challenge him when the time comes and a successor.

Buckley’s current wage is a bloated corpse festering in our FD. By replacing him with an untried or second chance type from a good system you’re saving enough to be able to bolster line coaches and recruiting. If for some reason he stays on then he signs a long term deal (minimum 3 years) at less than half his current wage because he’s done his best work (18-19) when he had guns around him (Longmuir and Boyd).
 
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