New teams for fast growing Melbourne: Stars and Dragons

Professor Knowall

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Sep 24, 2006
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i think there should be ten more teams in sydney because it is bigger than melbourne
Melbourne will be overtaking Sydney very soon. If it hasn't already...
they’ve been saying that for years and it never has. hope it does though, then it will be the undisputed suburban shithole of australia
Actually Melbourne already really has overtaken Sydney's population. - it's just that for some weird reason, the BOS includes the quite seperate Central Coast population as part of Sydney (even though the NSW State Gov't does not). This is akin to the BOS including Geelong, Ballarat or Bendigo as part of Melbourne (but which correctly they don't).

The reality is that Melbourne's metro population is already bigger than Sydneys actual metro population -
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/is-melbourne-already-bigger-than-sydney-20170922-gyn2k4.html
 
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Jason mp

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After the Stars and the Dragons are established and we have reliable teleportation technology I'd like to see the Essendon Bombers relocated to Hiroshima and a new team included from the USA, the Los Angeles AK47s.
 

Abasi

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North won't be relocating anywhere.

You folks need to get out of the 90s mindset where that stuff happened, and get into 2018.

Melbourne is going to DOUBLE in size in the next 10-15 years.

Melbourne is a global home of Australian Rules footy.

Melbourne should grow its footy footprint along with its population.
The AFL want you playing 7 home games in tassie by 2022.

What will that number be in 2030?
 

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TheFVK

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With Melbourne's population growth continuing at breakneck speed - the city is expected to have doubled in size by 2031 to around 10 million people - new teams will be needed to meet that growth.

Much of that population growth will occur on the fringes of the city. Population growth in the centre of the city can expect to be mopped up by the existing clubs (like the E-gate development etc), but if the AFL is serious about growing the game it needs to look at new teams that appeal to the new arrivals.

Given most migrants are coming from India and China, they appear to be the logical choices. Port and Melbourne have made attempts to break those markets, but the time has come for a proper effort.

New teams specifically aimed at the people who are arriving in huge numbers - teams they can identify with, build their own history with, their own teams. Sort of like how Celtic grew in Glasgow.

The Chinese centre of Melbourne is in the Box Hill/Glen Waverley area. It makes sense the team should be based there. And play some home games (four a year perhaps to start with) in Shanghai.

Indian migrants often head to the south eastern expanse suburbs past Pakenham. They should be based there and play at an Indian city. This club should spring from one of the existing Big Bash franchises, say the Stars

The Chinese focused team would be the Dragons and the Indian focused team are the Stars.

Bringing the comp up to 20 then allows for a 10 team conference style set up, east and west.

West

West Coast
Dockers
Crows
Port
Stars
North
Dogs
Essendon
Carlton
Geelong


East

Suns
Lions
Swans
Giants
Dragons
Richmond
St Kilda
Melbourne
Hawthorn
Collingwood

Works well for all and grows the game very well.
Did you even read the article? Melbourne CBD will double in size to 230,000, not 10million.
 

madmug

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Struggling clubs like North Melbourne could change their focus from Hobart to the Indian migrating population. They have a great iconic Australian nickname The Kangaroos. Drop North from their name as it's been a low supporter catchment area for them.

Hindu Melbourne Kangaroos
So do you recon we could 'curry f(l)avour' with the Indian population by giving them the Kangaroos?. :)
 

Our Game

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There are too many teams in Melbourne already Most cities around the the size of Melbourne or bigger dont have 10 teams more like a max of 3 or maybe 4 some only have one in a national competition.
 

telsor

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Struggling clubs like North Melbourne could change their focus from Hobart to the Indian migrating population. They have a great iconic Australian nickname The Kangaroos. Drop North from their name as it's been a low supporter catchment area for them.

Hindu Melbourne Kangaroos
Richmond has been working on them for years....On the basis that 'tigers' resonates with them somewhat.

Not sure we've had a huge impact, but we keep turning up at Diwali festival and a bunch of other stuff, and they wouldn't keep at it if they didn't think they were getting somewhere.
 

telsor

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There are too many teams in Melbourne already Most cities around the the size of Melbourne or bigger dont have 10 teams more like a max of 3 or maybe 4 some only have one in a national competition.
Melbourne is over half the AFLs audience (members, ratings, attendances...probably population too if you put a realistic discount on the non football states). So over half the support has over half the teams...Seems about right. Just seems odd when you don't factor in how big Melbourne/Vic is relative to the rest.

NSW/QLD have too many teams, WA & SA have too few (based on support/audience). Vic is roughly the right number given the number of teams in the comp.
 
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deltablues

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With Melbourne's population growth continuing at breakneck speed - the city is expected to have doubled in size by 2031 to around 10 million people - new teams will be needed to meet that growth.

Much of that population growth will occur on the fringes of the city. Population growth in the centre of the city can expect to be mopped up by the existing clubs (like the E-gate development etc), but if the AFL is serious about growing the game it needs to look at new teams that appeal to the new arrivals.

Given most migrants are coming from India and China, they appear to be the logical choices. Port and Melbourne have made attempts to break those markets, but the time has come for a proper effort.

New teams specifically aimed at the people who are arriving in huge numbers - teams they can identify with, build their own history with, their own teams. Sort of like how Celtic grew in Glasgow.

The Chinese centre of Melbourne is in the Box Hill/Glen Waverley area. It makes sense the team should be based there. And play some home games (four a year perhaps to start with) in Shanghai.

Indian migrants often head to the south eastern expanse suburbs past Pakenham. They should be based there and play at an Indian city. This club should spring from one of the existing Big Bash franchises, say the Stars

The Chinese focused team would be the Dragons and the Indian focused team are the Stars.

Bringing the comp up to 20 then allows for a 10 team conference style set up, east and west.

West

West Coast
Dockers
Crows
Port
Stars
North
Dogs
Essendon
Carlton
Geelong


East

Suns
Lions
Swans
Giants
Dragons
Richmond
St Kilda
Melbourne
Hawthorn
Collingwood

Works well for all and grows the game very well.
Aussie Rules doesn't need a Chinese and/or Indian "focused team". Or any other ethnic identifier.

Learn from the ethnic strife Oz Soccer endured, bud.
 

Our Game

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Melbourne is over half the AFLs audience (members, ratings, attendances...probably population too if you put a realistic discount on the non football states). So over half the support has over half the teams...Seems about right. Just seems odd when you don't factor in how big Melbourne/Vic is relative to the rest.

NSW/QLD have too many teams, WA & SA have too few (based on support/audience). Vic is roughly the right number given the number of teams in the comp.
Perth and Brisbane both have 2 million pop and 2 and 1 team teams so Melbourne with 5 million should have a max of 5 teams and Geelong.

This will sort itself out in the future as clubs like North,St Kilda and Western Bulldogs will continue to struggle against the pulling power of the bigger Vic clubs and so will struggle to remain viable.

The crowds have stabilised in Melbourne and even with the massive increase in Population over the past 15 years the AFL crowds in Melbourne have declined as a relative % of the population.The only real growth in crowds has been Adelaide Oval and now Perth's new stadium.

Even though the Tigers are pulling some good crowds this year on the back of the premiership some of the other big Melbourne clubs like Collingwood,Carlton and now Essendon since they started losing are not improving at all.
 
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telsor

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Perth and Brisbane both have 2 million pop and 2 and 1 team teams so Melbourne with 5 million should have a max of 5 teams and Geelong.

This will sort itself out in the future as clubs like North,St Kilda and Western Bulldogs will continue to struggle against the pulling power of the bigger Vic clubs and so will struggle to remain viable.

The crowds have stabilised in Melbourne and even with the massive increase in Population over the past 15 years the AFL crowds in Melbourne have declined as a relative % of the population.The only real growth in crowds has been Adelaide Oval and now Perth's new stadium.

Even though the Tigers are pulling some good crowds this year on the back of the premiership some of the other big Melbourne clubs like Collingwood,Carlton and now Essendon since they started losing are not improving at all.
Except nobody in Brisbane actually follows the game, so raw population doesn't really apply for them.

Crowds may not have grown in line with pop growth, but check the ratings...

Anyway..in football states...
Vic 6.3m
WA 2.5m
SA 1.6m
Tas 0.5m
total...call it 11m 14 teams (excluding those in NSW/QLD which have different criteria) would be ~785k per team.

Which works out as...
Vic 8 teams (in terms of home games played in the state, Vic has 9, so that's 1 up on what it 'should' be)
WA 3 (one down)
SA 2
Tas 0.6 (so..7 games?)
and for the remaining 0.4...gee, maybe a few in Darwin/cairns, etc?

Really, not all that far off what we have now. (and it's even closer when you factor in pop growth) Close enough that it isn't worth pissing lots of people off and killing teams for....unless you're volunteering your mob.
 

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thegreig

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Well, Hawthorn is the closest to having moved out, so they're clearly the first out the door.

You are volunteering your own team, aren't you?
I'm not volunteering any clubs, I'm just saying it would make more sense cutting teams then it would adding... you know, like you just pointed out in your above comment :drunk:
 

blue harvest

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Actually Melbourne already really has overtaken Sydney's population. - it's just that for some weird reason, the BOS includes the quite seperate Central Coast population as part of Sydney (even though the NSW State Gov't does not). This is akin to the BOS to include Geelong, Ballarat or Bendigo as part of Melbourne (but which correctly they don't).

The reality is that Melbourne's metro population is already bigger than Sydneys actual metro population -
https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/is-melbourne-already-bigger-than-sydney-20170922-gyn2k4.html
Interestingly the ABS includes the whole of the Mornington Peninsular in Melbourne's population, all the way down to Pt Nepean which is over 100km away.
 

Our Game

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The AFL needs less teams not more.
The talent pool is being spread too thin already and thats one of the reasons for the decline in the overall standard of play that many people are talking about.
 

madmug

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Interestingly the ABS includes the whole of the Mornington Peninsular in Melbourne's population, all the way down to Pt Nepean which is over 100km away.
This population size pissing contest is really counterproductive. Both cities are becoming harder to live in. More stress on transport & services. Already we see that AFL attendances are not keeping up with population growth. They are in Perth & Adelaide. So why not more teams, certainly in Perth?
 

deltablues

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Well, Hawthorn is the closest to having moved out, so they're clearly the first out the door.

You are volunteering your own team, aren't you?
So, zooming out to motives, my take on you, telsor (and I mean this in the nicest way, natürlich) is that your view of the non Vic AFL teams is reminiscent of the Romans re the vanquished Carthaginians.

Surely you can see that this colors all you have to say on the topic, across the board, and as an educated person (which I am sure you are), you should recuse yourself from commenting on these issues.

I mean, the Carthaginians get it - Victoria über alles ist, nicht wahr?

Give it a rest...
 

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