Guess it all depends on the coaches tactics on the day. One could push to the contest and the other could push back to defend before starting their attack.
Strategy New Rules to help Pies
- Thread starter Forethought
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Definitely but compared to the current rules where every player outside the square is allowed to be right on the line.....
Now there are only four players who can do that. I think more often than not they will run into the centre when the ball is bounced .
jackcass
Cancelled
10k Posts
Magpie Service Medal
Collingwood - Josh Daicos Player Sponsor 2021
Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020
Collingwood Magpies AFLW - Sarah Rowe Player Sponsor 2019
Yep, that's it. A wingman can start anywhere along the wing edge of the centre square. I think how teams structure/manipulate that will depend on how well their midfield group goes and who the opposition wings are.
Whether wingers are instructed to run at the footy or behind it of forward of it will of course depend on the state of the game, the bounce of the ball, and their own intuition.
But what we do know as fact is they will be first to the contest if the ball doesn’t clear at the bounce, given they now have a significant head start on the forwards and backs stuck in the forward 50.
I can’t see it changing much, once the ball is bounced it will still be 36 players following the ball around.
A very good point.
Which begs the question is 6/6/6 only applicable after the 1st bounce after a goal - or ALL bounces until the ball is out of the square after that goal.
If the former I can see your point is correct - kill the 1st contest and then reset to a a defensive outnumber, particularly late in the game.
Its definitely a loop hole.
I think the data IS instructive and the need to play 2 additional talls (Lynch and another tall to compete in the ruck now that Grigg experiment is over) will mean the rule and structure changes in combination have a major impact on RICH.
But there’s only three midfielders and a ruckman in the middle available to actually kill that contest and only two wingers close enough to get there quickly. The likelihood is that there will be more clean centre clearances than in the past.
jackcass
Cancelled
10k Posts
Magpie Service Medal
Collingwood - Josh Daicos Player Sponsor 2021
Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020
Collingwood Magpies AFLW - Sarah Rowe Player Sponsor 2019
As I stated, don't think you can take too much from the piece cited in MagpieJoel's post. It was suggesting a shift to 6-6-6 will most influence Richmond as they started with that structure at centre bounces just 3.4% of the time in 2018. It's a long bow.
It's not the 6-6-6 rule that will lead them to play a genuine 2nd ruck option, it's the changing ruck rules. Not to mention Grundy and Cox destroying Grigg in the PF.
It's also not the 6-6-6 that has lead them to recruit Lynch and change their F50 structure. They've long tried to find a suitable 2nd tall to partner Jack and were forced to play the smaller forward structure through injury to taller option like Griffiths, and the lack of or slow development (for whatever reason) in others like Soldo, Elton, Moore and Chol. Recruited Balta, Coleman-Jones and Miller in 2017 so they've obviously been looking for alternatives. Lynch (if he gets on the park) just offers some immediate options while these others continue to develop.
Happy for you to think otherwise.
Saintly Viewed
.
30k Posts
10k Posts
Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020
Collingwood Magpies - Brayden Sier 2019 Player Sponsor
Collingwood - Jaidyn Stephenson Player Sponsor 2018
Collingwood Board Goal Kicking Tip Comp
Collingwood - Matthew Scharenberg Player Sponsor 2017
Shiny Penny
- Aug 10, 2015
- 48,085
- 39,985
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Never mind 6 6 6 helping us,
Maybe they could just interpret correctly the interference rule when Cox is man handled?
Maybe they could just interpret correctly the interference rule when Cox is man handled?
jackcass
Cancelled
10k Posts
Magpie Service Medal
Collingwood - Josh Daicos Player Sponsor 2021
Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020
Collingwood Magpies AFLW - Sarah Rowe Player Sponsor 2019
I'll defer to your expertise on the man-handling of Cox.
Saintly Viewed
.
30k Posts
10k Posts
Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020
Collingwood Magpies - Brayden Sier 2019 Player Sponsor
Collingwood - Jaidyn Stephenson Player Sponsor 2018
Collingwood Board Goal Kicking Tip Comp
Collingwood - Matthew Scharenberg Player Sponsor 2017
Shiny Penny
- Aug 10, 2015
- 48,085
- 39,985
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
I’m sure others around here are far better equipped for such masonry...
I think you misunderstood or maybe I wasn’t clear.
Rich will be disadvantaged by the 6/6/6 given the stats show they virtually never play that formation. And unrelated to this is the 2 additional talls likely to be played each week.
They are separate issues that in combination will greatly impact Richonds ability to maintain their dominance.
Their “chaos football” strength has been decimated IMO.
Having watches a few of the JLT games I started writing some thoughts on the rule changes and how they would impact us, that was before I knew this thread existed (almost like it as much as the squiggle threads of old!). Some great analysis here and I think Forethought's OP and follow up answers have been mostly spot on. Obviously tomorrow will be fairly indicative on what the rules mean for us, has anyone got any further observations after watching a few games?
My thoughts per below;
New Kick in Rule
Exiting 50
- Exiting 50 had been a weakness for quite a while, the rule change helps us by putting us further away from goal should we fail to hit a target, and the wider spread of options available from the kick in that are likely to be 1x1 contests probably helps us also. When we were winning 1x1s and "on the loose" last year we were able to go forward and create scoring opportunities using our speed "out the back". The likes of Cox, Grundy and Brody M getting up on the wing and winning or halving 1x1s for our runners sparks memories of us playing fast attacking football last year. The rule change probably encourages this sort of attacking play more often, but from what I've seen in the JLT thus far, teams are keeping their forwards deeper in the F50 so the space that we were attacking into last year may not be as open this year, but there have been a lot of goals scored with "checker" type ball movement, with a final long kick into a F50 target. For us it could be Cox, Chekers, or dare i say it - Elliot who are the big winners of this rule (i.e. faster F50 entries, less 3rd man up defenders spoiling)
Defending opposition exiting 50
- Defending opposition D50 exit was an area of strength for us last year. Our forward pressure , tackling, running to outnumber and then handballing/running the ball forward into a disorganised opposition defensive setup was critical to our success. The rule change should effectively negate this forward pressure tactic. No team has really showed their hand as far as tactics when defending a D50 exit, it seems that teams are banking on winning their 1x1s. The only tactic that I can see here is to try win back the ball through 1x1s in the middle of the ground, but to also flood 1 or 2 extra back to our D50 should our mids lose their contest (the flooding is probably required at the time of the kick in).
Overall - this rule feels like a loss for us, we had come to grips with exiting D50 so this was less of a weakness last year. While potentially losing our F50 pressure tactic hurts.
6-6-6 rule
In Attack
- Noting that in the JLT there have been lots of "clean" centre clearances that result in relatively clean F50 possession for the attacking team. Forwards are getting 1x1s either on the lead or on their head, defensive 3rd man up has not been as prominent. This rule should be a huge win for us given what should be a very strong mids/clearance cohort, coupled with Forwards who excel in 1x1s (Coxy, Brody M and Elliot for starters). Coxy is surely the main benefactor given most defenders will panic at taking him on 1x1 with his height, so he is a fair chance of taking the mark OR getting the free (cheating scumps permitting).
In Defence
- We have a pretty good set of mids and of course Grundy, so we should be winning more centre clearances than our opposition. Though I do note that we have not translated our star studded midfield into the type of dominance that the names suggest. So when we lose the contest, what does this mean? 1x1s for our defenders and likely no 3rd man up to assist them. I think this is OK for us, our defence has dealt with what on paper would be stronger attacking lineups for all of last season, often restricting opposition scores at a better than average percentage, even when the opposition was smashing us with repeat F50 entries.
Overall - I think we need to get Dunny back ASAP, while the addition of Moore to the defensive unit will be interesting, but overall we have the marking defenders (add Howe and Landon to Dunn and Moore) to help win enough 1x1s to have us ahead or at least break even on the defensive end. While on the attacking side, I feel like our mid unit, and marking forwards will relish these changes.
TLDR; from what I'm seeing in the JLT, the new kickout rule probably leaves us a bit weaker on account of our forward press being somewhat negated, we do gain a little through easier D50 exits, but we would not gain as much as we lose on defending D50. The 6-6-6 rule should help us quite a bit given our strong ruck and clearance mids, strong marking options down back (should we lose the clearance), and our strong marking options up forward who should excel given they should have more 1x1 opportunities with no 3rd man up spoiling the contest.
My thoughts per below;
New Kick in Rule
Exiting 50
- Exiting 50 had been a weakness for quite a while, the rule change helps us by putting us further away from goal should we fail to hit a target, and the wider spread of options available from the kick in that are likely to be 1x1 contests probably helps us also. When we were winning 1x1s and "on the loose" last year we were able to go forward and create scoring opportunities using our speed "out the back". The likes of Cox, Grundy and Brody M getting up on the wing and winning or halving 1x1s for our runners sparks memories of us playing fast attacking football last year. The rule change probably encourages this sort of attacking play more often, but from what I've seen in the JLT thus far, teams are keeping their forwards deeper in the F50 so the space that we were attacking into last year may not be as open this year, but there have been a lot of goals scored with "checker" type ball movement, with a final long kick into a F50 target. For us it could be Cox, Chekers, or dare i say it - Elliot who are the big winners of this rule (i.e. faster F50 entries, less 3rd man up defenders spoiling)
Defending opposition exiting 50
- Defending opposition D50 exit was an area of strength for us last year. Our forward pressure , tackling, running to outnumber and then handballing/running the ball forward into a disorganised opposition defensive setup was critical to our success. The rule change should effectively negate this forward pressure tactic. No team has really showed their hand as far as tactics when defending a D50 exit, it seems that teams are banking on winning their 1x1s. The only tactic that I can see here is to try win back the ball through 1x1s in the middle of the ground, but to also flood 1 or 2 extra back to our D50 should our mids lose their contest (the flooding is probably required at the time of the kick in).
Overall - this rule feels like a loss for us, we had come to grips with exiting D50 so this was less of a weakness last year. While potentially losing our F50 pressure tactic hurts.
6-6-6 rule
In Attack
- Noting that in the JLT there have been lots of "clean" centre clearances that result in relatively clean F50 possession for the attacking team. Forwards are getting 1x1s either on the lead or on their head, defensive 3rd man up has not been as prominent. This rule should be a huge win for us given what should be a very strong mids/clearance cohort, coupled with Forwards who excel in 1x1s (Coxy, Brody M and Elliot for starters). Coxy is surely the main benefactor given most defenders will panic at taking him on 1x1 with his height, so he is a fair chance of taking the mark OR getting the free (cheating scumps permitting).
In Defence
- We have a pretty good set of mids and of course Grundy, so we should be winning more centre clearances than our opposition. Though I do note that we have not translated our star studded midfield into the type of dominance that the names suggest. So when we lose the contest, what does this mean? 1x1s for our defenders and likely no 3rd man up to assist them. I think this is OK for us, our defence has dealt with what on paper would be stronger attacking lineups for all of last season, often restricting opposition scores at a better than average percentage, even when the opposition was smashing us with repeat F50 entries.
Overall - I think we need to get Dunny back ASAP, while the addition of Moore to the defensive unit will be interesting, but overall we have the marking defenders (add Howe and Landon to Dunn and Moore) to help win enough 1x1s to have us ahead or at least break even on the defensive end. While on the attacking side, I feel like our mid unit, and marking forwards will relish these changes.
TLDR; from what I'm seeing in the JLT, the new kickout rule probably leaves us a bit weaker on account of our forward press being somewhat negated, we do gain a little through easier D50 exits, but we would not gain as much as we lose on defending D50. The 6-6-6 rule should help us quite a bit given our strong ruck and clearance mids, strong marking options down back (should we lose the clearance), and our strong marking options up forward who should excel given they should have more 1x1 opportunities with no 3rd man up spoiling the contest.
Agree with this, I think D50 floods (i.e. conceding the front half) could be a possibility for the weaker 1x1 teams (though that presumes that they are able score behinds to start with!!!).
There has been a considerable number of goal runs in the JLT, often a result of teams dominating the centre clearances (dont have stats on this, just the feel from watching/listening to games). The development of tactics to stem these goal runs will be interesting through the year. I like the thought of your concession of a free (hate the optics and mentality of it though). I think the more likely outcome will be a development of defensive tactics at the centre bounces, as another poster mentioned for example, sending nullifying (greenwood) type players into the centre rather than your attacking clearance players).
Again, as another poster had speculated, the rules seem to advantage good teams, and punish poor teams. Win your 1x1s (hopefully thats a Yay for us) and you will be rewarded more now than ever, or at least more than you have been rewarded over the past 10-15 years.
Since the rules changed preventing flooding at centre bounces and since we topped up a Grand Final list with Dayne Beams. I think it also helps that our second ruckman is actually capable at the craft (arguably Cox is better than Grundy) and isnt a part time midget like Richmond have been getting away with for a few years.
