Next Generation

[big_e]

Test cricket gets its name as it refers to any sports game or match between two different nations. Similar to Netball or Rugby. The reason we call the 5 day games Test matches and not the white balls, is to distinguish the formats of cricket

Test match was first used to describe cricket matches from the 1860s. It was a South Australian author named Clarence Moody who, in the 1890s, named a list of intercolonial matches he thought met the standard of a test match up to that point, and the name caught on.

Any other sports that use it picked it up from cricket.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Well, the 2023 Ashes probably disproves your point about Todd Murphy, but generally speaking, you don't know uncompetitive until it's too late.

I think it’s hypocritical to have a go at South Africa for leaving out some of their first XI and in the next breath say it’s fine for us to leave out some of our first XI. We could probably beat Zimbabwe in a test match with our second XI - would you feel comfortable doing that? We'd still be competitive, at least.

The broader point is that test cricket gets its name because it is the toughest cricket. It’s the best vs the best, in the hardest conditions, under the most pressure. The second you start leaving people out, you degrade it. It loses the thing that makes it special.

And at a time when test cricket is under enormous pressure, it’s not hard to see a test nation go ”* this, if even Australia doesn’t treat it as special, then we’re out”, and stop playing tests altogether. Next minute we’re left with Australia, England and India in a big circle jerk until the law of diminishing returns rears its ugly head, and test cricket is but a memory.

i didn't say some.

i said one.

I said quite clearly that I'm not suggesting we do what South Africa did. yet you ignore it? South Africa left players out to prioritize T20, I'm suggesting leaving a spinner out for another proven spinner, for the sake of developing the next generation further. They are completely different things.

Murphy isn't some unproven kid. He has played 6 tests and has a bowling avg of 25 and he deserves a crack on the home deck.

We dont agree, that's fine, but at least read what's written..............

Also not sure what you are talking about Murphy RE the 2023 Ashes? he was pivotal in the 5th test at the Oval? 2/22 in the 1st innings and then 4/110 in the second? Cummins was 1/66 and 1/79 by comparison...........

 

[corbies]

It's just a shame that Todd Murphy will have to moved on by the time he is a world class spinner as Tanveer Sangha or Nathan Hauritz Jnr need to be given Test experience.

 

[eth-dog]

It's just a shame that Todd Murphy will have to moved on by the time he is a world class spinner as Tanveer Sangha or Nathan Hauritz Jnr need to be given Test experience.

Sangha is one year younger than Murphy

 

[big_e]

i didn't say some.

i said one.

I said quite clearly that I'm not suggesting we do what South Africa did. yet you ignore it? South Africa left players out to prioritize T20, I'm suggesting leaving a spinner out for another proven spinner, for the sake of developing the next generation further. They are completely different things.

Murphy isn't some unproven kid. He has played 6 tests and has a bowling avg of 25 and he deserves a crack on the home deck.

We dont agree, that's fine, but at least read what's written..............

Also not sure what you are talking about Murphy RE the 2023 Ashes? he was pivotal in the 5th test at the Oval? 2/22 in the 1st innings and then 4/110 in the second? Cummins was 1/66 and 1/79 by comparison...........

You initially said "some younger guys", then specified 1-2 vs Pakistan and West Indies. I'm wondering how many it might be against other teams.

You now also say Todd Murphy is proven, which begs the question as to why he should be getting matches for his development. Shouldn't those games be going to someone else then?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

You initially said "some younger guys", then specified 1-2 vs Pakistan and West Indies. I'm wondering how many it might be against other teams.

You now also say Todd Murphy is proven, which begs the question as to why he should be getting matches for his development. Shouldn't those games be going to someone else then?

He has not played a test on home soil.

i'd like to see him tested in our conditions.

 

[big_e]

He has not played a test on home soil.

i'd like to see him tested in our conditions.

His time will come.

 

[toml]

He has not played a test on home soil.

i'd like to see him tested in our conditions.

Got smashed in the PM's XI match as well as getting belted in the shield recently. Averaging 58 with the ball in the shield this year. He doesn't deserve a test spot at the moment, not even close.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Got smashed in the PM's XI match as well as getting belted in the shield recently. Averaging 58 with the ball in the shield this year. He doesn't deserve a test spot at the moment, not even close.

Exactly. He's a talent but goodness knows why people want to rush this. Lyon is fit and has at least 3 years left. Murphy/Kuhermann maybe Sangha will play some tests as that 2nd or third option if conditions dictate

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Got smashed in the PM's XI match as well as getting belted in the shield recently. Averaging 58 with the ball in the shield this year. He doesn't deserve a test spot at the moment, not even close.

I'm not suggesting he replace Lyon full time, but give him a crack is all could have had 2 spinners at the SCG for instance.

Sheild performance doesn't get Bancroft a shot, but works against Murphy? I dont entirely buy that.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Exactly. He's a talent but goodness knows why people want to rush this. Lyon is fit and has at least 3 years left. Murphy/Kuhermann maybe Sangha will play some tests as that 2nd or third option if conditions dictate

No one's suggesting the immediate replacement of Lyon. But IMO Murphy could have had a crack at the SCG, even if alongside Lyon.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

No one's suggesting the immediate replacement of Lyon. But IMO Murphy could have had a crack at the SCG, even if alongside Lyon.

No he couldn't especially on that pitch! You'd have Marsh odds on to break down Murphy is in terrible form this summer. How about he just gets better domestically first.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

No he couldn't especially on that pitch! You'd have Marsh odds on to break down Murphy is in terrible form this summer. How about he just gets better domestically first.

So on that measure Bancroft should be taking Warners's spot?

And what are you talking about the pitch? There was plenty out there for the spinners. Did you not see the Pakistan spinners causing issues? Marnus wants a word with you.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

So on that measure Bancroft should be taking Warners's spot?

Not sure how you got to comparing apples and oranges.

Seriously Murphy is barely taking a wicket since he’s been back after the Ashes series. It’s not a big deal and he has time. We have Lyon fit and in the side for 3 years at lesst

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Not sure how you got to comparing apples and oranges.

Seriously Murphy is barely taking a wicket since he’s been back after the Ashes series. It’s not a big deal and he has time. We have Lyon fit and in the side for 3 years at lesst

hardly apples and oranges. You are saying that domestic performance is key to selection? if it is than bancroft should be walk up start to warners spot.

I am not saying replace Lyon now, you keep alluding to it but I'm not saying it.

I'm saying give the younger guys experience at test level. That doesn't mean getting rid of Lyon full time.

Anyways I'm repeating myself now, so I'll leave it.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

hardly apples and oranges. You are saying that domestic performance is key to selection? if it is than bancroft should be walk up start to warners spot.

I am not saying replace Lyon now, you keep alluding to it but I'm not saying it.

I'm saying give the younger guys experience at test level. That doesn't mean getting rid of Lyon full time.

Anyways I'm repeating myself now, so I'll leave it.

A tours are where you give experience, taking them on extended overseas tours too. You aren’t leaving out bowlers with 500 plus wickets or one of the other 3.

 

[western royboy]

No one's suggesting the immediate replacement of Lyon. But IMO Murphy could have had a crack at the SCG, even if alongside Lyon.

We have 3 fast bowlers who rightly sit in the top echelon of quicks that we’ve had - the pitch hasn’t necessitated two spinners for a long time particularly two of the same variety (Warne & Macgill we’re different bowlers even thought they were both right arm leg spinners) - Baggy Green Caps and Test Matches don’t get handed out too easily in this day and age for a variety of reasons. Last year I think I’m right in saying was the lowest number of Test Matches ever played in a calendar year in a long time - no one should be gifted a game - it’s the highest level for a reason

 

[10Dulkar]

Hardie and McSweeney have just been namechecked by Bailey in his presser. I'd love to know on what basis Renshaw is better than Hardie if it isn't a question of versatility. It's obviously an insurance policy.

In terms of bowlers he mentioned Paris, Steketee and Neser.

 

[The 747]

Hardie and McSweeney have just been namechecked by Bailey in his presser. I'd love to know on what basis Renshaw is better than Hardie if it isn't a question of versatility. It's obviously an insurance policy.

In terms of bowlers he mentioned Paris, Steketee and Neser.

I think Hardie is coming up pretty quickly - but he would need to be selected as a pure batter (his stats say that is doable though). Two all rounders means one barely bowls, as we are about to see.

 

[Rich the babe Evans]

I think Hardie is coming up pretty quickly - but he would need to be selected as a pure batter (his stats say that is doable though). Two all rounders means one barely bowls, as we are about to see.

Cam Green has kidney issues, which means he's ****ed after bowling... See him as being a pure batter soon enough

 

[eth-dog]

I think Hardie is coming up pretty quickly - but he would need to be selected as a pure batter (his stats say that is doable though). Two all rounders means one barely bowls, as we are about to see.

His average is boosted by a lot of not outs by batting 7. Let's see how it goes now that he's at 5

 

[Coops93]

Players understand too that possession is 9/10ths the law.

At every level - test spot, Shield spot.

What if your fill in tons up?

Don't leave it to chance.

We have a perfect example of it right now, Mitch Marsh pinched Greens spot in what was supposedly a one off to cover for a small niggle that Green needed to be rested for.

Turns out Marsh has been our best batter ever since & Green hasn't had a gig since, and is only back in due to a retirement.

 

[hugecannon]

Test icon Greg Chappell has promoted youth in Australian cricket to the point of backlash. He sees a problem looming as David Warner and other greats depart, writes SHANNON GILL.

Greg Chappell reckons the days of a face fresh out of school debuting for Australia are all but over.

“That was one of our great strengths, there was always a place for an exciting young cricketer coming through,” Chappell says.

“We’ve now seen players play on much longer because they get well paid, and that’s fine, but you need to have a robust selection process so that the very best young cricketers are getting an opportunity.

“Otherwise, you’re going to have a lot of players debuting at 27, 28, 29 years of age and there’s not a lot of cricket left in them.

“A 22-year-old has probably a 10-12 year span in front of them. The others have got a five or six-year span.”

Regardless of which way the selectors go and notwithstanding the success, the Warner replacement question illuminates the dearth of young batters knocking down the door through Sheffield Shield performances.

Ahead of the current round, only two of the top 10 run scorers this season (Nathan McSweeney and Renshaw) will be under 30 by the time the first Test starts.

For some, this may be indicative of a hardened professional competition that produces Test players for now rather than the future.

Chappell is not convinced. While so many are wary of raw youth, he worries about players left marinating too long in Shield cricket.

“It’s an issue that we haven’t quite realised yet. I think that’s something we’re probably going to find when the Warners, Smiths and a few others finish up.

“What is there to replace them? Will there be any exciting young cricketers or will they be all 27, 28, 29-year-old players? If you play a lot of first class cricket you adapt to that level, then to make the step up is a bit harder.”

I think he’s way off the mark here, the young players coming through at the moment haven’t had anything close to consistent performances to justify picking them and the ones that have had some were generally given opportunities in the test side.

Pucovski was picked after not a huge number of games but has unfortunately battled injuries and mental health issues through his career.

Green was picked after a couple of years as a 21(?) year old and has played 20+ tests now with not to be unexpectedly inconsistent returns.

Renshaw was picked early and given a run without nailing his spot and his form since being dropped is patchy at best.

There are plenty of other batsman who
Have been given opportunities over the last 4-5 years but none have shown that they are irreplaceable.

Bowling has been more of an issue as the longevity and durability of our attack has been remarkable over the past 5-6 years.

 

[Coops93]

I think he’s way off the mark here, the young players coming through at the moment haven’t had anything close to consistent performances to justify picking them and the ones that have had some were generally given opportunities in the test side.

Pucovski was picked after not a huge number of games but has unfortunately battled injuries and mental health issues through his career.

Green was picked after a couple of years as a 21(?) year old and has played 20+ tests now with not to be unexpectedly inconsistent returns.

Renshaw was picked early and given a run without nailing his spot and his form since being dropped is patchy at best.

There are plenty of other batsman who
Have been given opportunities over the last 4-5 years but none have shown that they are irreplaceable.

Bowling has been more of an issue as the longevity and durability of our attack has been remarkable over the past 5-6 years.

If not for the injuries I think Richardson would've been consistently pushing for a spot, making at least a rotation occur more often if not regularly.

 

[9874123]

Xavier Bartlett was brilliant in his international debut against the WI. Figure of 4/17 in 9 overs on a pretty flat track.