The new Shiel deal & his kicking

[Bombfire]

Actually it appears pratt WAS personally fined as he was proven to be the approver of the overarching understanding which led to the collusion.

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-relea...es-against-visy-calls-for-stronger-cartel-law

What a great bloke.

I echo the sentiments of earlier posters- why on earth people's football allegiance transfers blindly across to the business conduct of club connections has me baffled.

Simpleton lemmings following the leader off the cliff I suppose.

More like overarching fraud.

 

[Malifice]

You mean the judd deal that WASN'T included in the salary cap for the first 5 years??!!

Poor carlton/visy only got to pay juddy ~$1.2million outside the cap before the AFL put an end to the party.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...ks-down-on-judd-visy-deal-20121116-29fo0.html

Yeah that one.

 

[The_Steadier]

Y'know, all this talk of "cmon it's only 20k" got me thinking....

If I worked for the bombers and was in charge of getting dyl some serious coin on the side, without it being included in the cap.....

I reckon a pretty smart thing to do would be to give young dyl a nominal amount to become an official employee of a company which has access to a lot of valuable investment information.

Then perhaps young dyl (in the ordinary course of his duties as an employee of said company) might regularly stumble across/get hand fed information about some highly lucrative investment opportunities.

I would be facinated to see how young dyl's personal property portfolio performs while he's making his puny 20k/year.

My hunch is he will do very well for himself backing plenty of winners that make him a LOT more than 20k/year while he is at the bombers.

This plan wouldnt be devoid of all financial risk for young Dyl of course- but I'm sure his soon to be rapidly expanding investment portfolio is in good hands

 

[davis_756]

Since when is “learning the property game” an income earning job?

He will be "learning how" to invest his own money into some pre-arranged easy flips that add an extra 200k a year to his income be it now or after football, we all know how this s**t works by now surely.

 

[davis_756]

Y'know, all this talk of "cmon it's only 20k" got me thinking....

If I worked for the bombers and was in charge of getting dyl some serious coin on the side, without it being included in the cap.....

I reckon a pretty smart thing to do would be to give young dyl a nominal amount to become an official employee of a company which has access to a lot of valuable investment information.

Then perhaps young dyl (in the ordinary course of his duties as an employee of said company) might regularly stumble across/get hand fed information about some highly lucrative investment opportunities.

I would be facinated to see how young dyl's personal property portfolio performs while he's making his puny 20k/year.

My hunch is he will do very well for himself backing plenty of winners that make him a LOT more than 20k/year while he is at the bombers.

This plan wouldnt be devoid of all financial risk for young Dyl of course- but I'm sure his soon to be rapidly expanding investment portfolio is in good hands

This x10,000

 

[Malifice]

He will be "learning how" to invest his own money into some pre-arranged easy flips that add an extra 200k a year to his income be it now or after football, we all know how this s**t works by now surely.

Been happening in the West for years also. The Eagles blokes are very well looked after.

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

“In the two-year period to late 1999 both Visy and Amcor had incurred significant trading losses due in part to a price war between them. The overarching understanding was a measure to reduce the intense competition between the two firms and to “increase CFP prices to more realistic levels”.

That document supports everything I’ve said. The collusion was about returning prices to realistic levels. A goal that in itself, is perfectly fair and reasonable when you’re suffering trading losses. The achievement of the goal is neither here nor there for customer. It’s not reasonable to expect your suppliers to wear losses in order to keep getting your product on the cheap, so price increases are not only fair, they should be expected.

It was suggested that the price of Visy’s cardboard actually fell in inflation-adjusted terms, as they kept stealing AMCOR customers anyway and increasing their market share, which is why the AMCOR exec called it a Clayton’s cartel.

Nah, you're only telling the story of them making losses. Sure they did lose a lot competing, but this is capitalism and the environment they chose to work in. If they didn't like it they could p*ss off somewhere else (dunno go Russia perhaps) but no they instead broke the law to circumvent their losses.

The second part of your argument is that the cartel didn't negatively impact consumers. An Amcors execs opinion is just that I'm afraid and a pretty biased one at that. I much prefer the judges determination which clearly demonstrated businesses and resulting consumers were negatively impacted. Not sure how else this could be argued....

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Y'know, all this talk of "cmon it's only 20k" got me thinking....

If I worked for the bombers and was in charge of getting dyl some serious coin on the side, without it being included in the cap.....

I reckon a pretty smart thing to do would be to give young dyl a nominal amount to become an official employee of a company which has access to a lot of valuable investment information.

Then perhaps young dyl (in the ordinary course of his duties as an employee of said company) might regularly stumble across/get hand fed information about some highly lucrative investment opportunities.

I would be facinated to see how young dyl's personal property portfolio performs while he's making his puny 20k/year.

My hunch is he will do very well for himself backing plenty of winners that make him a LOT more than 20k/year while he is at the bombers.

This plan wouldnt be devoid of all financial risk for young Dyl of course- but I'm sure his soon to be rapidly expanding investment portfolio is in good hands

And the problem is?

 

[The_Steadier]

And the problem is?

It makes a mockery of, and runs completely at odds with, the salary cap and the soft cap on football dept spending.

It allows non football (read purely financial) interests to have a direct impact on onfield performance.

Have you read Animal Farm?

All animals are equal.... but some animals are more equal than others.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

It makes a mockery of, and runs completely at odds with, the salary cap and the soft cap on football dept spending.

It allows non football (read purely financial) interests to have a direct impact on onfield performance.

Have you read Animal Farm?

All animals are equal.... but some animals are more equal than others.

Ok so we'll ban players from educational institutions cos they might learn something financially useful later in life?

 

[The_Steadier]

Ok so we'll ban players from educational institutions cos they might learn something financially useful later in life?

Shiel didn't enrol at Homesglen TAFE mate.

He took a confected, nugatory gig at his new clubs money making factory.

Throwing out absurd strawman propositions shows how weak your argument is

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Shiel didn't enrol at Homesglen TAFE mate.

He took a confected, nugatory gig at his new clubs money making factory.

Throwing out absurd strawman propositions shows how weak your argument is

Pfft
I took your "argument" a very small step to it's logical absurdity. Now you've gone further out there.

 

[The_Steadier]

Pfft
I took your "argument" a very small step to it's logical absurdity. Now you've gone further out there.

Hold the phone- i threw out a hypothetical hunch about shiels 20k job just being a front for getting him rich investments outside the salary cap .... and you said 'what's the problem with that?'
Right?

So clear this up for me- if my hunch is correct- you have no issue with that kind of arrangement right?
Where a player takes a token title in exchange for inside info likely to net them plenty of cash?

 

[Kummerspeck]

During the 2013 season, Andy Demetriou was quite open about Franklin being eligible for "ambassador" payments if he chose to work hard for it and be the face of AFL footy in Sydney/NSW

It was a financial inducement outside of the salary cap to leave Hawthorn (and coming from the AFL, if ya don't mind... How is a club supposed to compete with the AFL and stay within the rules? Franklin was a restricted free agent, but there was never a chance that Hawthorn could've matched the money on offer while staying within the rules and playing the AFL's rigged game)

Buddy's 10 year deal with Sydney wasn't the only deal he signed.

long-winded anti-AFL rant & melt over Buddy

Spoiler

Of course, at the time, when Demetriou spoke about Buddy becoming a potential AFL ambassador, we all thought he meant Buddy following the Gary Ablett path and becoming the superstar for the AFL's start-up franchise. The way Franklin pulled a swifty on Hawthorn and the AFL and chose the Swans leads me to think deals were made, contracts were signed and Buddy got the best of both worlds. The fact he has been used so heavily in the promotion of the game in Sydney (to the exclusion of every other player) gives me no reason to think he isn't getting huuuuge money from AFL on the side.

The AFL paid MILLIONS to Karmichael Hunt and Israel Folau, for f**k's sake... Why wouldn't they pay the game's most exciting & marketable superstar to play for one of their Sydney franchises? Plugger & AFL did exactly the same thing in the mid 90's. There was his playing contract which was big. And then there was the massive money he got on the side from the AFL which set him up for life.

Ablett got $2 million a year to play for the AFL Suns. Buddy could've got at least that much to play for the AFL Giants. So why would he choose to play for $800k-$1mill over the first few years of his "mega" contract? It makes no sense. Unless he was also getting an extra $1mill a season from the AFL (or via murky 3rd party deals)

Spoiler

Okay, what are the deals he's on outside the cap?

 

[theyellowsash]

Shiel will actually earn his money unlike Chris judd.

You'd hope so cause he isn't earning the money on the field

 

[Hollow Knight]

Imagine cheating the salary cap on a player who single handedly cost you 4 points on ANZAC Day.

 

[Knox Harrington]

Imagine cheating the salary cap on a player who single handedly cost you 4 points on ANZAC Day.

Imagine if your club was an irrelevant basket case.

Keep trying Brisbane one day you'll get to play in front of more than three men and a dog.

 

[Loken]

Imagine cheating the salary cap on a player who single handedly cost you 4 points on ANZAC Day.

Wait, are Mods allowed to not only lie but also speak s**t?

I'm newish here but i thought Mods would have to set an example.

Please explain?

 

[Pendles!]

Imagine if your club was an irrelevant basket case.

Keep trying Brisbane one day you'll get to play in front of more than three men and a dog.

You say it like Essendon haven't been an irrelevant basket case for 15 years.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Wait, are Mods allowed to not only lie but also speak s**t?

I'm newish here but i thought Mods would have to set an example.

Please explain?

Welcome new guy.

 

[Knox Harrington]

You say it like Essendon haven't been an irrelevant basket case for 15 years.

Keep ducking tackles pendles.

And we aren't irrelevant, we are the second most important club in Melbourne behind you guys.

 

[Pendles!]

Keep ducking tackles pendles.

And we aren't irrelevant, we are the second most important club in Melbourne behind you guys.

Spoken like a true Essendon fan.

 

[Loken]

Welcome new guy.

Oh, so you are too much of a coward to explain or back up your statement?

I asked you a legitimate question.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Oh, so you are too much of a coward to explain or back up your statement?

I asked you a legitimate question.

They don't call him TheBrownFlog for nothing, bro. You get used to it tho.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Oh, so you are too much of a coward to explain or back up your statement?

I asked you a legitimate question.

I am unaware that Chief has rescinded his long-standing policy of moderators being entitled to have opinions like everyone else. In any case, if you think it's a moderation issue (on a board I don't moderate) rather than a case of you simply not liking what a poster has said, the rules encourage you to discuss it with admin one-on-one rather than whinging about it publicly.

Returning to the topic of opinions I have long held the opinion that heartland clubs systematically rort the cap by leveraging third party payments. The AFL handwaving it doesn't change my opinion on that whatsoever. Just like their handwaving of the Demons tanking issue doesn't constitute innocence either. The Shied deal is just a continuation of such rorts according to my well honed nose for VFL shenanigans.

There are many other posters in this thread who also believe that the Shiel deal doesn't pass the sniff test. Their status as mdoerator or non-moderator in inconsequential.