News NGA changes for 2019?

[Scodog10]

It negatively impacts because it also includes multicultural kids that clubs like Adelaide have already been developing.
I dont agree with your Carlton example, every afl club will look after elite talent.

And? If it increases the talent pool it’s a win for everyone.

You’re 14 and just signed a deal with Adelaide after supporting them for ten years, you’ve then bonded with fellow academy players, the playing group and the staff over the next 4 years. You’re then effectively taken out of that environment to move interstate at 18 to a perennial bottom club and you think the club recruiting them stands a chance of keeping them? If I were in list management there’s no way I’d invest a top 10 pick in that kid and your club knows this. The flight risk is high enough as it is, but you’re playing with fire in that scenario. After pick 10 you’ll have access to most of them with your 1st pick anyway! This is before we even move towards your clubs burying players (by the by all clubs do it).

To my knowledge, outside of regional areas, WA and SA are the only populations without academies so you know what I’m doing if I’m soccer. I’m starting two of them in those areas and targeting indigenous youngsters from the age of 8. Imagine the Socceroos with Steven and Brad Hill in central midfield feeding it to Buddy up front? The 4 clubs have wanted access to the whole state since the zones were created and they’ve found an in.

I guess the irony is that we both want the same thing, but for entirely different reasons!

 

[Taylor]

The Victorian clubs would support it because they all know where it's heading...

All academy picks inside the first round aren't guaranteed or discounted.

 

[Snake_Baker]

The Victorian clubs would support it because they all know where it's heading...

All academy picks inside the first round aren't guaranteed or discounted.

The self interest of clubs will ensure that the current academy process collapses.

It might take another 10-15 years, but I am very bullish about this.

 

[Pykie]

The Victorian clubs would support it because they all know where it's heading...

All academy picks inside the first round aren't guaranteed or discounted.

It needs to happen.

The rort of the Northern academies has gone on too long.

All academy kids considered top 30 should be available to everyone.

It will still involve rorting, teams hiding players etc, but it will be more even than it currently is.

 

[Taylor]

The primary gaming of the system would be the mutual agreement of all clubs not to bid on players in the first round.

If you're upset with the value paid in the first round then that could be adjusted.

Indigenous zone drafting Australia wide would either compromise the draft more or even up the compromised system ha

 

[Suma Magic]

How many kids get drafted in an average year? 120 across both drafts?

This proposal would mean that clubs could only match bids for picks 30-70 in the ND. Before that they couldn’t and after that other clubs didn’t really want them that much anyway.

So in the majority of cases clubs wouldn’t have discounted priority access to these players.

 

[Cleric]

How many kids get drafted in an average year? 120 across both drafts?

This proposal would mean that clubs could only match bids for picks 30-70 in the ND. Before that they couldn’t and after that other clubs didn’t really want them that much anyway.

So in the majority of cases clubs wouldn’t have discounted priority access to these players.

The AFL have botched this academy issue so badly it isnt funny.

 

[Suma Magic]

The AFL have botched this academy issue so badly it isnt funny.

I’ve been firmly opposed to the large discounts and distorted points system since day 1.

I don’t mind academies so long as there is no draft advantage.

 

[Taylor]

How many kids get drafted in an average year? 120 across both drafts?

This proposal would mean that clubs could only match bids for picks 30-70 in the ND. Before that they couldn’t and after that other clubs didn’t really want them that much anyway.

So in the majority of cases clubs wouldn’t have discounted priority access to these players.

It's a minimum of 54 picks across all drafts.

The panic comes from the thought of Lance Franklin 2.0 coming through.

 

[Suma Magic]

It's a minimum of 54 picks across all drafts.

The panic comes from the thought of Lance Franklin 2.0 coming through.

How is the minimum relevant?

 

[Taylor]

Is the priority access enough of an incentive for clubs to funnel resources predraft?

I think so. Points are entirely fabricated rubbish to give the appearance of value but what else can we do? Nobody is going to actually trade a bunch of 2nds for pick #1, ever - but at least without a discount there isn't even less cost.

 

[Taylor]

How is the minimum relevant?

Only in that there could be a year where all clubs are winking and nodding at each other, we have a first round, a second round and then an academy round.

If we are going to have Indigenous Zone Recruiting, why not just call it that and scrap it from the draft?

 

[brad cooper]

It needs to happen.

The rort of the Northern academies has gone on too long.

All academy kids considered top 30 should be available to everyone.

It will still involve rorting, teams hiding players etc, but it will be more even than it currently is.

Its gonna even up pretty quickly with this nga academy system. My son is part of the freo academy simply because his mum was born overseas. He was born in Australia, spent his whole life here and has played afl since auskick. He is deemed multicultural for purposes of nga.

If having one parent born overseas qualifies you for the relevant teams academy, then the players such as dusty and nic nat would have been academy players.

I fail to see how players such as these would have needed an Academy to give them a pathway into football, but its now happening.

 

[Peel67skin]

Having Indigenous Zone sound a bit discriminate that indigenous people are different .

 

[Suma Magic]

Only in that there could be a year where all clubs are winking and nodding at each other, we have a first round, a second round and then an academy round.

If we are going to have Indigenous Zone Recruiting, why not just call it that and scrap it from the draft?

I don’t see how that’s likely given the variation in the number and quality of academy players by club each year. Clubs who aren’t producing talent (likely through no fault of their own) aren’t going to just let other clubs gain an even larger advantage.

Zones aren’t politically feasible. The afl is really trying to dig itself out of a hole that it created in order to give the northern clubs a leg up (and to grow the game).

I think the following would make academies (and f/s) palatable:
- sort out the points system so that later picks are worth less
- remove discounts completely
- limit priority access to top end talent in some way.

If clubs had to pay what players were worth, genuinely what they were worth, then the whole system would have much better long-term support. Some incentive would be removed for development, but that’s a tiny price to pay for a system with continuity.

 

[Taylor]

Its gonna even up pretty quickly with this nga academy system. My son is part of the freo academy simply because his mum was born overseas. He was born in Australia, spent his whole life here and has played afl since auskick. He is deemed multicultural for purposes of nga.

If having one parent born overseas qualifies you for the relevant teams academy, then the players such as dusty and nic nat would have been academy players.

I fail to see how players such as these would have needed an Academy to give them a pathway into football, but its now happening.

Dustin Martin wouldn't, they rule the multicultural ones as being from generally non-commonwealth/non-white nations. NZ isn't on the list.

 

[Peel67skin]

Dustin Martin wouldn't, they rule the multicultural ones as being from generally non-commonwealth/non-white nations. NZ isn't on the list.

What happen if Dusty ah Chee abdul or Martin chan from NZ are they eligible ?

 

[Taylor]

I don’t see how that’s likely given the variation in the number and quality of academy players by club each year. Clubs who aren’t producing talent (likely through no fault of their own) aren’t going to just let other clubs gain an even larger advantage.

Zones aren’t politically feasible. The afl is really trying to dig itself out of a hole that it created in order to give the northern clubs a leg up (and to grow the game).

I think the following would make academies (and f/s) palatable:
- sort out the points system so that later picks are worth less
- remove discounts completely
- limit priority access to top end talent in some way.

If clubs had to pay what players were worth, genuinely what they were worth, then the whole system would have much better long-term support. Some incentive would be removed for development, but that’s a tiny price to pay for a system with continuity.

I think we are basing a system on the rare occurrence of Lance Franklin 2.0 coming through when primarily the players coming through aren't at his level anyway.

Thomas this year for North is really good, but he will probably be the only really good player to come out of the Tasmanian academy.

Not to divert the discussion but if it's a matter of every club wanting a gun because one club has, demanding an equality of opportunity, when do they start talking about the less than equal father son opportunities?

 

[brad cooper]

Dustin Martin wouldn't, they rule the multicultural ones as being from generally non-commonwealth/non-white nations. NZ isn't on the list.

My wife is from uk and Caucasian

 

[Suma Magic]

I think we are basing a system on the rare occurrence of Lance Franklin 2.0 coming through when primarily the players coming through aren't at his level anyway.

Thomas this year for North is really good, but he will probably be the only really good player to come out of the Tasmanian academy.

Not to divert the discussion but if it's a matter of every club wanting a gun because one club has, demanding an equality of opportunity, when do they start talking about the less than equal father son opportunities?

I think that designing a policy that would deliver a hugely improved level of fairness would be fairly easy. It would never be perfect, but policy never is.

 

[Taylor]

I think that designing a policy that would deliver a hugely improved level of fairness would be fairly easy. It would never be perfect, but policy never is.

It wasn't about fairness, it was about giving the Sydney and QLD teams a significant advantage. We only have the rest because other clubs asked what about them.

 

[Suma Magic]

It wasn't about fairness, it was about giving the Sydney and QLD teams a significant advantage. We only have the rest because other clubs asked what about them.

Exactly. The impediments to fairness are political.

The AFL have been “digging up” for a few years on this one.

 

[briztoon]

Oh please.
Total population of Aboriginals in SA = 34,000
Total population of Aboriginals in WA = 76,000
Total population of Aboriginals in Qld = 186,000
Total population of Aboriginals in NSW = 216,000

Not only do you have more Aboriginals than either SA or WA, but vastly more total population as well.
Cry me a river.

Except in NSW & QLD the vast majority of Aboriginals play or support rugby league, not AFL, you know like the vast majority of the NSW & QLD general populations.

That's the bit that you guys seem to struggle with. It's fine saying the QLD and NSW academies have whole States to draw talent from, but the reality is that we don't, because the vast majority of those kids and their families don't even give AFL a look in.

When you look at the kids that have graduated to the AFL ranks at the two QLD clubs, only three kids have come from families that weren't originally from AFL states and moved to QLD when their kids were young, and one of those kids is already out of the system. Sh!t, at the Lions one of our academy kids grandfather played with one of our recent Victorian draftees grandfather at Geelong, and their families used to visit each other, before one family moved up to QLD for better job opportunities.

 

[Taylor]

Except in NSW & QLD the vast majority of Aboriginals play or support rugby league, not AFL, you know like the vast majority of the NSW & QLD general populations.

That's the bit that you guys seem to struggle with. It's fine saying the QLD and NSW academies have whole States to draw talent from, but the reality is that we don't, because the vast majority of those kids and their families don't even give AFL a look in.

When you look at the kids that have graduated to the AFL ranks at the two QLD clubs, only three kids have come from families that weren't originally from AFL states and moved to QLD when their kids were young, and one of those kids is already out of the system. Sh!t, at the Lions one of our academy kids grandfather played with one of our recent Victorian draftees grandfather at Geelong, and their families used to visit each other, before one family moved up to QLD for better job opportunities.

It's arguable that all of the players coming through the academy system so far aren't the intended targets of the system long term anyway. Those players aren't even in high school yet.

 

[briztoon]

But why take away the incentive to develop them? If they’re going to be top 25 players the club deserves priority access same as the northern clubs and Vic clubs.

Basically the theory of the OP seems to be “this negatively impacts on my club in the short term so they can GAGF” it’s just so myopic.

The whole point of the NGA’s is to increase the talent pool and you have indigenous elders telling you the current system isn’t working. I don’t get why anyone would be opposed to it from the 4 clubs it impacts?

A scenario for you. Kid x spends 4 years in the Adelaide system as an NGA then gets drafted by Carlton do you really think he’ll last in their system? He’ll be back at the Crows after his first contract. Don’t be fooled there’s a reason your clubs are keen and I’m tipping they’re armed with a lot more info than us...

Because we've already seen the NGA concept bastardised by the Victorian clubs already (looking at you Collingwood, North Melbourne and Western Bulldogs especially) and gaming the system by adding NGA "recruits" to their club who have been playing AFL since they were little kids.

Yes NGA academies are supposed to offer opportunities to kids that wouldn't already have them, or draw kids in that wouldn't already be playing AFL. Just by being born or raised in Victoria, SA, or WA, kids are exposed to AFL as the number one football code. If they are good enough, they make it through the system such as Tarryn Thomas, or Isaac Quaynor, or Bhuku Khamis. Or Isaac Rankine, because Isaac Rankine would automatically fall in to one of the SA clubs NGA academy if they were allowed to pick city based Aboriginal kids, so to Ian Hill in WA.

That's the concern. Not that the SA or WA clubs will increase the player pool, but rather have priority access to the top end talent that would make it regardless if the NGA system existed or not.

Just like the Vic clubs are doing now, by cherry picking the top end talent the existed already, and drawing them in to their academies, because the kids meet the criteria. Hell, there is one kid in one Vic academy whose mother is white South African, emigrated to Australia when she was 3, (note that is mother who emigrated to Australia when she was 3, not the son who will be drafted this year) and as such, the kid meets the NGA criteria of having one parent born on the continent of Africa.

Rigging the system much....