-
Mobile App Discontinued
Due to a number of factors, support for the current BigFooty mobile app has been discontinued. Your BigFooty login will no longer work on the Tapatalk or the BigFooty App - which is based on Tapatalk.
Apologies for any inconvenience. We will try to find a replacement.
Mega Thread Nick Daicos - Can he be the GTWEB? Part 2
- Thread starter Fadge
- Start date
- Tagged users None
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
- Oct 25, 2001
- 17,761
- 15,850
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- IOM Gyms, Preston Nth End
I will include any match you think is fair. You demanded I add the 2022 SF so I assume you would want the others in there too.You are doing a poor job arguing that
Must be lost in your nuance.
In any case, 2 votes per final is a great start to his career.
No I just questioned the accuracy of your calculation, noting an omission despite your proclamation that you had already added the necessary detail and nuance.
Then you got all pissy that someone bothered to apply some quality control.
And your feline battler mate then created his own "average" that again was wrong.
Some people should just stick to the basics, leave the calculation of averages and probabilities to experts...like Fadge
Log in to remove this Banner Ad
- Thread starter
- #4,830
And do I have some simply magnificent data to share come the end of the season, in support of how well the great young man is tracking toward GOAT status.Some people should just stick to the basics, leave the calculation of averages and probabilities to experts...like Fadge
Hang on to your hats, it will blow your mind!
I have you to help me if I forget a piece of data. You are a useful assistant. I'm just frustrated as I was praising Daicos and your help actually brought his average down. Haters gonna hate. 2 votes per final (pre-GF weighting adjustment) is still great, almost 50% as much as JDG and Crisp in the same period.No I just questioned the accuracy of your calculation, noting an omission despite your proclamation that you had already added the necessary detail and nuance.
Then you got all pissy that someone bothered to apply some quality control.
And your feline battler mate then created his own "average" that again was wrong.
Some people should just stick to the basics, leave the calculation of averages and probabilities to experts...like Fadge
I never included the 2023 QF though. My mistake was omitting the 2022 SF where he received no votes, so my mistake could only be viewed as potentially trying to pump Daicos' vote average higher. Naughty I know. I'm glad I was caught for honesty's sake.
- Thread starter
- #4,833
Can you please use your obsession to compare Gary Ayres votes for players in their first 4 seasons of football, particularly when 84% of the games referenced are from their first two seasons?
Thanks.
So now we can only include the parts of his historically strong start that add to his case? But for finals football we have to wait until he's 25 years old? He's played in big games from the start and already has 6 finals to his name. That will be 7 or 8 soon and we can start comparing that to other players early finals then. The issue being that many of the stronger performers were in the pre Ayres Votes era 2015 or earlier.
N.Watson > Rowell > N.Daicos (J.Daicos and P.Daicos too)
You're just pissy as you clearly.dont like someone helping address a lack of detail in your posting.
You do realise you can calculate an avg that ignores his 2022 matches?
But that isn't really what you are arguing,.despite your "claim", the nuance is important with disengenuos posters like yourself.
- Thread starter
- #4,837
LOLOL.
We need more than a catalogue of 6 finals to be able to compare Daicos' record with that of other players who regularly played in finals in the early part of their careers, but you're happy to anoint 'Rolling Finals MVP's' based on a catalogue of 3 finals games over a four year period (and most of those games being minor finals)?
Astounding.
And to shed some light on the subject matter, Daicos' first 3 finals in his rookie year saw him average 24.3 possessions, and he was named in his team's best players in 2 of those games. I wonder how that compares with other players who were lucky enough to play in multiple finals in their rookie season? Any nominations for players who have a better record than this? Because I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Here are some examples:
Joel Selwood - 2007 - 3 finals, average 18 possessions.
Max Holmes - 2021 - 2 finals, average 10 possessions.
Thanks Meow, it seems you've helped us stumble on yet another data point in support of Daicos being the GOAT!
Last edited:
2007 possession average comparison is hilarious. Selwood was mostly a wingman in 2007 in a lower possession era. Even Ablett as an on baller averaged less than 27 disposals that season compared to Bailey Smith around 31 per game in 2025. Next you'll be comparing Matt Rowell disposal numbers with Voss in 2001.
I have no issue acknowledging that Holmes was a slowish starter in terms of modern day debut seasons. 2022 he was great but not if you just looked at disposal numbers. Champion Data had him ranked as the best wingman in the game over the second half of 2022 and his season ended with match winning goal vs Collingwood in the QF, then equal BOG in the prelim before doing a hammy. Those finals when on the field (averaged) were better than Daicos' 2022 ones, but you're right that in his debut season he didn't reach any great heights. His finals coaches votes average is still about the same as Daicos even including that season AND the two finals he was BOG in before doing hammies. And he was a wingman for 4 of the 7 games. There are outliers but generally midfielders receive more votes than wingmen.
- Thread starter
- #4,839
Oh.
So you want to include Holmes' second season, where he still wasn't as good as Daicos was in his first season, to compare against Daicos' first season?
Cute.
You didn't answer my question - does Daicos have any challengers in relation to level of performance in finals in their rookie season?
Because I still haven't been able to think of anyone.
Do we again need to go back to the likes of Dick Reynolds or Haydn Bunton?
My original post didn't mention Holmes at all. I looked at Daicos' strong first 6 finals in isolation, praised him for them and calculated his running Ayres vote average (but stuffed up by missing a game in his first season). You have had a meltdown in response and this is why people have been making fun of you lately.
As far as players in their first 6 finals that have reached greater heights than Daicos there has been a few. He has been elite since day one (watch how you try and twist this compliment and somehow take offence at it) so there is no real need to qualify with age.
Holmes 2nd season stacks up with Daicos' 1st as he was rated the best in his position for the second half of the season and then was influential in 2 finals, including being BOG in the prelim before injury. Like I said, his first year he wasn't up to speed and I have never pretended he was a strong contributor until 2022.
- Thread starter
- #4,841
Huh?
Of course there is a need to qualify with age.
You honestly think it is reasonable to compare one player, who played his first 3 finals as a 19 year old, with a player who had to wait his time, and didn't play his first three finals until he was a 23 year old, in the 5th year of his career (for example)?
Daicos was a few months shy of his 20th birthday during the 2022 finals series. Holmes had just turned 20. Holmes had 28 AFL games experience. Daicos had 22. I don't think it's unreasonable for there to be a comparison year-on-year for things like finals. The fact remains that Holmes has been BOG or tracking for BOG in 3 finals (2022 PF, 2024 QF, 2024 PF) so far, compared to 0 for Daicos. There is only one final he has played where he hasn't received coaches votes or wasn't tracking to feature right near the top - Daicos had three.
Holmes finals performances - when his hammy isn't popping mid-game - have been stronger than Daicos' on average over the past 4 seasons. Much like Newcombe, Serong and a few others (Crisp, JDG, Dangerfield, Neale etc) over the same time period. He's still young, sure. The next step is having some BOG performances in finals.
- Thread starter
- #4,843
Still waiting on nominations for players who go near Daicos' finals performances in his rookie season.
24.3 possession average, and named in his team's best players in the Semi Final and Preliminary Final.
Anyone?
24.3 possession average, and named in his team's best players in the Semi Final and Preliminary Final.
Anyone?
Joel Selwood.
Wingman/midfielder hybrid role: averaging 18 disposals, 4 clearances, 8 contested possessions, 5.3 inside 50s and 2.3 goal assists in the 2007 finals series.
Didn't just go near it, but bettered Daicos. I remember Nick's blistering first term against Geelong in the 2022 QF - 11 disposals I believe - but the 14 he had for the rest of the game were pretty low impact. Besides raw disposal count - something any loose halfback excels in - there was nothing especially high impact about Daicos' 2022 finals series.
🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.
- Thread starter
- #4,847
So you reference Daicos' lesser of his 3 games? (Even though it included a 'blistering' 11 possession quarter)
What about the other 2, where he was amongst his team's best players.
As a 19 year old.
I'm taking Selwood's stat line as a wingman/midfielder over Daicos as a halfback any time and I'm willing to bet I've watched the full collection of 6 matches we're talking about a lot more recently than you, as I doubt the Geelong 2007 finals series is something you revisit. So I'm also going to trust my judgement recollection-wise as opposed to you trying to guess about Selwood's impact in those 2007 finals.
But yes, as you said "no one has gone near those rookie season finals performances". Laughable.
- Thread starter
- #4,850
I think you're being far too harsh on Holmes here.
He had a fine first year of his career - played 12 games and was picked in two of Geelong's finals.
It just looks like a 'slow start' when you compare it to the kid who jumped out of the blocks better and quicker than any other kid has in the modern era...
