Next Coach

Sep 4, 2004
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You don't think that might be the new shiny coach effect? I remember the same with Bolton in his early days at Carlton, and years later he's still trying to claim the "we're only young" - his shine has almost worn off completely finally. In my experience you can work some PR magic to distract but until you start actually performing it's all just smoke and mirrors. Melbourne showed glimpses and hope like Brisbane, then seemed in a perpetual rebuild and people had given up on them as recently as the early rounds of this season... now they're flying. We've endured tougher times, I'm still optimistic we can do a Melbourne but more quickly, and not end up a St Kilda.

Maybe. You could be right but if you look at each coach getting a crack at a rebuild we they arrive the current Melbourne rebuild is four years old. We won't be quicker than that, that's for sure.
 

jedi mind tricks

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Let's be honest there's only so many top coaches and more teams than ever.

Ross has been a proven coach. Let's not dismiss that.

Unless a deal can be struck with the best coach and the skills and fitness staff to compliment I wouldn't just axe Ross.
 
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I'd take their best effort and style of footy away from home compared to our heartless play away from home.

Go compare some of the teams away games.
I must be watching different Brisbane games, they play bad, dumb and often pretty ugly footy from what I've seen. A bit understandable because of the cattle out there but I wouldn't be pumping their efforts up too much.

Fagan also loves making excuses..
 
Sep 4, 2004
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I must be watching different Brisbane games, they play bad, dumb and often pretty ugly footy from what I've seen. A bit understandable because of the cattle out there but I wouldn't be pumping their efforts up too much.

Fagan also loves making excuses..

Wouldn't be too hard to EFA and for that to sound like our last three years.
 

Rion

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Let's be honest there's only so many top coaches and more teams than ever.

Ross has been a proven coach. Let's not dismiss that.

Unless a deal can be struck with the best coach and the skills and fitness staff to compliment I wouldn't just axe Ross.

Ross is proven as a coach of an experienced list (and even then ultimately hasn't won the chocolates). I don't think you could say right now he's proven to be a good developer of a list/young talent which is where we are right now and will be for the foreseeable future. Guys like Longmuir and Caracella certainly aren't guarantees but neither were Clarko, Simpson, Bevo etc when they were recruited.
 
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Melbourne last played finals in 2006 didn't they? I'm hopeful we'll be quicker than that ;)

So if Ross gets moved on you dint expect the new coach to get 3-4 years to do their thing?

Every coach starts afresh when they suck and they get a new coach.

Roos instigated a plan that turned them around in four years.

Ross has not.
 

jedi mind tricks

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Ross is proven as a coach of an experienced list (and even then ultimately hasn't won the chocolates). I don't think you could say right now he's proven to be a good developer of a list/young talent which is where we are right now and will be for the foreseeable future. Guys like Longmuir and Caracella certainly aren't guarantees but neither were Clarko, Simpson, Bevo etc when they were recruited.

I'm not implying that he's a good developer

I've been critical of player development in the past. My mate Salim said I'm wrong but I have stood firm and also suggested that our development coaches may also be a problem.
 

wayToGo_

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So if Ross gets moved on you dint expect the new coach to get 3-4 years to do their thing?

Every coach starts afresh when they suck and they get a new coach.

Roos instigated a plan that turned them around in four years.

Ross has not.
If you are inheriting a half decent list then the expectation shouldn't be 3-4 years. Ross didn't take 3-4 years to have us playing finals and contending when he first arrived did he? We played in a GF in 2013 (his 2nd year) and I don't think our list was amazing. If he had taken 3-4 years to have us competitive (not necessarily reaching a GF) I very much doubt he'd still be our coach. No matter who our coach is I'll be disappointed if we aren't contending again in 2020/21 given the anticipated development of our youngsters for the remainder of this year and next.
 

Purplrrr

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The Melbourne scenario again. Not that Ross is the be all and end all. I really don't believe that. I'm ambivalent at the moment. But Melbourne didn't just start rebuilding four years ago. I'm not completely down with all their players but don't they have a heap of high draft picks from their completely awful years? And they didn't play finals last year anyway... Melbournes arrival has been a loooooooong time coming. So if that's the logic, we can afford to give Ross a lot longer too!
 

fnerd

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I think you'll find most supporters would agree with this. The question is who does have a game plan that works with a list like ours atm?

The teams playing a B22 24 years or younger this round are us, Gold Coast, Brisbane, and St Kilda. We are playing the most inexperienced side of those. Every other club is playing a B22 with an average 25 years+ and with a heap more experience. The other younger teams with a bye are Carlton and the Dogs who have been playing around 24.5+. Not exactly an inspiring list of teams is it? They all sit below us on the ladder.

Lyon is far from faultless. His team selections at times I've often found unimaginative and risk adverse, especially at the start of the past two seasons. I'd also like to see us more willing to pull the trigger earlier within games to make changes and be a bit more experimental as well with our structures and personnel positioning. But these are just my opinions and I have no idea if we'd be better or worse if we did. Could a new coach bring something new and exciting? Probably. Would our "rebuild" be any further along? I doubt it.

I think Lyon deserves to be held accountable for the things he is responsible for - game plans, structures, player development. But I think too often supporters don't put our situation in the full context. Our list management has clearly been poor in the past and we're feeling the effects now. Our injury list is perpetually massive - missing almost half our B22 atm aren't we? And retrospectively we should have foreseen this and pumped experience into some of our younger players earlier on (eg in 2015 and risked not finishing minor premiers).

Our club has put us in a position where we need to play 13+ <50 game players, and Ross does deserve some criticism for that. But now that we are here isn't the only way out of it making good decisions through the rebuild and push through some tough years whilst our youngsters develop and gain experience whilst retaining our key experienced leaders? I don't enjoy watching us play much at all either currently but I also accept it's inevitable given the state of our list.

If I can't be optimistic about the future then I don't see the point of staying a supporter. I'll back in our players because all AFL players are good footballers and I've seen plenty of 'spuds' turn into great role players when all the pieces come together. I'll back in our recruitment team because despite making mistakes in the past I think lately they've done well. And whilst he's our coach I'll give Ross the benefit of the doubt most of the time as I truly don't believe any other AFL coach would have us playing much better at this point in time. But I'm also not averse to investigating and discussing the benefits an alternative senior coach (or assistants) might make in the future once our current list matures.

We shouldn't need to all agree to have civil debate without resorting to name calling and labelling. Although the West Coast lovers in here lately can truly **** off - we don't need continuous reminders they are doing well - we have every mainstream media source in WA doing that for us.
Succinctly put WTG
The reality of the situation is pretty much this.
If by this time next year we haven't started to see a shift in momentum well then yeah Ross is in trouble.
Until then back the guy and the club in I say
 

blue shark

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If you are inheriting a half decent list then the expectation shouldn't be 3-4 years. Ross didn't take 3-4 years to have us playing finals and contending when he first arrived did he? We played in a GF in 2013 (his 2nd year) and I don't think our list was amazing. If he had taken 3-4 years to have us competitive (not necessarily reaching a GF) I very much doubt he'd still be our coach. No matter who our coach is I'll be disappointed if we aren't contending again in 2020/21 given the anticipated development of our youngsters for the remainder of this year and next.
New ideas, coach and you wonder if we would even line up the way we are now? For the life of me I can't understand
why they are trying to get midfield minutes into Harley. I would just have him play forward period.
Half forward has been our death sentence for years, we don't have a clue with some of the selection's.
 

fnerd

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The team doesn't get a get out of jail card for piss poor planning which sees us having such a young team and Ross not having a plan B.

It's as simple as that for me.

I disagree that no one else has a game plan that would fit a younger team better. Fagan seems to have an air of optimism around the Lions. I don't care about win-loss but I do care about young players feeling stifled and ground down by Ross' plan A.
That last paragraph is (apart from being nonsense) is nothing more than a personal view from the outside looking in an making assumption based on a "vibe".

Brisbane have been s**t for the best part of ten years and continue to be so .
Despite starting their rebuild years before us their STILL behind us .

but then you think Melbourne are the light to which all other teams should aspire for the way to rebuild so I'm not in the least bit surprised by your views
 
May 13, 2007
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Lyontology Koolaiders v The Foaming Brick throwers.

I have to admit that I am chuckling a little at the undertones of ‘i guess you are entitled to an opinion but the moral superiority of my argument is obvious and absolute’ from both sides...:cool:
 

Purplrrr

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My nightmare is the Melbourne rebuild. Shudder. If a crystal ball could tell us that we were going to be as embarrassing as Melbourne were for a long as they were, yet at the end of it, to come out and play lovely footy like this year after however long, Im still not sure I'd take it.
 
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So...hypothetically, let’s just say Lyon was replaced today with your coach of choice.

How long would folks give said new coach to turn us into a competitive finals team?
 
Sep 4, 2004
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That last paragraph is (apart from being nonsense) is nothing more than a personal view from the outside looking in an making assumption based on a "vibe".

Brisbane have been s**t for the best part of ten years and continue to be so .
Despite starting their rebuild years before us their STILL behind us .

but then you think Melbourne are the light to which all other teams should aspire for the way to rebuild so I'm not in the least bit surprised by your views

Everything is fine.

Everyone plays crap, ugly footy and can't rebuild and we are going great winning about a quarter of our games for three years and having around a 40% percentage away from home this year.

Ross is good. Ross is great.

Let's bookmark and revisit if you are up for it. Happy to start a time capsule thread where we just state how this is going to play out. You game?
 
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Let's bookmark and revisit if you are up for it. Happy to start a time capsule thread where we just state how this is going to play out. You game?

Creating a thread specifically for the purpose of facilitating future “I told you so’s” and “I was right, you were wrong” posts seems a bit silly doesn’t it?
 

tonygeeks

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Tbf you d say about that But it's not exactly as linear as that
let's just say rl is replaced end of this year , well then the new coach is at the advantage of the ground work put in these last 2 years so does come into consideration or is it a clean slate?

Didn't Lyon get the advantage of a ready to go list at the start of his tenure ?

Does he bear no responsibility for where we are at now ?

Why should Lyon get a clean slate but not the new coach ?


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