Other New Patriots Scandal - DeflateGate

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AmericanCrow said:
Naaw can't do that. In fact, I can see the league agreeing to drop the suspension to 2 games in return for him dropping his remaining appeal ability. Makes Roger look magnanimous.

However, Brady is always one to go down with the ship no matter what...so who knows.
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Can't see the league backing down. Too late in the process, too many legal costs to get to this point.
Brady will continue to stick with his principals.... Wants to keep his reputation as shiny as possible.
 
AmericanCrow said:
It is not a surprise to me that the lower court decision was reversed. The shock to me was (as I said in the fall) that the district court so clearly deviated from the CBA.

Under scrutiny, it clearly did not hold up and not only was reversed but was reversed along with the appeals court deciding other issues that they could have rightfully ignored. It is a total victory for the League and no, there is no way in hell the Supreme Court is picking this up. It is over.

A CBA is in place for a reason--the district court judge clearly forgot that and got caught up in the moment. That is why there are appellate courts.

Moral of the story---sometimes you win the battle and ultimately lose the war. ;)
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If anything, you've been wrong on almost everything else during the Deflategate saga so the likelihood of this continuing beyond is as good as given now. ;)
 

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Complete joke the whole affair. The NFL s**t itself because it had ****** up so many other issues. It was as a panic reaction. Listen to someone like Elway who thought it was a complete joke as well. He misses a Texans game but he should be playing. Step down Roger you flog.
 
TheGreatBarryB said:
Complete joke the whole affair. The NFL s**t itself because it had ****** up so many other issues. It was as a panic reaction. Listen to someone like Elway who thought it was a complete joke as well. He misses a Texans game but he should be playing. Step down Roger you flog.
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Worst commissioner in the history of sports administration.
 
ausbacker said:
If anything, you've been wrong on almost everything else during the Deflategate saga so the likelihood of this continuing beyond is as good as given now. ;)
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Ummm...but I was proved right. I simply admitted in the fall that I was wrong on how the district court judge would rule (silly me I thought he would follow the well established law ;)). I believe that was the proper thing to have done back then--admit I got it wrong on how judge would rule. I can see why some people have trouble admitting when they erred on chat boards, I just don't happen to be one of those blokes.

I also very clearly laid out the fact there was still a long way to go and we should all see how it played out. :p

However, if you think the Supreme Court is going to take this case up on appeal---well mate, please do not put your house on that. :)
 
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AmericanCrow said:
Ummm...but I was proved right. I simply admitted in the fall that I was wrong on how the district court judge would rule (silly me I thought he would follow the well established law ;)). I believe that was the proper thing to have done back then--admit I got it wrong on how judge would rule. I can see why some people have trouble admitting when they erred on chat boards, I just don't happen to be one of those blokes.

I also very clearly laid out the fact there was still a long way to go and we should all see how it played out. :p

However, if you think the Supreme Court is going to take this case up on appeal---well mate, please do not put your house on that. :)
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No, all that's been proven is the fix was in, especially when the judges can't even get a simple fact like this right.


More troublesome, little is being made of the connection between Justice Chin and John Mara, both who went to law school together. I said it before and I'll say it again, this whole thing, from start to finish, is ******* corrupt.
 
GG.exe said:
The nfl commissioner is a nazi and has the resources/contacts to get favorable outcomes. Its the same bullshit that has affected other teams over the decades. However, good to see the pats get some of it :p
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Goodell has effectively ruined my NFL experience, not only for the Patriots, but for the entire want to be involved. After BB & TB, I can easily see myself moving on from the NFL thanks to Goodell.
 
ausbacker said:
No, all that's been proven is the fix was in, especially when the judges can't even get a simple fact like this right.


More troublesome, little is being made of the connection between Justice Chin and John Mara, both who went to law school together. I said it before and I'll say it again, this whole thing, from start to finish, is ******* corrupt.
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Or it is just well established law that the district judge deviated from and the appellate court corrected. It is hard admitting one erred on the legal standard that would eventually be used to uphold the CBA and the commissioner's power. I understand. :)
 
GG.exe said:
The nfl commissioner is a nazi and has the resources/contacts to get favorable outcomes. Its the same bullshit that has affected other teams over the decades. However, good to see the pats get some of it :p
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Except it has been well established for many many years that Courts will not intervene in collectively bargained contracts no matter how silly or ridiculous the outcome may be to outside observers. (See, Garvey)

There is a HUGE public policy reason for this stance and why it was so shocking to see the District Judge deviate from established legal principles.

Only reason there are offended Pats fans now is because a district judge ignored the law. His error was corrected. That is how it works.

No conspiracies--no contacts--no nothing. ;)
 
AmericanCrow said:
Or it is just well established law that the district judge deviated from and the appellate court corrected. It is hard admitting one erred on the legal standard that would eventually be used to uphold the CBA and the commissioner's power. I understand. :)
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I'd like to agree with you but given the ruling of the Chief Justice and his absolute take down of the NFL, we both know this is not the end of proceedings.
 

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ausbacker said:
I'd like to agree with you but given the ruling of the Chief Justice and his absolute take down of the NFL, we both know this is not the end of proceedings.
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I will hit you with a quote that one of my law professors liked to say and which has held up pretty damn good 99.9% of the time:

A dissenting opinion is named as such for one very basic and very solid reason--it is the LOSING argument. ;)

Doesn't matter if God himself (or herself) comes down to write a dissenting opinion--it is still the argument that lost. :)

Good luck with an en banc hearing of the 2nd Circuit--even assuming they take the case up (and that is by no means guaranteed) you aren't going to find 6 of the remaining 10 Judges ignoring well established law.

That you CAN put the house down on. :thumbsu:
 
AmericanCrow said:
I will hit you with a quote that one of my law professors liked to say and which has held up pretty damn good 99.9% of the time:

A dissenting opinion is named as such for one very basic and very solid reason--it is the LOSING argument. ;)

Doesn't matter if God himself (or herself) comes down to write a dissenting opinion--it is still the argument that lost. :)

Good luck with an en banc hearing of the 2nd Circuit--even assuming they take the case up (and that is by no means guaranteed) you aren't going to find 6 of the remaining 10 Judges ignoring well established law.

That you CAN put the house down on. :thumbsu:
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The problem is, last time, you were fairly confident Berman would rule against Brady and provided a long list of reasons as to why. Ultimately, you were proven wrong and it moved on.

There's been talk Brady's team shat the bed during the appellate process. I disagree. I don't think his team was prepared for Clement, a respected lawyer, to lie in court because that's what he did, he lied, on multiple occasions. Hell, an amicus brief was forwarded to the courts outlining this and better still, in the ruling, these so called intellects couldn't even get a few simple facts right about the case.

I will be surprised if this is the end of it.
 
Tom Brady's appeal in the Second U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals argues that two judges who sided with the NFL to have Brady's suspension reinstated "got the law wrong."

Brady's team is asking the three judges who heard his initial case (two voted nay, one yay) to "rehear their arguments." "The panel decision stands in stark contrast with fundamental rules of labor law and undermines the rights of union members and employers alike," Brady attorney Theodore Olson wrote. "This court should grant rehearing or rehearing en banc." According to the Boston Herald, Brady has "told friends since January 2015 that he'll go to his grave believing he did nothing wrong" in the so-called Deflategate. On a personal note, we CAN'T WAIT for this whole thing to go away.


Source: Boston Herald
 
LicoriceAllsorts said:
Is Brady/the Pats guilty? Probably

Is this still stupid? Yes
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Well, actually, 21 professors just submitted an Amicus Brief to court effectively stating the NFL are a bunch of lying campaigners and science can easily explain the PSI drops based on the Ideal Gas Law alone. http://thewhitebronco.com/physics-professors-amicus-brief/

I mentioned earlier that I couldn't see the current state of affairs as being the end of it mainly because it has widespread implications for labour laws in the US. It will be interesting to see if the appeal en banc is granted however, on the back of the concussion study gerrymandering by the NFL, how the * can that corrupt, deceitful bastard in the top job keep his position? Surely by now the owners have to realise he's a poisonous toad. For all their billions, they really are disconnected fools.
 
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ausbacker said:
Well, actually, 21 professors just submitted an Amicus Brief to court effectively stating the NFL are a bunch of lying campaigners and science can easily explain the PSI drops based on the Ideal Gas Law alone. http://thewhitebronco.com/physics-professors-amicus-brief/

I mentioned earlier that I couldn't see the current state of affairs as being the end of it mainly because it has widespread implications for labour laws in the US. It will be interesting to see if the appeal en banc is granted however, on the back of the concussion study gerrymandering by the NFL, how the **** can that corrupt, deceitful bastard in the top job keep his position? Surely by now the owners have to realise he's a poisonous toad. For all their billions, they really are disconnected fools.
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I don't think the suspension has anything to do with deflated balls. It has all to do with two things:
1. Roger being an idiot- as in being himself.
2. Brady being an idiot for destroying his phone with lots of interesting content on it.

Since we can easily see that deflation of balls isn't on the list of the two most important items, then I think this appeal is just an expensive waste of time.
Neither side can back down, due to loss of power on one side and stubborn refusal to accept any punishment for depriving the world of those juicy pics on the other side.
 
LittleG said:
I don't think the suspension has anything to do with deflated balls. It has all to do with two things:
1. Roger being an idiot- as in being himself.
2. Brady being an idiot for destroying his phone with lots of interesting content on it.

Since we can easily see that deflation of balls isn't on the list of the two most important items, then I think this appeal is just an expensive waste of time.
Neither side can back down, due to loss of power on one side and stubborn refusal to accept any punishment for depriving the world of those juicy pics on the other side.
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From the outset, this has been a punish the Patriots at all costs job. The problem with point 2 is Brady turned over transcripts from his phone. He was advised by Wells the phone wasn't needed and duly, it was destroyed. Given we've seen what the NFL does with sensitive information (yes, your juicy pics), who can blame the guy for not trusting them (even if the phone was required).
 
ausbacker said:
The problem is, last time, you were fairly confident Berman would rule against Brady and provided a long list of reasons as to why. Ultimately, you were proven wrong and it moved on.

There's been talk Brady's team shat the bed during the appellate process. I disagree. I don't think his team was prepared for Clement, a respected lawyer, to lie in court because that's what he did, he lied, on multiple occasions. Hell, an amicus brief was forwarded to the courts outlining this and better still, in the ruling, these so called intellects couldn't even get a few simple facts right about the case.

I will be surprised if this is the end of it.
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Again, I expected the District Court Judge to follow well established law. Fact he was reversed speaks volumes.

I think you will find many, if not all, the reasons I laid out incorporated in the decision handed down in reversing the District Judge who got it completely and totally wrong. ;)
 
ausbacker said:
Well, actually, 21 professors just submitted an Amicus Brief to court effectively stating the NFL are a bunch of lying campaigners and science can easily explain the PSI drops based on the Ideal Gas Law alone. http://thewhitebronco.com/physics-professors-amicus-brief/

I mentioned earlier that I couldn't see the current state of affairs as being the end of it mainly because it has widespread implications for labour laws in the US. It will be interesting to see if the appeal en banc is granted however, on the back of the concussion study gerrymandering by the NFL, how the **** can that corrupt, deceitful bastard in the top job keep his position? Surely by now the owners have to realise he's a poisonous toad. For all their billions, they really are disconnected fools.
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You (very understandably) are missing the point of this case. It has NOTHING to do with deflated balls and how they did or did not get deflated. It has EVERYTHING to do with a collectively bargained agreement.

Courts will NOT interfere with collectively bargained agreements unless there is absolutely positively some earth shattering reason to do so. Even if they think that the arbitrator got it wrong--even if they think the punishment stinks--even if they don't like the process used to get a decision.

The District Court Judge went off the rails---which got all you Patriots guys/ anti-Goodell-ites excited (understandably) but he was clearly wrong. The dissent in the appeal is clearly wrong too. There is a reason 3 judges hear appeals....2 got it right and set it correct. The process worked.

The odds 6 other judges get it wrong out of the 10 left are the same as the Browns winning the Super Bowl this year.

Just deal with it....
 
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Commissioner Roger Goodell said there will be no settlement talks between the league and suspended QB Tom Brady.

Goodell said the courts will decide Brady's fate. The Second U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reinstated Brady's four-game ban in April, but Brady has asked the same court to rehear the case, claiming the two judges who sided against him "got the law wrong." This saga refuses to end.


Source: Mike Rodak on Twitter
 
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