List Mgmt. New List Manager

[Limestone]

Simple Minds?
Coming out next year with OMD.

now that’s a Glittering Prize !

 

[mediumsizered]

So we can blow this myth out of the water, it’s in black n white


— Liddle said his meeting with then-free agent Brandon Ellis, who he knew from his days at the Calder Cannons and Richmond, was widely known by Silvagni and the list management team, adding: “ … it was agreed that we would leverage that relationship in our discussions with Brandon.”


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This will not be accepted by the anti-Liddle forces because it is not the answer they were looking for. They would much rather accept the word of some s**t journalist than that of our club. I again question whether some of these forces are members of the Unofficial Selection Committee who have been making a nuisance of themselves around the club for so long.

 

[Blue__Balls]

lol, he also said the Club is united. I suppose you’re going to believe that too?

Curious as to what you're wanting from this "unity"?

Cause I'm assuming everyone at the club wants the club to be successful. Some because they're competitive *ers, some because it means they look good, some because it means they continue to have a job. There will be differing opinions in how we become successful, or how we maintain it - but that's not disunity is it? Because if we want everyone to be of the same mind on every decision that gets made, we're left with a club of Lemmings.

So go on, please do convey in clear terms, what your "unity" looks like.

 

[Stamos]

Curious as to what you're wanting from this "unity"?

Cause I'm assuming everyone at the club wants the club to be successful. Some because they're competitive f***ers, some because it means they look good, some because it means they continue to have a job. There will be differing opinions in how we become successful, or how we maintain it - but that's not disunity is it? Because if we want everyone to be of the same mind on every decision that gets made, we're left with a club of Lemmings.

So go on, please do convey in clear terms, what your "unity" looks like.

Disagreement is fine.
The lack of unity is due to the egos, factions, politics, power struggles which are behind the disagreements, rather than just a difference in opinion.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Disagreement is fine.
The lack of unity is due to the egos, factions, politics, power struggles which are behind the disagreements, rather than just a difference in opinion.

Well aware of the club's history of such behaviour, but what has you so convinced that SOS's departure is a result of it, and not a proactive move to strengthen the "unity" of those who remain?

Devil's advocate - does removing Bolton, SOS and, as we expect to happen soon, MLG not cut one of those warring factions we all so hate out of the club?

What if we're left with a board of savvy business-people who aren't beholden to hereditary club powers?

 

[Stamos]

Well aware of the club's history of such behaviour, but what has you so convinced that SOS's departure is a result of it, and not a proactive move to strengthen the "unity" of those who remain?

Devil's advocate - does removing Bolton, SOS and, as we expect to happen soon, MLG not cut one of those warring factions we all so hate out of the club?

What if we're left with a board of savvy business-people who aren't beholden to hereditary club powers?

Because Liddle is clearly a part of it.
Not a historical faction bullshit, but the ego driven power struggle part. This is clearly evident, perhaps not so much that SOS was removed, but in the way it was done. There's been whispers of this for well over a year.
Just because he might 'win' doesn't mean that it's over, or that we are united.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Because Liddle is clearly a part of it.
Not a historical faction bullshit, but the ego driven power struggle part. This is clearly evident, perhaps not so much that SOS was removed, but in the way it was done. There's been whispers of this for well over a year.
Just because he might 'win' doesn't mean that it's over, or that we are united.

Here's the thing, Stam, this is all supposition and "feel".

"Clearly evident" isn't clear evidence, it's a conclusion you've drawn based on very limited information and "whispers". That's your right, I'm just still not seeing how you can be so set on this one narrative when there are plenty that make as much, if not more sense.

Here's my thought for the moment - unity comes from having a strong leader who will pull everyone into line when required. I think MLG has done a solid job in the top gig, but I'd be curious to see how much oxygen the "factions and parties" would get if someone with a forceful personality and no allegiances took the role instead. Hell, it might get worse, I dunno. Still, food for thought.

 

[cisco82]

So sad to see SOS go , not because he could have further built this list because I think it's basically 90% there , but because I'm worried about the club he works for next.. Hands off!!

Go into player management SOS , i hear there's lots of money in it . screw club land

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Because Liddle is clearly a part of it.
Not a historical faction bullshit, but the ego driven power struggle part. This is clearly evident, perhaps not so much that SOS was removed, but in the way it was done. There's been whispers of this for well over a year.
Just because he might 'win' doesn't mean that it's over, or that we are united.

OMG


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[Stamos]

Here's the thing, Stam, this is all supposition and "feel".

"Clearly evident" isn't clear evidence, it's a conclusion you've drawn based on very limited information and "whispers". That's your right, I'm just still not seeing how you can be so set on this one narrative when there are plenty that make as much, if not more sense.

Well the 'whispers' came true.
SOS just got sacked, how much more evidence do you need? Were they just lucky guesses?
I sure as hell did not want to believe it at the time, but it's pretty hard to ignore the press release on the Club's website, and the numerous news reports that he is now in fact gone.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Well the 'whispers' came true.
SOS just got sacked, how much more evidence do you need? Were they just lucky guesses?
I sure as hell did not want to believe it at the time, but it's pretty hard to ignore the press release on the Club's website, and the numerous news reports that he is now in fact gone.

What I'm trying to say is - how do you know, without any doubt, that his exit is symptomatic of disunity that survives his departure, rather than his presence potentially being a key element of the disunity that has resulted in his exit?

 

[OldBlueFan]

Because Liddle is clearly a part of it.
Not a historical faction bullshit, but the ego driven power struggle part. This is clearly evident, perhaps not so much that SOS was removed, but in the way it was done. There's been whispers of this for well over a year.
Just because he might 'win' doesn't mean that it's over, or that we are united.

Personally I think it is evident in the facts of SOS's removal Stamos.

Firstly SOS was told to go 12 months before he planned to, so was sacked and not leaving of his own volition. Then, upon his removal, in the very press-release which if not written by Liddle, was at least authorised by him, he was not afforded anywhere near the respect deserved nor an acknowledgement of how directly responsible he was for the manoeuvering and creativity that led to our list being as loaded with talent as it is today.

Given that SOS is a widely respected legend of the club who was clearly not being removed for lack of performance in his area of responsibility, his removal has sparked divisions in this forum of die-hard Carlton supporters, so it's reasonable to assume that similar divisions will be reflected within the club itself.

If things start to go pear-shaped with list management over the next year or two, I think these recent events could be the catalyst for yet another implosion at our club.

We all need to hope they get this appointment ******* right.

 

[Stamos]

What I'm trying to say is - how do you know, without any doubt, that his exit is symptomatic of disunity that survives his departure, rather than his presence potentially being a key element of the disunity that has resulted in his exit?

So all the disunity in the Club is due to SOS?
The guy who has been the foundation of our first true rebuild? And now that he's been sacked, we're all unified?

 

[Arr0w]

Want someone who still has a strong will, to focus on the medium to long term when it comes to the draft, while trying to fill the holes/needs through trading

We are not far off from breaking into finals with the list we have, so I would prefer the head of list management/club remain patient and not focus on bringing in players for a mere short term spike, that could jepordise sustained success

 

[Blue__Balls]

So all the disunity in the Club is due to SOS?
The guy who has been the foundation of our first true rebuild? And now that he's been sacked, we're all unified?

Don't know, just pointing out, yet again, that you don't either. Are you willing to admit that though?

 

[Stamos]

Don't know, just pointing out, yet again, that you don't either. Are you willing to admit that though?

That's the climate denier's answer

 

[Blue__Balls]

That's the climate denier's answer

No idea whatsoever what you're getting at here.

Go on - pop it in writing Stamos. Do you accept that the version of events you subscribe to could be inaccurate?

 

[Robert Heatley]

We should be looking at Kane Cornes or Jon Ralph. Both are experts!

 

[Stamos]

No idea whatsoever what you're getting at here.

Go on - pop it in writing Stamos. Do you accept that the version of events you subscribe to could be inaccurate?

There is a possibility, but it is tiny.

When you hear from multiple sources, a long way out, that something is happening, and then that thing happens, they were most likely right. It would have to be one hell of a coincidence/guess.
And when the only source refuting it, is a Club press release, and what Liddle says in an online member forum?
Come off it.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Want someone who still has a strong will, to focus on the medium to long term when it comes to the draft, while trying to fill the holes/needs through trading

We are not far off from breaking into finals with the list we have, so I would prefer the head of list management/club remain patient and not focus on bringing in players for a mere short term spike, that could jepordise sustained success

IMO the only thing that would stop us having long term success now would be if we haven’t recruited well enough over the last 5 years or we start trading them out. We will probably have less assets over the next three years then what we did in 2015 alone to continue to build this list so if we can find a couple of players a year we are doing well. The need for us to bring anyone in for the short term should be non existent unless we are pushing for a flag or they come virtually free (Betts).

 

[gbatman]

I feel sorry for Deluca but he shouldn't be complaining, he should try and get on a VFL list and have another go at the AFL. Complaining is only doing his chances harm IMO.

Mid season draft didn't present any great talent. We probably got the Deluca call right and he did fill a hole for us. Unfortunately for him and fortunately for us we upgraded on him by recruiting Martin, Betts, Newnes and a good batch of draftees as well as we expect others to push ahead of him due to growing maturity.

Deluca is a decent footballer but we have recruited well, recruited a lot and there are young players coming through and there ended up being no spot for him. Same goes for Webb who is another who needs to find a home in the VFL and have a crack at the mid-season draft or 2020 draft.

I don't think he can really complain, if you are out of contract nothing is guaranteed until you are contracted. He was probably close to getting another contract but we filled our list with players we deemed better prospects. End of the day that is AFL and it is what it is and if he wants to get back in the AFL which he's close to doing he needs to put his head down and have a crack at it and make himself a desirable prospect to recruit.

 

[Arr0w]

IMO the only thing that would stop us having long term success now would be if we haven’t recruited well enough over the last 5 years or we start trading them out. We will probably have less assets over the next three years then what we did in 2015 alone to continue to build this list so if we can find a couple of players a year we are doing well. The need for us to bring anyone in for the short term should be non existent unless we are pushing for a flag or they come virtually free (Betts).

SOS has done well building the list, despite concern from a select few on this board. Not one single recruiter has a strike rate better than 60ish odd %, over their tenure.

The real work is about to begin, balancing short vs medium/long term list strategies

While Betts was cheap, he wasn't free and I can understand SOS's reluctance, one which I agree with.

 

[BlueJet]

So all the disunity in the Club is due to SOS?
The guy who has been the foundation of our first true rebuild? And now that he's been sacked, we're all unified?

Quite frankly im not sure any of us could possibly know for certain,
I do understand your perspective but even going off the speculation, it does appear as if it were: Silvagni vs Liddle, Lloyd & Agresta.
It's disappointing for it to come to this, particularly in such a public manner but even if SOS is considered to be somewhat of a flawed genius/alpha personality, he still needs to report to or work alongside others and if that became unachievable it's probably best that he has moved on.

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[gbatman]

The buck has to stop with someone. SOS was the head of his department. It was up to him to make the final decisions. That's pretty much the role there. If you're the boss you need to take into consideration the opinions of those under you but you also have to make the final decision and if that means going against those under you then so be it. If you're going against them a lot and that's working well then you have to question the judgement of those under you.

I think we seem to have got a lot right with SOS as the head of list management.

We might find that the others just simply got a lot wrong. Perhaps they were wanting to go down the quick fix, sell the farm path. Who knows.

Either way, fairly certain doing what your boss wants and having input without the expectation that input is used is nothing abnormal. There is a fine line between trusting those around you and making definite final decisions.

 

[TerryWallet]

SOS has done well building the list, despite concern from a select few on this board. Not one single recruiter has a strike rate better than 60ish odd %, over their tenure.

The real work is about to begin, balancing short vs medium/long term list strategies

While Betts was cheap, he wasn't free and I can understand SOS's reluctance, one which I agree with.

I was with you on the reluctance to bring Betts in. But Papley later fell through, so i now think Betts is a handy 12 month stopgap for a goalkicker. Kinda lucky we made a decision that i reckon was wrong but turned out right in later circs. Maybe they were starting to get the feel Paps wasn't coming by the time they decided to land Betts. They can have that benefit of the dout imo.

Agree on the rest.