New Stadium required

[The_Reaper]

It won't help, we'd then need a bigger ground than Etihad to hold the crowd for the big games.
Regional Centre's suck, Imagine ( in the future ) the Darwin team travelling to melbourne, then needing to get on a bus to Bendigo, ( though Wadonga would be a great option for something like Nth vs GWS ).

It seems fine for West Coast and Freo to get a plane to Melbourne and then a play to Tassie though?

There are direct flights from Melbourne to Albury-Wodonga.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It seems fine for West Coast and Freo to get a plane to Melbourne and then a play to Tassie though?

There are direct flights from Melbourne to Albury-Wodonga.

Yeah I dont really see it as "fine" for West Coast to go to Tassie really either.

I agree'd with your regarding Albury though.
A match like North vs GWS will be pretty pathetic in melbourne.

a) There is a pretty big Kangaroo's following up near Wagga.
b) The recent NAB game at Wangaratta proved the level of interest in the general area.
c). Direct (regular ) air transport from both Sydney and Melbourne.

Not sure that they wouldn't have to build a new stadium there from scratch though.

It would be a far more sucessful event than any of the Canberra games, and rather than tackling Rugby League (sic) head on it would be chipping away at the edges.

BUUT is there a need for a 25000 seat stadium at Albury apart from a couple of AFL games a year.

 

[jd1991]

It won't help, we'd then need a bigger ground than Etihad to hold the crowd for the big games.
Regional Centre's suck, Imagine ( in the future ) the Darwin team travelling to melbourne, then needing to get on a bus to Bendigo, ( though Wadonga would be a great option for something like Nth vs GWS ).

I agree - thats why scheduling the bigger games for MCG occurs now (but not always - based on the AFL agreement with Eitihad to provide a certain number of marquee type games)

We see now, many interstate sides rarely play at the MCG during the H&A season as these games are more often scheduled for Eitihad.

 

[Inferno]

I actually used to go to the Baseball a bit in Perth, ( started off when they were giving away free tickets ) at the WACA and the Baseball park there.
Tried in when I moved to vic, but the altomsphere and journey out there wasn't the same.
For every reason Waverly failed, Altona would fail.

Maybe that's to do with the fact that the baseball stadium is small and it's not a well supported sport. Certainly I don't get a feeling of a lack of atmosphere down at Geelong considering the stadiums would be roughly equal size, and keep in mind that Altona would be closer and/or easier to get to then Etihad for plenty of Dogs and Roos supporters.

Imo Waverley's biggest failure was the lack of infrastructure, in particular public transport. It's something which would be much, much easier and cheaper to fix for a stadium in Altona.

 

[catters05]

Melbourne needs a 30K stadium in that e-Gate location, a boutique stadium.

No point building a stadium bigger then Etihad when you have the MCG.

The AFL needs to go the other way for the cycle of when clubs are struggling. Too focused on the bigger crowds, I would be more focused on turning the 15-25K crowd groups into 30K crowds in an awesome boutique footy ground. Lots of little corporate boxes, and a real surburban feel to it.

A club like North Melbourne would really prosper, ala Geelong with Kardinia Park. We all put too much focus on them due to their lower crowd numbers, so we target North, because the ground looks empty and rubbish.

As clubs get stronger they utilize the bigger stadiums and same with clubs that are struggling a bit they utilize the smaller ground.

So IMO 9 Clubs in Melbourne, 3 Stadiums.........30K/55K/100K.......make it happen AFL.

AFL will own Etihad soon, so the cost to clubs will come down, also gives opportunity for AFL to make money out of renting Etihad to other sports/events etc, extra revenue.

Also the AFL could allow the cricket and VFL to use that ground, and thus not having to use etihad for cricket and allowing more concerts etc on it......

 

[Kwality]

Melbourne needs a 30K stadium in that e-Gate location, a boutique stadium.

No point building a stadium bigger then Etihad when you have the MCG.

The AFL needs to go the other way for the cycle of when clubs are struggling. Too focused on the bigger crowds, I would be more focused on turning the 15-25K crowd groups into 30K crowds in an awesome boutique footy ground. Lots of little corporate boxes, and a real surburban feel to it.

A club like North Melbourne would really prosper, ala Geelong with Kardinia Park. We all put too much focus on them due to their lower crowd numbers, so we target North, because the ground looks empty and rubbish.

As clubs get stronger they utilize the bigger stadiums and same with clubs that are struggling a bit they utilize the smaller ground.

So IMO 9 Clubs in Melbourne, 3 Stadiums.........30K/55K/100K.......make it happen AFL.

AFL will own Etihad soon, so the cost to clubs will come down, also gives opportunity for AFL to make money out of renting Etihad to other sports/events etc, extra revenue.

Also the AFL could allow the cricket and VFL to use that ground, and thus not having to use etihad for cricket and allowing more concerts etc on it......

A suburban feel, what absolute nonsense, its about an ability to turn a profit .

When the AFL take over Docklands it will be 25 years old & the current owners will run it down as far as the sale contract allows, it will be run down. Its not like the MCG where the Vic taxpayers fund much of the upgrades.

 

[R00StaR]

E-Gate would be handy atm and given the expected population boom of Melbourne and the huge upgrades planned for North Melbourne (the suburb) it wouldnt be out of place.

However with that population boom and larger Vic clubs already pushing 50-70k members one would hope the smaller clubs might catch up a bit. Easier parking, seating and less sell outs ect.

Docklands as a clean stadium would be economically viable for smaller crowds just as any other clean stadium would be. Perhaps the big V clubs play interstate teams there rather than the G and smaller clubs play some regional games still (such as Ballarat for North).

Theres 9 Melbourne based teams (Geelong is playing 8 games this year in Geelong), once the comp expands to 20 teams there'll only be 4-5 games per week in Melbourne including any regional games. 2 stadiums is plenty for that. Once the AFL owns Docklands the Vic clubs will thrive, ideally they'll buy it out early. Apparently the AFL were in negations not long ago.

 

[Underarm]

quality post.

The biggest argument people come up with for having a smaller stadium is the low crowds and poor stadium deals.

A new stadium is going to have poor stadium deals for the years until it is paid off. thats not going to change.

teams like Bulldogs, Saints, Kangaroos are going to pull sub 40k crowds wherever they play. a 'boutique' stadium in the Burbs with 'good parking' easy to get to by PT is still not going to be anything close to the facilities at Etihad which couldnt be closer to central PT.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

quality post.

The biggest argument people come up with for having a smaller stadium is the low crowds and poor stadium deals.

A new stadium is going to have poor stadium deals for the years until it is paid off. thats not going to change.

teams like Bulldogs, Saints, Kangaroos are going to pull sub 40k crowds wherever they play. a 'boutique' stadium in the Burbs with 'good parking' easy to get to by PT is still not going to be anything close to the facilities at Etihad which couldnt be closer to central PT.

I agree, I'm pretty sure even Visy was a pretty poor financial deal at the time when they used it.
If you gave a typical business mogul a free stadium which had zero ( or incredibly small ) operating costs they would still charge as much as they possibly could.
The only thing that could happen is that a third business could introduce a new competative factor.

 

[Rob]

Sigh. The 2 questions that should be answered before anyone advocates a new stadium in Melbourne are these:

1. Who's going to come up with the $200 million plus to pay for it?

2. What's going to happen when it draws shitty crowds, the tenants still lose money and demand their home games be shifted elsewhere?

 

[eskabah]

Most of the money for stadiums comes from the Government, mainly state.

If anything I think the AFL should start looking at land in develepment areas, near freeways and train stations, more as a 20-40 year plan.

 

[R00StaR]

Sigh. The 2 questions that should be answered before anyone advocates a new stadium in Melbourne are these:

1. Who's going to come up with the $200 million plus to pay for it?

2. What's going to happen when it draws shitty crowds, the tenants still lose money and demand their home games be shifted elsewhere?

Freo chipping in a lazy 350m+ for their stadium hey, impressive.

Anyway we dont need a new stadium, what we have is enough. They just need to remove the debt/ private company from Docklands.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Sigh. The 2 questions that should be answered before anyone advocates a new stadium in Melbourne are these:

1. Who's going to come up with the $200 million plus to pay for it?

2. What's going to happen when it draws shitty crowds, the tenants still lose money and demand their home games be shifted elsewhere?

1.Lots of possibilities including private, AFL , Government and any combination of the three.

2. Unless there is something seriously wrong with the stadium, it will be the teams that draw the crowd. The whole idea was a stadium that would be good for the smaller crowds.

 

[Rob]

1.Lots of possibilities including private, AFL , Government and any combination of the three.

AFL won't pay for it, private industry will expect a return on it, and the government are going to struggle to justify it.

2. Unless there is something seriously wrong with the stadium, it will be the teams that draw the crowd. The whole idea was a stadium that would be good for the smaller crowds.

Great, but Melburnians will not show up to 2nd or 3rd rate stadiums. You guys complain about Etihad FFS and that's daylight ahead of every other stadium in the country bar the G. If a game will get a crowd of 15-20k at Etihad or the MCG then it's going to get much closer to 10k at a low cost stadium. Good luck making money out of that.

I've heard people seriously suggest Optus Oval as a 3rd stadium. They either have no idea that every other club campaigned the AFL not to schedule their home games there due to shit crowds or have forgotten about it.

 

[eskabah]

I think about the great sports teams of the world and they all have some thing in common, a home ground. Does anybody want a home ground anymore? Seems like people would rather sit in in bland stadiums with upto 80,000 empty seats, I find this sad.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

AFL won't pay for it, private industry will expect a return on it, and the government are going to struggle to justify it.



Great, but Melburnians will not show up to 2nd or 3rd rate stadiums. You guys complain about Etihad FFS and that's daylight ahead of every other stadium in the country bar the G. If a game will get a crowd of 15-20k at Etihad or the MCG then it's going to get much closer to 10k at a low cost stadium. Good luck making money out of that.

I've heard people seriously suggest Optus Oval as a 3rd stadium. They either have no idea that every other club campaigned the AFL not to schedule their home games there due to shit crowds or have forgotten about it.

What do you call second rate though.
I consider Optus oval to have poor facilities and generally the viewing isn't as good as Etihad.
The big problem was always transport though. ( As with Waverly ).
In both cases it could/should have been adressed but wasnt.

 

[Rob]

What do you call second rate though.
I consider Optus oval to have poor facilities and generally the viewing isn't as good as Etihad.
The big problem was always transport though. ( As with Waverly ).
In both cases it could/should have been adressed but wasnt.

If you want a cheap stadium, then you first have to accept that the viewing and facilities are not going to be as good as Etihad. That's why it would be cheaper. What is second rate? Just take a trip to Adelaide or Perth.

20,000 at Etihad and you'll find it easy to get in, easy to walk around, easy to go to the toilet, easy to buy food and drink and you're going to have a good seat with a good view and stay dry. At a smaller cheap ground you certainly won't have all of those things, and you might not have any of them.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

It seems fine for West Coast and Freo to get a plane to Melbourne and then a play to Tassie though?

There are direct flights from Melbourne to Albury-Wodonga.

Except thay don't, or at least aren't supposed to. The AFL agreed to charter a flight when necessary games after Freo's 8 hour debacle a few years back.
As always when the AFL agrees something with clubs other than Collingwood and Essendon, its not always followed through and Freo (though not West Coast) have reportedly sometimes been forced to take connecting flights.

 

[tigertiger]

whats all the work going on around etihad looks like it is being enclosed by high rise accomodation

 

[Dont be a lemon]

whats all the work going on around etihad looks like it is being enclosed by high rise accomodation

Melbourne needs higher population density.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Melbourne needs higher population density.

Most of the population seem quite dense to me.

Actually the real problem , for AFL expansion, and in the long term for Australia in general, is that all our population is concentrated in our few cities.

 

[tigertiger]

Most of the population seem quite dense to me.

Actually the real problem , for AFL expansion, and in the long term for Australia in general, is that all our population is concentrated in our few cities.

Id say its important to have all the dense people in one spot, look at collingwood seems to have worked well for them

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Id say its important to have all the dense people in one spot, look at collingwood seems to have worked well for them

If only there had been a Collingwood family day the day they closed Victoria park.
They could have just sealed up the doors and walked away.

 

[Underarm]

whats all the work going on around etihad looks like it is being enclosed by high rise accomodation

Its a shopping complex of some kind I think.

 

[adamj1300au]

If you want a cheap stadium, then you first have to accept that the viewing and facilities are not going to be as good as Etihad. That's why it would be cheaper. What is second rate? Just take a trip to Adelaide or Perth.

20,000 at Etihad and you'll find it easy to get in, easy to walk around, easy to go to the toilet, easy to buy food and drink and you're going to have a good seat with a good view and stay dry. At a smaller cheap ground you certainly won't have all of those things, and you might not have any of them.

you guys are spoild down in Melbourne with transport facilties and first class stadiums. there is nothing wrong with Etihad, people only whinge about it because its different to the mcg.

having grown up in Melbourne for most of my life and now living in Brisbane & having traveled to the other states to watch the footy or cricket. the transport and faculties are second to none when comparing to other states.

getting out to optus oval is far easier than getting to the gabba up here. there are a few busses that run to the ground, but no train or tram. parking is pimited around the area & the police have to shut the streets down around the ground. viewing wise in the ground is ok but not brilliant.

optus oval, has a trainline near buy, trams run past it and so does busses.