NFL NFL Stadiums Discussion

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Raiders continue flirting with Las Vegas as 49ers continue banking Levi’s money–and it’s all connected

Latest franchise values show why in the NFL, new stadiums are worth their weight in cash

By Mark Purdy | mpurdy@bayareanewsgroup.com
PUBLISHED: September 15, 2016 at 3:49 pm | UPDATED: September 15, 2016 at 7:36 pm


The Raiders are not yet bound for Las Vegas. But after Thursday, they are theoretically and metaphorically cruising somewhere between Modesto and Fresno on the route to Southern Nevada.

The 49ers are not yet the richest team in the National Football League. But after Thursday, they have to be wondering how much more money they will be worth if they again have the Bay Area to themselves.

All of it is connected. In the NFL, everything is connected to each other, usually with a dollar sign preceding the connection.

And more than ever, Northern California’s two franchises are linked in a business sense, depending on how events spool out.

Thursday’s news from Vegas was that a governmental oversight committee, which was charged with deciding if it would be a good idea to raise local hotel taxes that would pay for almost 40 percent of a proposed Raiders stadium, in fact did decide to recommend the tax — which, of course, would be paid by tourists, not the committee members. This keeps the momentum going on the proposal, although there are still many hurdles to surmount. Nevada’s governor and legislature (with members from all over the state, not just Las Vegas) must now approve the plan. The legislature’s next scheduled meeting is in January, although there’s pressure on the governor to call a special session just to consider the Raiders’ stadium.

The idea is to get things in order so that NFL owners can vote up or down on a franchise move in January, before the Super Bowl. Three quarters of the owners would have to approve.

If everybody seems to be in a rush to get things done, there is a good reason. Or didn’t you see the latest annual Forbes rankings? You know, of the NFL’s most valuable franchises?

The magazine issued those numbers earlier this week. The Dallas Cowboys are No. 1, with an estimated valuation of $4.2 billion. The 49ers were fourth, behind the Patriots and Giants, with an estimated worth of $3 billion and an operating profit of $154 million. The Raiders are 20th with a valuation of $2.1 billion and an operating profit of $46 million, lowest in the league.

So, you wonder why the Raiders want a new stadium? Anywhere? New stadiums are the ATM machines of the 21st Century for NFL teams. The Raiders actually jumped up in value 47 percent this year simply because they might have new stadium possibilities — either in Las Vegas or Los Angeles, or perhaps even Oakland, if that city can finally put together a real proposal.

There’s so much to sort out here, but let’s go over as many points as we can in the space we have available, with special attention to the Raiders’ timeline in the months ahead:

— If you ever doubted why the 49ers wanted to build Levi’s Stadium and move to Santa Clara, the Forbes figures tell the tale. Levi’s may have its critics. Fans who purchased seat licenses to help finance the project may be peeved because of the team’s performance. But the bottom line for the 49ers’ bottom line has been fabulous. Thanks to the Silicon Valley corporate sponsorships, luxury suite leases, the stadium club revenues, as well as those seat licenses and ticket revenue … well, it’s fulfilled every financial expectation for the franchise and more.

— The Raiders, of course, are envious of every other NFL team with a reasonably new stadium, not just the 49ers. So while the focus is on Las Vegas at the moment, they are actually making a three-pronged assault in pursuit of a new home. Los Angeles is hardly off the table. The NFL’s deal with Los Angeles Rams owner Stan Kroenke requires him to share his new stadium in Inglewood with another team that agrees to the league’s conditions. The San Diego Chargers have the first option, which expires in January. If the Chargers succeed in getting their own stadium plan passed this autumn, they would obviously not exercise the LA clause. The Raiders would then have the next crack to co-habit with the Rams. That’s another reason Las Vegas wants to rush the Raiders deal. The Nevada folks want team owner Mark Davis to sign with them before any LA option comes open.

— Why would the Raiders select Los Angeles instead of Las Vegas? Let us return to those Forbes numbers. Large-market teams are generally worth more than smaller-market teams. The Rams’ valuation increased 100 percent to $2.9 billion simply by moving from St. Louis to Los Angeles, putting them sixth on the list, just ahead of the New York Jets and Chicago Bears. Half of the Los Angeles market is worth a lot more than the Las Vegas market. And yes, the Raiders have been smart enough to use that leverage, quietly reminding Las Vegas officials about the potential LA open door in January.

— Concerns by NFL owners about a franchise moving to America’s gambling capital seem to have abated. The Cowboys’ Jerry Jones, probably the league’s most powerful proprietor, has been warming to the idea. Where Jones leads, his colleagues usually follow.

— Something to remember: This isn’t just about football. Teams with state-of-the-art stadiums make a lot of money from concerts and other sports events held in their stadiums. Jones’ palace in Dallas is a fulcrum of big events. This weekend, Beyoncé is playing at Levi’s Stadium, not at the Oakland Coliseum. The 49ers have hosted host weddings and corporate affairs at Levi’s Stadium, not to mention WrestleMania and the Grateful Dead. Ironically, this could be where the Las Vegas stadium project runs into support problems from the city’s business community. There are already plenty of entertainment venues in Vegas. Some of them may not appreciate a new huge venue coming on line that could take away some of that action — especially with the stadium developers demanding tax breaks that would not apply to those “legacy” venues.

— Is there anything happening in Oakland? Not publicly. A group headed by Hall of Fame 49er and Raider Ronnie Lott has met several times with Oakland and Alameda County officials. But if there has been any traction with the Raiders and NFL, you’d think we would have heard about it by now.

— The 49ers are in the driver’s seat, no matter what happens. Team owner Jed York, who has said that he supports Davis in his new stadium quest (why not?), is a member of the NFL’s Stadium Committee, which monitors the facility-building efforts everywhere. That means York’s voice will carry weight with other owners as all this is decided. Unless a miracle pops up in Oakland, therefore, York will be position to help guide his closest geographic competitor to a soft landing elsewhere — as the 49ers keep ascending on the Forbes list. Life is good in Santa Clara with that $154 million operating income. Life in Oakland isn’t horrible with that $46 million positive number. Both owners thank you for buying those $12 beers. One of them hopes to sell you one in a new stadium soon. The Forbes dashboard explains why.
 

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Visited Fed Ex Field (Skins stadium) again last weekend. Redskins have zero home field advantage and that stadium literally has zero character. I'm with a lot of Skins fans hoping that the next stadium is smaller and more conducive to creating fan noise like good old RFK was. Location of a new future stadium is still TBD. Looking more like Northern Virginia prevails but I know many fans want it built at the old RFK location or in downtown DC.
 
Brad Humphreys, who has done a number of such studies as an economics professor at West Virginia University, told me bluntly that a new stadium brings “no economic benefit.” All it does is move spending to a football game that was otherwise being spent somewhere else.

Exactly. Other than the temporary construction jobs for the stadium, football does not create new revenue out of thin air. Such a ridiculous argument. See that argument made a lot around the internet.
 
Brad Humphreys, who has done a number of such studies as an economics professor at West Virginia University, told me bluntly that a new stadium brings “no economic benefit.” All it does is move spending to a football game that was otherwise being spent somewhere else.

Exactly. Other than the temporary construction jobs for the stadium, football does not create new revenue out of thin air. Such a ridiculous argument. See that argument made a lot around the internet.

The stadium itself, no. No one is really disputing that. But when you're the entertainment capital of the country, and your city lives on tourism, adding additional tourism events is going to increase the economy.

No one can really compare the Las Vegas proposal to any other, because there is not another economy in the USA that operates in the same way of Vegas'.
 
Santa Clara threatens to take over management of Levi’s Stadium
Posted by Mike Florio on October 29, 2016, 9:37 PM EDT
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The 49ers’ bad year on the field could become even worse off it.

Via NBC Bay Area, the mayor of Santa Clara has threatened to seize control of Levi’s Stadium if the team doesn’t comply with contractual obligations to disclose budgetary information regarding the venue.

“We have to stop the bleeding of the General Fund money into the stadium. It’s against the law,” Mayor Lisa Gillmore said. “If they don’t cure the breach, we are going to take steps to take back management of the stadium.”

The lack of documentation prevents the powers-that-be from determining their cut of any non-NFL activities at the stadium, and to assess whether taxpayer money has been used improperly for football-related expenses, such as field maintenance. An independent auditor told NBC Bay Area that it is possible the field has been reseeded multiple times with public funds.

The 49ers said in a statement issued to NBC Bay Area that the requested information will be provided to the auditor on Monday. It’s unclear whether the team provided an explanation for the failure to make the data available earlier.
 
Visited Fed Ex Field (Skins stadium) again last weekend. Redskins have zero home field advantage and that stadium literally has zero character. I'm with a lot of Skins fans hoping that the next stadium is smaller and more conducive to creating fan noise like good old RFK was. Location of a new future stadium is still TBD. Looking more like Northern Virginia prevails but I know many fans want it built at the old RFK location or in downtown DC.
I hear that with a lot of the newer stadiums (especially Dallas) in that they've lost a lot of the intimacy that made older stadiums such an advantage for the home teams largely due to their design.
 
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NFL wants nothing to do with proposed Las Vegas stadium


vegas-stadium.jpg


The city of Las Vegas is exploring the possibility of building a massive new “Mega-Event Center” on the UNLV campus that would rival Cowboys Stadium in regards to its size and excess. The stadium would be able to host a number of major events if it is built, although it’s still in the development phase right now and hasn’t been approved.

Proponents of the stadium plan have floated the possibility of the NFL bringing the Pro Bowl or preseason games to the new stadium as possible events that could generate nearly $400 million in money for the city.

One little problem remains, however, the NFL’s approval.

According to Alan Snel of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, the league would likely not consider hosting any events in Las Vegas due to sports gambling.
The league would need to approve Las Vegas as a location of any preseason game to be held in the city. With the NFL still fighting the state of New Jersey with a lawsuit to keep sports gambling out of the Garden State, the league would look pretty hypocritical for looking to host events in Las Vegas.

New York Giants owner John Mara has said he doesn’t believe “there is a chance in the world” the NFL would allow another Super Bowl to be hosted at Metlife Stadium if they fail to win their lawsuit against the state of New Jersey. If the NFL is unwilling to allow one of the most powerful owners in the league to host another Super Bowl in the largest media market in the country because of sports gambling, the thought Las Vegas would be able to host any NFL event is pretty much zero.
Lol, the irony in hindsight :p
 
I hear that with a lot of the newer stadiums (especially Dallas) in that they've lost a lot of the intimacy that made older stadiums such an advantage for the home teams largely due to their design.

It's not the intimacy, it's the simple fact that tickets for new stadiums cost an arm and a leg to go to the games. New stadiums more or less effectively price out the majority of the average joes in the world, leaving stadiums to become for the most part, corporate city.
 
It's not the intimacy, it's the simple fact that tickets for new stadiums cost an arm and a leg to go to the games. New stadiums more or less effectively price out the majority of the average joes in the world, leaving stadiums to become for the most part, corporate city.
On this,
A couple I met at the super bowl have been season ticket holders for years
The move of stadiums in Atlanta has caused them to go from lower tier on the 50 to upper tier in the corner and it's still the same price.

Huge price jump!
 
The opening of the Rams' new stadium in Inglewood, Cal. has been delayed from 2019 to 2020.

The delay has been blamed on "record rainfall" during the "mass excavation phase" of the 70,240-seat stadium. It means the Rams will have to spend at least three more years in the crumbling Coliseum, while the Chargers will be playing in a pint-sized soccer stadium. Stadium construction is never straightforward, particularly in Los Angeles. Owner Stan Kroenke will be 73 when his palace finally opens.


Source: Los Angeles Times
May 18 - 1:15 PM
 

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Much ado about nothing, really. The games are still going to be on the books. You're still going to be able to bet on the games using a mobile.

Turns out I'll most likely be checking out Stubhub Center this year. Looking forward to seeing how a small 'intimate' crowd changes the atmosphere of a NFL game.
It'll be like watching a Rugby League game :p
 
It'll be like watching a Rugby League game :p

Yeah I figured it would be similar to going to AAMI Park in Melbourne or up on the Gold Coast at Robina.

Have paid almost 1500 for two tickets so unlike the O.Co Coliseum, the sewerage better not be an issue!
 
Jerry Jones on rising stadium prices for fans....

"In-game attendance makes up only 7% of NFL fans".

Jerry and the rest of the NFL are focusing on TV and fans with money to blow.
The NFL has no care for blue collar fans attending games. Sit your ass on the couch they say, we make plenty of money off you that way.
 
California Supreme Court makes it easier for San Diego to build a stadium

Posted by Mike Florio on August 28, 2017, 9:08 PM EDT

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Getty Images

A long-awaited ruling from the California Supreme Court will do nothing to bring the Chargers home, but it could ultimately help lure another team to town.

Via Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune, the highest court in the nation’s most populated state ruled on Monday that a “citizens’ initiative” to raise taxes requires only a simply majority of votes at the ballot box, and not a two-thirds supermajority.

Of course, this doesn’t mean the Chargers would have prevailed in their effort to secure public funding for a new stadium. Only 43.64 percent approved the measure last year, at a time when the threshold was believed to be 66.7 percent.

It does mean that, if enough folks in San Diego regret the departure of the Chargers, enough could get behind a citizens’ initiative aimed at funding a stadium that would bring a franchise with wanderlust (and an unsatisfactory stadium situation) to town. Currently, no teams fit that bill; however, as current stadiums become obsolete (which will happen as more and more state-of-the-art stadiums open), teams will want to build new venues. So if taxpayer money isn’t available in a team’s current city and another city is offering a free money (and perhaps a larger market), more moves may occur.

After 20 years of stability, three teams have secured approval to move in little more than 18 months. Although that rate surely won’t continue, more moves are likely as less taxpayer money is available. For cities that can muster taxpayer money, they could be in play to pilfer a team.
 
I caught some highlights of Superbowl XXV recently in the Big Sombrero in Tampa and I got to wondering what Superbowl stadiums are still around.

For what it's worth:

KEY : Green - still hosting an NFL team. Blue - still in existence. Red - gone

Los Angeles Coliseum - Super Bowl I
Orange Bowl - Super Bowl II
Orange Bowl - Super Bowl III
Tulane Stadium - Super Bowl IV
Orange Bowl - Super Bowl V
Tulane Stadium - Super Bowl VI

Los Angeles Coliseum - Super Bowl VII
Rice Stadium - Super Bowl VIII
Tulane Stadium - Super Bowl IX
Orange Bowl - Super Bowl X

Rose Bowl - Super Bowl XI
Superdome - Super Bowl XII
Orange Bowl - Super Bowl XIII
Rose Bowl - Super Bowl XIV
Superdome - Super Bowl XV
Silverdome - Super Bowl XVI
Rose Bowl - Super Bowl XVII
Tampa Stadium - Super Bowl XVIII
Stanford Stadium - Super Bowl XIX (original demolished and rebuilt)
Superdome - Super Bowl XX
Rose Bowl - Super Bowl XXI
Jack Murphy Stadium - Super Bowl XXII

Joe Robbie Stadium - Super Bowl XXIII
Superdome - Super Bowl XXIV

Tampa Stadium - Super Bowl XXV
Metrodome - Super Bowl XXVI

Rose Bowl - Super Bowl XXVII
Georgia Dome - Super Bowl XXVIII
Joe Robbie Stadium - Super Bowl XXIX
Sun Devil Stadium - Super Bowl XXX
Superdome - Super Bowl XXXI
Qualcomm Stadium - Super Bowl XXXII
Pro Player Stadium - Super Bowl XXXIII
Georgia Dome - Super Bowl XXXIV
Raymond James Stadium - Super Bowl XXXV
Superdome - Super Bowl XXXVI

Qualcomm Stadium - Super Bowl XXXVII

Every stadium from XXXVIII through LI (14 games) is currently in use.
 

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