New player roles in 2012

Blueboys7

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#51
Playing Jamison out of position gives others opportunities to develop. the lack of kpp options due to injury was a key reason for our form slump in 2011.

If Bower and Watson tear it up in the VFL, we should reward them. Moving Jamison to FF is a option if henderson continues to have an impact at chb.

No one is doubting Jamison's talent. But this thread is about depth - we need to nurture other defensive options should Henderson or Jamison injure themselves. While some may see Henderson as a forward, he was maturing nicely late in the year as a defender.
Jamison is our best defender, why would we move him?

If anything we'd be moving Henderson to CHF and having Bower/Watson support Jamo.

We can get by with Jamo taking the best forward and working hard on team defense. We can't get by with 1 key forward (an elite one yes, but we do not have one).
 

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Blueboys7

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#52
Gibbs was starting to show break out form towards the end of the season. Which is why so many people were pissed off that he was out injured for the wet toast final. If he had been playing, then we would have won.

I really think that he is ready to step up into the elite bracket properly next year instead of just skirting around the edges like he has done for the last couple of years.

His poise and vision are his key weapons and unlike his other fellow #1, he is not an inside/outside mid and should never be used in that role. He is an outside playmaker. He should be operating off the back of the square running forward while Murphy and Judd battle to get the ball and put it into his hands. And once the ball is in his hands, you know that something will happen.
I agree with most of this post except for the 'inside/outside' part.

He will develop an inside game IMO, he has the midfield height and should be building enough strength over this preseason. He has the smarts and skills, he should be given the chance in the midfield.

Having said that, he perhaps won't have the same balance between inside and outside play as Murphy does but he can be a contributor and win his own ball and clearances.

By all means, we should play to his strengths and use his sublime skill on the outside but this is how he improves to become an elite player, just as Murphy did.
 

Azul

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#53
Jamison is our best defender, why would we move him?

If anything we'd be moving Henderson to CHF and having Bower/Watson support Jamo.
Henderson is raw and honing his skills as a defender. Moving him forward just halts his development.

We can get by with Jamo taking the best forward and working hard on team defense.
This thinking is why we were never a chance to beat Hawthorn or Collingwood. Cloke/Dawes & Roughead/Franklin make a mess of our undersized backline. Unearthing 2 other Jamison-class defenders in a hurry is our only hope.

If Jamison plays 25 games a season we're in good shape. If he has another horror run with injuries we're back to square one. Trialling him as a forward allows others in the team to share the responsibility while ultimately allowing the coach to move him back 'for emergencies'.
 

pepalenko

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#54
Simon White - Forward
I remember being quite impressed with White in his first few games but he seemed to drop off a bit in 2011. Where does everyone see him in terms of in or out of best 22?
 

HARKER

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Thread starter #55
I remember being quite impressed with White in his first few games but he seemed to drop off a bit in 2011. Where does everyone see him in terms of in or out of best 22?
I just can't see any possible opening for White to play forward and only injuries to our mid sized backs will give him a chance to play.

Disciplined player, but Davies is already in front of him and he won't get a spot ahead of Duigan, Laidler or Russell.
White is not a key position player and even if played to that role he won't get a game ahead of Jamison, Henderson or Bower.
 

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#56
Gibbs was starting to show break out form towards the end of the season. Which is why so many people were pissed off that he was out injured for the wet toast final. If he had been playing, then we would have won.

I really think that he is ready to step up into the elite bracket properly next year instead of just skirting around the edges like he has done for the last couple of years.

His poise and vision are his key weapons and unlike his other fellow #1, he is not an inside/outside mid and should never be used in that role. He is an outside playmaker. He should be operating off the back of the square running forward while Murphy and Judd battle to get the ball and put it into his hands. And once the ball is in his hands, you know that something will happen.

I get what your saying... but id have to say I think he is alot more dangerous foward of centre.

He has an eye for the goals and also sets up plenty of other goals with his vision.

His natural ability is there on display for all. And no doubt he could float of the half back and be very damaging. But personally I think he will be even more damaging further up the ground as we saw quite a bit of later in the season
 

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Thread starter #57
It is somewhat unusual that a team vying for a top ladder spot has so many key position posts not quite nailed down as yet.

Using the spine as an example and other than Jamison at FB, we can't be sure as to who will command the other positions:

CHB: Most likely Henderson, but if Bower comes through without injury and back to 2009 form, he may release Hendo back to his rightful post up forward.

Centre (Inside Mid. Clearance player): Gibbs? Curnow? Robinson? Ellard?

CHF: Waite may be the first that comes to mind, but Henderson may come forward and is it possible that Kreuzer may be used here?

FF: Hampson, Mitchell or Kreuzer?
 

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#58
Agree with Yarran to a wing. His move back was good for his learning curve but love to see him closer to goals as well as the middle.

Bower as third tall and rebounder.

JR into the middle.

Gibbs to the centre.

Kruze to get a run in the midfield as well as the ruck.

Hammer at FF but also doing ruck work. WE use our three rucks according to the opposition ie against WC Hammer goes with NicNat etc

Walker more time in the midfield.
 

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#60
There have been glimpses of Gibbs going into the centre and dominating clearances (remember one game against Freo especially).

But, otherwise I agree. He can be used nearly anywhere and he couldbe amazingly damaging floating between mid and forward.
 

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#61
Henderson is raw and honing his skills as a defender. Moving him forward just halts his development.



This thinking is why we were never a chance to beat Hawthorn or Collingwood. Cloke/Dawes & Roughead/Franklin make a mess of our undersized backline. Unearthing 2 other Jamison-class defenders in a hurry is our only hope.

If Jamison plays 25 games a season we're in good shape. If he has another horror run with injuries we're back to square one. Trialling him as a forward allows others in the team to share the responsibility while ultimately allowing the coach to move him back 'for emergencies'.
You're kidding surely. You take our CLEARLY best defender and put him in the forwardline?

Its about as stupid as moving Buddy to FB because Gunston has come into the Hawthorn forwardline and needs to develop without having Buddy there to hinder.
 

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Azul

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#62
You're kidding surely. You take our CLEARLY best defender and put him in the forwardline?

Its about as stupid as moving Buddy to FB because Gunston has come into the Hawthorn forwardline and needs to develop without having Buddy there to hinder.
How I love bigfooty. Think laterally and you're labelled stupid by resident sages Sublime, Jeremias and a certain grumpy mod. :thumbsu:

Jamison will be needed for some difficult assignments in the backline. Equally we need to fast-track development of Watson and McCarthy as their form warrants.

Supposing Jamison misses half the season, do we fall back to the Thornton option? He's demonstrated that he hasn't been up to a key defensive role for 2 years. No - we're stuffed. Playing Jamison forward at times gives our youngsters valueable experience to cover when he's not there.

Shifting Henderson to the forward line if we have a surplus of defenders might seem the default option but not necessarily the bravest. He looked more and more comfortable down back as the year progressed and may have found his position.
 

Silvagnis

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#63
Joeseph for mine, kid is a rig and ready to play midfield and dominate, really looking forward to him having a breakout season:)
:thumbsu:

It's time we released the shackles and moved Joseph up the ground. Joseph could easily take Armfield's spot as a small forward/outside mid next year. AJ provides just as much as defensive pressure, intensity and speed as Army. The biggest positive is that Joseph has more footy smarts than Armfield. Loved the clutch goal he kicked against WC after he exploded out of the blocks from 50 and got smashed after his kick. AJ is better in the air than Armfield.

Joseph would also keep Ellard on his toes.

Could easily replace either player.
 

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#64
That was the best piece of play I've seen AJ do and it was important.

Colour me impressed :thumbsu:

He has his faults AJ... but there's no doubt he has something. He has speed to burn and is surprisingly good in the air, he's shown he can kick goals from 50 a couple times and otherwise pretty dangerous around the mid to forward line. I don't really want to see him deep in defensive 50 too often, his one on one defending can leave a bit to be desired and I'd rather see his offensive capabilities utilized.
 

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Thread starter #65
It's good to see the bump in faith we have in Joseph right now, considering most here had him bundled up as a delistee earlier in the year.
I don't see him as being that clearance player we're really looking for, though.

I tend to feel that role may go to Curnow or possibly even Russell with the intent of moving the ball onto Murphy, Gibbs and Judd.
It's interesting that we haven't yet found a way to protect Judd around the ball, so I'd be surprised if we didn't practice it in the off-season and that's where Russell may come into consideration.
 

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#66
It's interesting that we haven't yet found a way to protect Judd around the ball, so I'd be surprised if we didn't practice it in the off-season and that's where Russell may come into consideration.
Martin has two plans for the 2012 season: Help improve the Tigers and help protect teammate Cotchin from taggers.
"That's what I'll be doing, especially in the midfield, help him out, give him the ball, smash into the taggers," he said.
From the HUN today. Would someone from Carlton please put their hand up to do this for Juddy. JR would do just fine. He is big and strong and has shown a bit of an appetite for a challenge.

The last four games of the season were horrible in regard to the treatment of Judd by tag-teams and the way they got away with it. Against the Hawks I cringed. :mad:
 
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#67
I think there will be a lot of work put into blocking for Judd. But I also think that if Murphy and Gibbs float through the middle and some of our other players step up, they can't tag everyone and we should still come out on top. Eg: Judd getting extra attention from the opposition can free up Murphy, Robinson etc to be the playmakers.
 

HARKER

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Thread starter #69
Anyone curious if Duigan could be a strong HF a bit like Hamill?
Not in the slightest TB25
Made his home down back and that's where he'll stay.

We'll be hoping that Collins comes up and fills that role.
Gibbs was terrific in the last half of the season but may be used as more of a mid.
Collins has a much better turning circle and kick than Duigan. Is quicker with his disposal and can also take a mark, believe it or not.
 
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#70
agree with the comments regarding joseph, wrote all that in my player review, needs to in the midfield more and maybe as a defensive half forward flank, shutting down oppisition rebounding players.
 

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#71
How I love bigfooty. Think laterally and you're labelled stupid by resident sages Sublime, Jeremias and a certain grumpy mod. :thumbsu:

Jamison will be needed for some difficult assignments in the backline. Equally we need to fast-track development of Watson and McCarthy as their form warrants.

Supposing Jamison misses half the season, do we fall back to the Thornton option? He's demonstrated that he hasn't been up to a key defensive role for 2 years. No - we're stuffed. Playing Jamison forward at times gives our youngsters valueable experience to cover when he's not there.

Shifting Henderson to the forward line if we have a surplus of defenders might seem the default option but not necessarily the bravest. He looked more and more comfortable down back as the year progressed and may have found his position.
Why such a need to go for the bravest option as you call it. You play your best players in their best positions, period. If Jamo gets injured, then we play our next best option. I'm not sure if you mean to play Jamison for a game at a time down forward, or just to swing forward for a quarter at a time, either way it just doesn't make sense.

If Jamo is getting thrown around, then so is someone else. The only time we'll see him in the forwardline is if he's injured like the WC game, or we're absolutely desperate to need to try something in a game. You don't move your best defender just to give someone else experience.

I never said you're stupid by the way, just your idea.
 

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#72
How I love bigfooty. Think laterally and you're labelled stupid by resident sages Sublime, Jeremias and a certain grumpy mod. :thumbsu:

Jamison will be needed for some difficult assignments in the backline. Equally we need to fast-track development of Watson and McCarthy as their form warrants.

Supposing Jamison misses half the season, do we fall back to the Thornton option? He's demonstrated that he hasn't been up to a key defensive role for 2 years. No - we're stuffed. Playing Jamison forward at times gives our youngsters valueable experience to cover when he's not there.

Shifting Henderson to the forward line if we have a surplus of defenders might seem the default option but not necessarily the bravest. He looked more and more comfortable down back as the year progressed and may have found his position.
There is one major flaw with shifting Jamo forward every now and then and that is flirting with form.

Jamo is our best defender and the attack out of the backline that he provided this year was very important to us. If we keep shifting him forward and back then that makes it very hard for him to make his position as FB his own. Form is built through getting confidence in your position and understanding how to perform and improve your performance in your designated role.

He is the man at FB, we do not have any better options. Let him get his focus and confidence in the position that he knows best.
 

Silvagnis

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#73
That was the best piece of play I've seen AJ do and it was important.

Colour me impressed :thumbsu:

He has his faults AJ... but there's no doubt he has something. He has speed to burn and is surprisingly good in the air, he's shown he can kick goals from 50 a couple times and otherwise pretty dangerous around the mid to forward line. I don't really want to see him deep in defensive 50 too often, his one on one defending can leave a bit to be desired and I'd rather see his offensive capabilities utilized.
You can't have poor to average kicks in your backline, but you can get away with them up the ground. Joseph can kick a goal after his efforts against Melbourne, Geelong and Essendon. Loved how he broke the lines against Sydney last year and hit Warnock with a perfect pass. He's better than Armfield who is an athlete. There's room for AJ. Even Geelong and Collingwood aren't a team of champions with flawless players on every line. Hunt can kick and is built like a battleship, yet he hears more footsteps than Houlihan. Toovey is quick and can lock a player down, but burns it more than any of our backmen.
 

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Thread starter #74
He is the man at FB, we do not have any better options. Let him get his focus and confidence in the position that he knows best.
It's easy to underestimate the importance of a cohesive back line.
Jamison is the general right now and has quickly been accompanied by some very strong cohorts in Duigan, Russell and Laidler.
There is no need to mess with a working line-up unless absolutely necessary.
I personally don't care if Watson, McCarthy and McInnes don't see a game this year if a premiership is available.
They'll have their time.
 

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#75
You can't have poor to average kicks in your backline, but you can get away with them up the ground. Joseph can kick a goal after his efforts against Melbourne, Geelong and Essendon. Loved how he broke the lines against Sydney last year and hit Warnock with a perfect pass. He's better than Armfield who is an athlete. There's room for AJ. Even Geelong and Collingwood aren't a team of champions with flawless players on every line. Hunt can kick and is built like a battleship, yet he hears more footsteps than Houlihan. Toovey is quick and can lock a player down, but burns it more than any of our backmen.
Your anti-Armyness is showing TG. Army has shown all these things that AJ has, there's not much between them in terms of disposal.
I think we have room for both, though both will perpetually remain fringe.
 
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