NFL New to NFL - Please Explain

[Exe Gesis]

Ive recently started to follow the Knicks in the NBA so im keen to follow a NY team in the NFL.
What are some pros and cons of the Jets and Giants?
Who should i follow out of those two?
Edit-Im thinking the Jets.

Re-post your post in this thread tho, it's for this discussion....

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/picking-a-nfl-team.1185536/

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Jets had success early (1969), but havent won since, tho they make the playoffs regularly every year or
two

I jumped on the Jets in 2009/10 during g their back to back AFCCG run, my support was solidified when they knocked off the Pats in Foxboro in the Divisional Round.

Haven't been back to the playoffs since!

 

[Exe Gesis]

I jumped on the Jets in 2009/10 during g their back to back AFCCG run, my support was solidified when they knocked off the Pats in Foxboro in the Divisional Round.

Haven't been back to the playoffs since!

So they're due

 

[Demonic Ascent]

2 things I didn't get from the CG's

1) the Edelman fumble - the commentators said even if he touched it it's not a TD to the Chiefs, the ball would be placed at the spot where they recovered the ball. I thought that if any returning player touches the ball it's as if it was fumbled, or is that only if they catch it? I thought for sure it was a TD at the time

2) the Brees OT intercept - commentators have suggested it should've been roughing the passer because the defensive player touches his arm and not the ball. Is this part of the new rules this year? That seems soft as *, surely they're allowed to hit/grab the arm of the QB. They do it for strips, what's the difference?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

2 things I didn't get from the CG's

1) the Edelman fumble - the commentators said even if he touched it it's not a TD to the Chiefs, the ball would be placed at the spot where they recovered the ball. I thought that if any returning player touches the ball it's as if it was fumbled, or is that only if they catch it? I thought for sure it was a TD at the time

2) the Brees OT intercept - commentators have suggested it should've been roughing the passer because the defensive player touches his arm and not the ball. Is this part of the new rules this year? That seems soft as ****, surely they're allowed to hit/grab the arm of the QB. They do it for strips, what's the difference?

On the Edelman one, you can not advance the ball on a kick. It happened in a Champ game a few years ago as well when 49ers Kyle Williams let ball touch his knee v Giants.

Can’t remember the Brees one, maybe if they drag the arm? Wouldn’t be a penalty ignore it was incidental contact

 

[Exe Gesis]

yep cant advance ball. but can still score a td from a kick off or punt....if the ball touches receiving team then rolls into endzone from a punt, the kicking team dives on ball in endzone, td.

kickoff, doesnt even have to touch a player, if the ball just sits there in the endzone and kicking team dives on ball, td.

bress got hit across the chest and the throwing arm up in the air, any contact to helmet was incidental.

whereas brady got contacted on the helmet after the ball had been released. if brady had got hit like brees, still in throwing motion, and incidental contact, eouldnt be roughing.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Thanks for the answers, I always thought you could run it in for a TD if it touched the receiving player on a kickoff or punt. If you can't run it in then why did the chiefs players run it to the endzone? Do they not know the rules? Or just caught up in adrenaline rush

The commentary I've heard on the Brees one was that it should have been a penalty because the arm was hit and the defensive player didn't tip the ball. Nothing about a facemask.

 

[Broken]

Thanks for the answers, I always thought you could run it in for a TD if it touched the receiving player on a kickoff or punt. If you can't run it in then why did the chiefs players run it to the endzone? Do they not know the rules? Or just caught up in adrenaline rush

The commentary I've heard on the Brees one was that it should have been a penalty because the arm was hit and the defensive player didn't tip the ball. Nothing about a facemask.

A large reason is that with the review system they run it in to the endzone just in case something shows up that actually results in a TD.

 

[drd23]

The commentary I've heard on the Brees one was that it should have been a penalty because the arm was hit and the defensive player didn't tip the ball. Nothing about a facemask.

It's not that he was hit in the arm that people are arguing was a penalty, it was that he was hit in the head in the follow through

 

[Exe Gesis]

A team has four plays to make 10 yards. Doing so gives them another four plays to nake 10 yards. Until they either score or turn over possession by fumbling it away or throwing an interception or not advancing 10 yards in those four plays. In any of those cases, the other team now has possession, and the opportunity to use four plays to make 10 yards, etc. Often the fourth play is to punt the ball as far down field as possible, to make the opponent have the length of the field to try to advance (harder to do). Punting usually occurs when the team with the ball is on that fourth play but too many yards to achieve a new set of four plays AND still deep in their own territory. Too risky, smarter to punt it away.

When you have possession, you can either run the ball, or throw the ball forward. You can only throw the ball forward once on a play.

A team of 11 players on the field. 11 on offense, 11 on defense. Each team has its own set of 11 players who play offense or defense only.

On offense -- Quarterback who usually throws the ball forward. Halfback who usually is the carrier of the ball when running with the ball. Wide Receivers who usually run down field to be catchers of the thrown ball. Five Offensive Lineman who are tasked with blocking defenders from tackling either the QB or the HB. A Tight End who usually is a hybrid of WR and an Offensive Lineman.

On defense -- Defensive Tackles and Defensive Ends who are tasked with trying to beat the Offensive Lineman from blocking them. Linebackers who are usually tasked with trying to tackle the ball carriers and QB. And Defensive Backs who are usually tasked with running alongside the Wide Receivers to stop them from catching the ball.

Each of the positions above for both offense and defense usually are specialist players, who have specialized physiques for the position. OL very big, heavy, strong, and tall. WRs very lean and agile and fast with great athletic ability to jump and catch. HBs often shorter and more robust but also agile, low center of gravity, who can run with the ball and break tackles and spin and dodge tacklers. Same for the counterparts on defense....DL big strong to be able to wrestle with OL. LBs shorter robust and agile to run around and tackle HBs. DBs lean and very fast with great athletic ability to be able to run and chase WRs and jump and catch to thwart them.

All that is a very basic, standardized set of fundamentals. The game gets very complex as teams utilize tactics and strategies and varieties of players to try to confuse each other on the field on any given play.

If a team on Offense carries the ball into the endzone, or catches the ball in the endzone, that is a Touchdown, and worth 6 pts. They then get to either kick the ball thru the goalposts for an additional 1 pt, or run a standard play to score an additional 2 pts. If they have reached their fourth and final play, and are close enough to the goalposts, they can elect to kick the ball thru the goalposts for 3 pts. A defensive team can score 6 pts (Touchdown) if they intercept a thrown pass or pick up a fumbled ball, and carry the ball all the way into the other team's endzone. A defense can also score 2 pts if they tackle a player inside his own endzone.

You don't have to be on offense to have the ability to score points. But If the defense stops the offense from scoring, and now has possession of the ball, the coach will substitute all those specialist defensive players off the field and bring on his specialist offensive players. Likewise, the other offensive team who just lost possession the coach will replace his specialist offensive players and bring on his specialist defensive players. Always a contest of one team's set of specialists vs the other team's set of specialists, depending on which team has possession of the ball.

In the olden days, players used to play both sides of the ball all game. But over the last 50-60 years it has become specialists vs specialists. A roster of over 40 players -- starters and backups to cover for injury.

 

[Boston tiger]

When there is a punt why do sometimes the returning team catch it and run with it and sometimes they just let it bounce ?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

When there is a punt why do sometimes the returning team catch it and run with it and sometimes they just let it bounce ?

They let it bounce if they think the ball will go into the end zone. If it does the offense starts from own 25 yd line.

 

[drd23]

They let it bounce if they think the ball will go into the end zone. If it does the offense starts from own 25 yd line.

20 yard line.

It only starts at the 25 if its a touchback on a kick-off

 

[Exe Gesis]

When there is a punt why do sometimes the returning team catch it and run with it and sometimes they just let it bounce ?

Also sometimes the kick wasnt very good (high and long), so as they wait to catch the ball they might feel they have room to try to make a big run. If they feel they do, they will catch it and run. If they feel they dont have room they will wave their arm in the air to signal to the refs and the opposing players that they are "fair catching" the ball....meaning they will turn down the opportunity to run with the ball so no need to come and hit me.

Sometimes a kick is wobbling in the air, swirling around, or the kick is bouncing along the turf....both cases tricky to get hold of the ball and not fumble it, so they will just run away from the ball.

Because....if the catcher/returner touches it or fumbles it, then the kicking team can dive on the ball and claim possession

If no player from the returning team touches the ball, the kicking team can touch the ball first, but doing so would only be to establish the spot where the receiving team would start their possession......why you see them sprint downfield, following the ball as it rolls toward the endzone, hoping to grab it as close to the endzone as possible, the 1 or 2 yard line if they can get there.

 

[Frank Bunn]

A team has four plays to make 10 yards. Doing so gives them another four plays to nake 10 yards. Until they either score or turn over possession by fumbling it away or throwing an interception or not advancing 10 yards in those four plays. In any of those cases, the other team now has possession, and the opportunity to use four plays to make 10 yards, etc. Often the fourth play is to punt the ball as far down field as possible, to make the opponent have the length of the field to try to advance (harder to do). Punting usually occurs when the team with the ball is on that fourth play but too many yards to achieve a new set of four plays AND still deep in their own territory. Too risky, smarter to punt it away.

When you have possession, you can either run the ball, or throw the ball forward. You can only throw the ball forward once on a play.

A team of 11 players on the field. 11 on offense, 11 on defense. Each team has its own set of 11 players who play offense or defense only.

On offense -- Quarterback who usually throws the ball forward. Halfback who usually is the carrier of the ball when running with the ball. Wide Receivers who usually run down field to be catchers of the thrown ball. Five Offensive Lineman who are tasked with blocking defenders from tackling either the QB or the HB. A Tight End who usually is a hybrid of WR and an Offensive Lineman.

On defense -- Defensive Tackles and Defensive Ends who are tasked with trying to beat the Offensive Lineman from blocking them. Linebackers who are usually tasked with trying to tackle the ball carriers and QB. And Defensive Backs who are usually tasked with running alongside the Wide Receivers to stop them from catching the ball.

Each of the positions above for both offense and defense usually are specialist players, who have specialized physiques for the position. OL very big, heavy, strong, and tall. WRs very lean and agile and fast with great athletic ability to jump and catch. HBs often shorter and more robust but also agile, low center of gravity, who can run with the ball and break tackles and spin and dodge tacklers. Same for the counterparts on defense....DL big strong to be able to wrestle with OL. LBs shorter robust and agile to run around and tackle HBs. DBs lean and very fast with great athletic ability to be able to run and chase WRs and jump and catch to thwart them.

All that is a very basic, standardized set of fundamentals. The game gets very complex as teams utilize tactics and strategies and varieties of players to try to confuse each other on the field on any given play.

If a team on Offense carries the ball into the endzone, or catches the ball in the endzone, that is a Touchdown, and worth 6 pts. They then get to either kick the ball thru the goalposts for an additional 1 pt, or run a standard play to score an additional 2 pts. If they have reached their fourth and final play, and are close enough to the goalposts, they can elect to kick the ball thru the goalposts for 3 pts. A defensive team can score 6 pts (Touchdown) if they intercept a thrown pass or pick up a fumbled ball, and carry the ball all the way into the other team's endzone. A defense can also score 2 pts if they tackle a player inside his own endzone.

You don't have to be on offense to have the ability to score points. But If the defense stops the offense from scoring, and now has possession of the ball, the coach will substitute all those specialist defensive players off the field and bring on his specialist offensive players. Likewise, the other offensive team who just lost possession the coach will replace his specialist offensive players and bring on his specialist defensive players. Always a contest of one team's set of specialists vs the other team's set of specialists, depending on which team has possession of the ball.

In the olden days, players used to play both sides of the ball all game. But over the last 50-60 years it has become specialists vs specialists. A roster of over 40 players -- starters and backups to cover for injury.

Thanks GG. That's a really good explanation for noobs like me who enjoy the game but want to understand it more.

I think I've got to grips with the basic rules but I reckon some of the technicalities might even get lost for fans who have been following it for a while. Like what sort of blocks and tackles are permitted in different circumstances, or the rules around the line of scrimmage and player positions. In a TV game I would be relying on the referees and commentators to explain the decisions.

You mentioned about the olden days - players playing both sides of the game. Does that still happen now at lower levels or casually? I grew up playing soccer where for a casual game you try to split whoever is around into two roughly equal sides. Can that happen with gridiron?

All that aside I have to pick an NFL team! I'm not going to support a team that moves around like the country like the Cardinals. Tom Brady is my favourite player so I'm going for the New England Patriots.

 

[captain cotch 9]

Thanks GG. That's a really good explanation for noobs like me who enjoy the game but want to understand it more.

I think I've got to grips with the basic rules but I reckon some of the technicalities might even get lost for fans who have been following it for a while. Like what sort of blocks and tackles are permitted in different circumstances, or the rules around the line of scrimmage and player positions. In a TV game I would be relying on the referees and commentators to explain the decisions.

You mentioned about the olden days - players playing both sides of the game. Does that still happen now at lower levels or casually? I grew up playing soccer where for a casual game you try to split whoever is around into two roughly equal sides. Can that happen with gridiron?

All that aside I have to pick an NFL team! I'm not going to support a team that moves around like the country like the Cardinals. Tom Brady is my favourite player so I'm going for the New England Patriots.

Glad your getting into the game. It’s awsome once you understand the rules.
You do know Brady dosnt play for NEP anymore don’t you?

 

[Frank Bunn]

Glad your getting into the game. It’s awsome once you understand the rules.
You do know Brady dosnt play for NEP anymore don’t you?

Yes. I know he's moved to Tampa. Amazing he's still playing at that level. But the guy's best years were at NEP.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Thanks GG. That's a really good explanation for noobs like me who enjoy the game but want to understand it more.

I think I've got to grips with the basic rules but I reckon some of the technicalities might even get lost for fans who have been following it for a while. Like what sort of blocks and tackles are permitted in different circumstances, or the rules around the line of scrimmage and player positions. In a TV game I would be relying on the referees and commentators to explain the decisions.

You mentioned about the olden days - players playing both sides of the game. Does that still happen now at lower levels or casually? I grew up playing soccer where for a casual game you try to split whoever is around into two roughly equal sides. Can that happen with gridiron?

All that aside I have to pick an NFL team! I'm not going to support a team that moves around like the country like the Cardinals. Tom Brady is my favourite player so I'm going for the New England Patriots.

They play both sides of the ball often in junior leagues. In high school maybe a super talented guy might play a few positions. But as you get into varsity leagues and college its mainly specialists. Sometimes even in college and nfl a coach might use a player for two or more positions but itd be sporadic usage. But the 1920s thru to 1950s it was mainly played two-ways. The QB was also the MLB and maybe also the kicker. Etc. Especially those days the game was purer, but also all the world wars caused havoc with available players as well as the game itself was still not very popular and players on low salaries. Wouldnt be till the early 60s before football surpassed baseball and eventually became the behemoth it is today, including players union rights and all that side of things.

 

[Discrim]

You mentioned about the olden days - players playing both sides of the game. Does that still happen now at lower levels or casually? I grew up playing soccer where for a casual game you try to split whoever is around into two roughly equal sides. Can that happen with gridiron?

Yeah, in high school and below, players play both offense and defense all the time (they may be obviously better on one side...but high school and youth coaches like to have their most talented players on the field as often as possible. Hell, if a team's numbers are low enough, players end up playing one-platoon ball by default...I remember a JV game I played in where this was the case for us, and aside from halftime, I never left the field (rumor has it the ghost of 16 year old me is still on that field in Kenosha )...by my own guesstimate, a vast majority of the guys who make it to the NFL played on both sides of the ball through high school. Hell, some of them may have even been kickers or punters on top of it.
Far as casually playing, yeah, I remember back in elementary school we split whoever was there, and we usually had an all time quarterback. Given that teachers generally frown upon boys coming back from recess covered in dirt and mud, we played touch.

Edit: a little relevant history that came to mind regarding platoons...the terms generally used are one-platoon, which is players playing on both sides, and two-platoon, which is players specializing in offense, defense and kicking roles. During World War II, the NCAA (and later, the NFL) adopted free substitution due to many of the top college players either fighting in the war or making a beeline to West Point or Navy (ironically enough, being in a service academy exempted you from being drafted, IIRC). A few years after the war ended, the NCAA returned to one-platoon football. In the late 50s, looking to keep his players relatively fresh, LSU coach Paul Dietzel utilized a workaround he'd called a three-platoon: LSU's best eleven were the White team, who played the bulk of the game, then they had the Go team, primarily used as a backup offense, and a third team that was mainly used on defense and would eventually become known as the Chinese Bandits, both of which tended to be sent in as a unit for the last offensive or defensive series of a given quarter, and then the White team would be sent back in to start the next quarter. The Bandits, who were mostly underclassmen who'd seen little playing time before, were famed for their sheer tenacity, such that they were key to LSU being named that season's national champions...amusingly enough, LSU wasn't even expected to finish very high in the SEC that year, let alone finish #1 in the nation.

The kicking game...for those of you who've ever thought about it, you never see an NFL kicker also handle punting unless the punter's injured; likewise, you rarely see a punter attempting field goals unless the kicker is injured or has a relatively weak leg and they're lining up for a long FG. As former Vikings punter Chris Kluwe pointed out...

1. The motions interfere with each other. Kicking is more of a swiveling motion in the hips, punting is more straight on. If you mix them up, you get really shitty results. The NFL is notoriously unforgiving of really shitty results.
   

   Even if you manage to separate the motions, and avoid getting really shitty results, one person already tried it, Koenen I believe for Atlanta in 2008 or 2009, and promptly blew his leg out halfway through the season. In the NFL, there's no room on the roster for a backup guy to take all the reps you need for special teams practice throughout the week, and there's a LOT of reps if you're doing both. For example, our practice schedule is punt coverage, punt return, and field goals on Wednesday, kickoff, kickoff return, and field goals on Thursday, and then punt coverage and punt return again on Friday. Notice the staggering of kicking days by position, and that our kicker gets two days of rest before the game after kickoff day? That's so your leg doesn't explode into a million billion tiny shards of red hot muscle agony. It's just not physiologically possible to do that much kicking over a 21 week period (remember, we generally take all our preseason reps too) without muscles breaking down. Our special teams coaches actually keep track of how many kicks we're taking throughout the week so we don't overkick and injure something, and it's a tight balancing act between getting enough reps for the coverage guys to practice on versus us pulling a muscle as it is.

   (Also, all that being said, that's not even taking all of the warmup kicks you need to stay loose on the sideline during a game into account. You've essentially tripled your workload for that game. You may only see us on the field 4-8 times, but we're not just sitting on the sideline eating popcorn (as much fun as that would be))

   So, no, you won't be seeing a hybrid kicker/punter any time soon. If you do, I will give 100% odds that he is on HGH, because there's physically no way to make it through the season doing both.

That, and Koenen wasn't good at field goals, so the Falcons had to bring back the now-former GOAT kicker, Morten Andersen. Granted, if I were the Falcons GM, the only kicker I take over Morten Andersen is Justin Tucker. That said, you occasionally see guys doing both in college and in Canada (the latter due to smaller rosters than the NFL, so they'll settle for someone good enough at both), and you also might see a kickoff specialist, due to the larger rosters college teams carry: in that setup, the kicker is normally an upperclassman, and handles field goals and extra points; the punter punts and holds for the kicker; finally, the kickoff speclialist, as the name suggests, handles the kickoffs, as he might have a stronger leg than the main kicker but be less accurate...a few years back when Wisconsin lost their kicker for the season, they turned to their kickoff specialist...who had somehow gone through high school and college without ever attempting a field goal before that season. He was a roll of the dice, IIRC.

 

[Frank Bunn]

The kicking game...for those of you who've ever thought about it, you never see an NFL kicker also handle punting unless the punter's injured; likewise, you rarely see a punter attempting field goals unless the kicker is injured or has a relatively weak leg and they're lining up for a long FG.

The motions interfere with each other. Kicking is more of a swiveling motion in the hips, punting is more straight on. If you mix them up, you get really shitty results. The NFL is notoriously unforgiving of really shitty results.

That makes sense. After growing up playing soccer I was much better drop-punting an Aussie Rules ball on my wrong foot because I didn't have that ingrained swivel on that side.