Next Captain?

[BIG MATTY T]

If a player is following poor instruction on the field and in fitness, they can't be held accountable. I had no faith in the people that were in their positions from 2008 onwards. The next two years will answer all the questions raised over Travis.

Yeah that's a fair point I can see a distinct difference between now and then ...

Imagine how good Broady can be when he was that flourished with the old regime

 

[TheFVK]

Where did you get that last one from? Never heard it before. It couldn't possibly be right as the number of ineffective disposals per game where a player has some body contact on his opponent would number in the hundreds let alone all the "legit" tackles for holding the ball/causing a ball up. Tackles numbers just aren't that high. They average about 70 a match or something.

You'd be surprised.

http://www.afl.com.au/stats/aflstatshelp/tabid/17818/default.aspx

TackleWhen a player stops an opposition player with possession of the ball from getting his kick or handball away in a legal manner, or reduces the effectiveness of the opposition's disposal. The tackler's action must change the course of play.

http://www.afl.com.au/stats/aflstatshelp/tabid/17818/default.aspx

If you're into dreamteam at all the question of "what constitutes a tackle" comes up periodically.

 

[FishingRick04]

Yeah that's a fair point I can see a distinct difference between now and then ...

Imagine how good Broady can be when he was that flourished with the old regime

Yes, but as a reformed smoker I don't vote him to be captain

 

[wilbur_15]

You'd be surprised.



If you're into dreamteam at all the question of "what constitutes a tackle" comes up periodically.

Well, there you go, I stand corrected (although those links aren't working - just takes me to the afl homepage). Never heard that before. So that explains why there isn't two hundred tackles per team per game. So someone has to rate every single tackle to determine whether it "changes the course of play". Obviously gonna be very subjective. Interesting.

 

[Chopperdave]

Well, there you go, I stand corrected (although those links aren't working - just takes me to the afl homepage). Never heard that before. So that explains why there isn't two hundred tackles per team per game. So someone has to rate every single tackle to determine whether it "changes the course of play". Obviously gonna be very subjective. Interesting.

Its actually not that subjective at all. Having worked with Champion Data statistics its actually pretty obvious what leads to a tackle being counted. Try and use their outlines and watch a few quarters of football and record your own stats. I think you will find you will get similar results that they do.

The main one I think people don't realise is lets say for example Judd gets the ball in a pack, Ebert Wraps him up but Judd fires out a handball to Murphy who runs away, Boak gets an arm around Murphy which leads his kick to go out on the full. Even though Ebert may have looked to get a "tackle" Boak would be the one who gets a tackle stat out of that play.

 

[TheFVK]

I think one of the biggest points of conjecture is in disposal efficiency- it is so commonly used as a measure of good disposal yet when you have guys like Kane Cornes and Troy Chaplin at the top it begs the question, how accurate is this stat?

I seem to remember hearing that the "difficulty" of the kick will now be introduced, i.e. kicks over 40m, direction (forwards, backwards) will now be accounted for, so that a Joel Bowden chip to the other back pocket will not be equivalent to a probing 50m Isaac Smith i50 which hits its mark. It would be great to have a stat which actually seems to reflect who the best kicks in the side truly are.

 

[Forzaport]

Chaplin almost requires his own stat. Most of his kicks are fine but virtually all of his bad kicks result in goals to the opposition.

I propose that ineffective kicks should be broken down into 4 categories of increasing badness.

1) kick backwards to teammate (no switch play)
2) kick to nowhere
3) kick to opposition
4) Troy Chaplin

 

[Chopperdave]

I think a good stat would be kicks that lead to goals. For instance Buddy has the highest clanger per game average in the league however as a forward his clangers probably don't lead to as many opposition scores as a defender would.

 

[oporto]

Chaplin almost requires his own stat. Most of his kicks are fine but virtually all of his bad kicks result in goals to the opposition.

I propose that ineffective kicks should be broken down into 4 categories of increasing badness.

1) kick backwards to teammate (no switch play)
2) kick to nowhere
3) kick to opposition
4) Troy Chaplin

Something that intrigues me is the continued pay out of Chaplin's kicking when Boak's kicking is far, far worse. Ultimately, it's what I believe is going to hold Boak back from becoming an elite player. His clearance and spread work is great, his disposal not so much

 

[*PAF]

Whoever gets the job will need to go to tech schools and learn how to draw proper lines.

 

[Chopperdave]

Something that intrigues me is the continued pay out of Chaplin's kicking when Boak's kicking is far, far worse. Ultimately, it's what I believe is going to hold Boak back from becoming an elite player. His clearance and spread work is great, his disposal not so much

Because a lot of the time Boak is trying to deliver the ball after breaking out of a pack and bursting away. Chaplins usually just trying to do a simple switch. Which kicks harder?

Also on Boak I know personally that having groin issues plays havoc with your kicking. And no doubt his foot issues last year would have as well. I'm sure with a full pre-season and hopefully a fit body his kicking will be back to what he showed glimpses of pre-groin issues.

Oh and finally one thing I have seen Boak do as well as lots of other players is try and kick the ball at full pace... I've only ever seen at most 5 players who can actually do this effectively. Pickett was the absolute master at this and injury free West Coast Judd could but 99% of players just can't. Ablett is the one who you can see always takes a quick steadying step right before kicking the ball, I think Boak could benefit from trying this out.

 

[oporto]

Because a lot of the time Boak is trying to deliver the ball after breaking out of a pack and bursting away. Chaplins usually just trying to do a simple switch. Which kicks harder?

Also on Boak I know personally that having groin issues plays havoc with your kicking. And no doubt his foot issues last year would have as well. I'm sure with a full pre-season and hopefully a fit body his kicking will be back to what he showed glimpses of pre-groin issues.

Oh and finally one thing I have seen Boak do as well as lots of other players is try and kick the ball at full pace... I've only ever seen at most 5 players who can actually do this effectively. Pickett was the absolute master at this and injury free West Coast Judd could but 99% of players just can't. Ablett is the one who you can see always takes a quick steadying step right before kicking the ball, I think Boak could benefit from trying this out.

A lot of the time Boak is receiving the ball on the fringe of the pack attempting to kick the ball forward. For mine, he's one of the worst kicks in the team. Ever wonder why it was Pearce and not Boak copping the hard tags? He receives far too much praise for someone who is just a player at this stage.

Mind you, according to many we're pushing for top 8 next season so nothing surprises me reading BigFooty anymore

 

[Chopperdave]

A lot of the time Boak is receiving the ball on the fringe of the pack attempting to kick the ball forward. For mine, he's one of the worst kicks in the team. Ever wonder why it was Pearce and not Boak copping the hard tags? He receives far too much praise for someone who is just a player at this stage.

Mind you, according to many we're pushing for top 8 next season so nothing surprises me reading BigFooty anymore

And thats why when he came back from his injury he was in the top 5 for clearances in the league... That to me does not say receiving ball on the fringe... I'm not saying he's Gary Ablett but he is certainly not as bad as you seem to be making him out to be...

 

[oporto]

And thats why when he came back from his injury he was in the top 5 for clearances in the league... That to me does not say receiving ball on the fringe... I'm not saying he's Gary Ablett but he is certainly not as bad as you seem to be making him out to be...

Kicking the football, Boak is far worse than I have put forward. I'm being mindful of not talking down our great white hope to the fullest extent because he signed an inflated contract he didn't deserve instead of going back to Victoria

I don't see the high ceiling with Boak I once saw. He's going to meander along as one of those OK players who will occasionally rip a game apart in between heavily scrutinized will he/won't he contract renewals every couple of seasons

 

[BIG MATTY T]

Kicking the football, Boak is far worse than I have put forward. I'm being mindful of not talking down our great white hope to the fullest extent because he signed an inflated contract he didn't deserve instead of going back to Victoria

I don't see the high ceiling with Boak I once saw. He's going to meander along as one of those OK players who will occasionally rip a game apart in between heavily scrutinized will he/won't he contract renewals every couple of seasons

I swear to god this isn't an alt of mine

 

[Wargreymon90]

Kicking the football, Boak is far worse than I have put forward. I'm being mindful of not talking down our great white hope to the fullest extent because he signed an inflated contract he didn't deserve instead of going back to Victoria

I don't see the high ceiling with Boak I once saw. He's going to meander along as one of those OK players who will occasionally rip a game apart in between heavily scrutinized will he/won't he contract renewals every couple of seasons

Can't agree with this

His kicking isn't amazing, but it's not bad either. His forward 50 entries are usually kicked to the right spots

If he gets his fitness up and becomes a 30 possession player, we wouldn't care about his kicking

 

[Forzaport]

Kicking the football, Boak is far worse than I have put forward. I'm being mindful of not talking down our great white hope to the fullest extent because he signed an inflated contract he didn't deserve instead of going back to Victoria

That's a bit unfair. If we paid all our players what they deserved we'd be nowhere near our minimum TPP requirement. I'm sure Boak's inflated contract is relative to the inflated contracts of his team-mates.

 

[Peck]

Say all you want about Boak having low DE, but no "average kick" can kick the torp that he did at Adelaide Oval last year.

He isn't Pearce or Hartlett level, but he doesn't need to be. He gets the ball in a pack, gets out, and delivers it to a player (not on their chest, or bootstraps, just to them). This is the most valuable asset in football IMO.

Either way, I shouldn't even be arguing this much. All you idiosos will be proven wrong when he wins a brownlow anyway

 

[Portmanteau]

Boak was an excellent kick when he started out, so I can buy the hindered by injury angle.

 

[It Just Is]

Boak was an excellent kick when he started out, so I can buy the hindered by injury angle.

Probably has a lot to do with not being as aerobically fit as he was in 2007 too.

 

[TheFVK]

Boak's kicking is fine, but more to the point who cares? He is an extremely valuable player and with Kane Cornes the only guy who has consistently delivered for us over the past 5 years. If every player put in what Boak has in that time we wouldn't be in the shitheap we are now.

Criticism of Boak is contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.. tall poppy syndrome at its finest

 

[oporto]

Boak's kicking is fine, but more to the point who cares? He is an extremely valuable player and with Kane Cornes the only guy who has consistently delivered for us over the past 5 years. If every player put in what Boak has in that time we wouldn't be in the shitheap we are now.

Criticism of Boak is contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.. tall poppy syndrome at its finest

I care. When one of your supposed prime midfielders is an average (an I use average where I really mean below average) kick and often misses leading forwards people berate the forwards for not kicking enough goals. People have been paying out on the Port Adelaide defenders for years when it's clear as day players like Boak and the other midfielders have been a bigger problem than the forwards or defenders.

Boak is receiving golden haired treatment because he was a first round pick and stayed at Port Adelaide thanks to what's rumoured 600-650 per. I expect him to play like that every year otherwise it's an egregious waste of cap space

 

[Chopperdave]

I care. When one of your supposed prime midfielders is an average (an I use average where I really mean below average) kick and often misses leading forwards people berate the forwards for not kicking enough goals. People have been paying out on the Port Adelaide defenders for years when it's clear as day players like Boak and the other midfielders have been a bigger problem than the forwards or defenders.

Boak is receiving golden haired treatment because he was a first round pick and stayed at Port Adelaide thanks to what's rumoured 600-650 per. I expect him to play like that every year otherwise it's an egregious waste of cap space

Have you ever tried to kick a football with groin issues? If not come back to me when you have and maybe then you will understand why Boaks kicking hasn't been as good as it looked like it would become.

 

[King_Tredrea]

For me, Boak is the choice. I would say Hammer but i think its important he finds his best footy first.

 

[TheFVK]

I care. When one of your supposed prime midfielders is an average (an I use average where I really mean below average) kick and often misses leading forwards people berate the forwards for not kicking enough goals. People have been paying out on the Port Adelaide defenders for years when it's clear as day players like Boak and the other midfielders have been a bigger problem than the forwards or defenders.

Boak is receiving golden haired treatment because he was a first round pick and stayed at Port Adelaide thanks to what's rumoured 600-650 per. I expect him to play like that every year otherwise it's an egregious waste of cap space

He is by far the closest thing we have had to a consistently performing attacking midfielder for 5 years yet you choose to level your criticism at him? Until the rest of our team can match the standard that Boak has set over the past 5 years then I don't even see why we are discussing him. Talk about addressing the wrong issues!