Mega Thread Nick Daicos - Can he be the GTWEB? Part 2

[sr36]

So Nick Daicos was 35% better than the next best player on the ground, and that player was Ty Gallop!

Ty Gallop was very good, but methinks there might be an issue with their rating system.

 

[Cdog71]

How high a bar has a player set when they pump out a 26 point something PlAyEr RaTiNg and observers find 10 players to name as having been 'better'?

Wowee.

What was Cox’s player rating?
Just outve curiosity

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Ty Gallop was very good, but methinks there might be an issue with their rating system.

Does anyone other than David King take any notice of player ratings?

 

[Cdog71]

The ratings don't lie, according to a few of our Tiger pals, who also assert finals as the ultimate test

This puts Daics in GOAT territory

That’s not bad
Maybe an emoji next time.

Let’s see how you go

 

[Corn Cobbers]

So it looks like we can all agree that Daics enhanced his reputation this season with a good H & A and a strong finals' series, can he finally notch up that first Brownlow?

 

[doppleganger]

Yep, this is a fair call.

The thing is, we hear all about PlAyEr RaTiNgZ when it suits THEIR narrative, and there's dead silence when it doesn't.

For Naicos they ALL suit the narrative

All Australian's - 3 already
MVP - a win and runner-up already
Coaches - a win and two other top5 finishes already
Brownlow - already two top 3 finishes (perhaps a win tomorrow)
Club BnF - dominant in years when the team are finishing top4 and winning flags
Pure stats - right up there for everything, disposals, clearances, score involvements etc.
Algorithms (rankings for season) - has gone 3 consecutive 15+ PlaYA RaTinGz and 115 SuperCoach season avg
Algorithms (individual games) - dropped a 37.2 the highest rated game ever by a Collingwood player, and the 14th best game in CD rating system of all time.
Finals - in our best in wins and losses, and produced best GF memory for many a Pie fan with the double act before DeGoey goal.

 

[Cdog71]

I think Collingwood did well to make a prelim
3 outve the last 9 games isn’t great form.

For Naicos they ALL suit the narrative

All Australian's - 3 already
MVP - a win and runner-up already
Coaches - a win and two other top5 finishes already
Brownlow - already two top 3 finishes (perhaps a win tomorrow)
Club BnF - dominant in years when the team are finishing top4 and winning flags
Pure stats - right up there for everything, disposals, clearances, score involvements etc.
Algorithms (rankings for season) - has gone 3 consecutive 15+ PlaYA RaTinGz and 115 SuperCoach season avg
Algorithms (individual games) - dropped a 37.2 the highest rated game ever by a Collingwood player, and the 14th best game in CD rating system of all time.
Finals - in our best in wins and losses, and produced best GF memory for many a Pie fan with the double act before DeGoey goal.

It almost looks targeted.
Honestly, I think it’s me.
I’m just an old football lover who likes to see players who can impact, can change momentum and win their own ball.

But for mine
The answer to the OP is
No

 

[doppleganger]

So it looks like we can all agree that Daics enhanced his reputation this season with a good H & A and a strong finals' series, can he finally notch up that first Brownlow?

Already has H&A - players MVP, Lou Richards medal, AA, and the best individual game of the season against the toothless Tigers.

Finals - Pies best few in both games from all pundits, backed up again by being highest rated Pie in both games. Including a 26.3 rated game in a PF, that is Danger / Dusty finals goat territory.

 

[Lunchtime]

I wonder if Fadge was expecting Nick Daicos to be number 1??

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Already has H&A - players MVP, Lou Richards medal, AA, and the best individual game of the season against the toothless Tigers.

Finals - Pies best few in both games from all pundits, backed up again by being highest rated Pie in both games. Including a 26.3 rated game in a PF, that is Danger / Dusty finals goat territory.

The game's best player, elite and alone at the top of the heap, on his way to status

 

[Humblebob]

I think Collingwood did well to make a prelim
3 outve the last 9 games isn’t great form.

It almost looks targeted.
Honestly, I think it’s me.
I’m just an old football lover who likes to see players who can impact, can change momentum and win their own ball.

But for mine
The answer to the OP is
No

Kids 22 carrying a midfield.

Fair enough if it’s a no but pretending he’s not player who can “impact” or “change momentum” is ludicrous lol. He’s also won plenty of his own ball already and for a lightly framed young bloke that’s an area he’s certain to improve in.

He’ll never be the size of bont but neither was Gaz jnr, that’s the beauty of our game, champions come in all shapes and sizes.

He’ll have another pre season under his belt next year, hopefully he spends a little more time in the gym.
Luckily you can build strength and power through hard work.

 

[doppleganger]

I’m just an old football lover who likes to see players who can impact, can change momentum and win their own ball.

You would love him if a Tiger

1st possession, clearance beast when played in the inside role
Cuts teams up on the outside, highest team score involvement % of all players in 2025
And even just after four years in the game, has already produced so many amazing Q4 plays to get the Pies wins.

People do realise that other modern day GOAT players - GAJnr, GASnr, Carey, Danger, Buddy - were all involved in many finals losses along their journey.

Tis laughable how the haters think every time the Pies lose it is worth bumping this thread, ignoring that Naicos played well himself anyway.

 

[Fabab]

Is he part of the umpiring team next week or not?

 

[Cdog71]

You would love him if a Tiger

1st possession, clearance beast when played in the inside role
Cuts teams up on the outside, highest team score involvement % of all players in 2025
And even just after four years in the game, has already produced so many amazing Q4 plays to get the Pies wins.

People do realise that other modern day GOAT players - GAJnr, GASnr, Carey, Danger, Buddy - were all involved in many finals losses along their journey.

Tis laughable how the haters think every time the Pies lose it is worth bumping this thread, ignoring that Naicos played well himself anyway.

I think he’s a wonderful player and I think he plays differently.
I also like how you said other Modern day GOAT players and a little after you said laughable.
It’s almost like code
I dont see him as a first possesion in and under player, I dont see him as a goal scoring midfielder.
But I do think he plays exactly the same way as he did when he was the Oakliegh Chargers.
His just improved on it.

Unfortunately you lost one midfielder before the game

 

[doppleganger]

I dont see him as a first possesion in and under player, I dont see him as a goal scoring midfielder.

It is funny how some people view players.

In 2024 when played as main centre bounce player, Naicos was top5 for 1st possession, contested possession, gather from HO, centre clearance and total clearance averages....it was only Crippa who was top5 in all those categories with Naicos.

And of the other top 20 1st possession players, Naicos was the only to kick 20+ goals, have 2+ shots at goal per game and be involved in more than 30% of his teams score involvements.

Unfortunately you lost one midfielder before the game

Yeah finals are a team game, having a 26.3 player rating and being the best on the losing side is a great personal achievement but he won't care as the team lost.

 

[Cdog71]

It is funny how some people view players.

In 2024 when played as main centre bounce player, Naicos was top5 for 1st possession, contested possession, gather from HO, centre clearance and total clearance averages....it was only Crippa who was top5 in all those categories with Naicos.

And of the other top 20 1st possession players, Naicos was the only to kick 20+ goals, have 2+ shots at goal per game and be involved in more than 30% of his teams score involvements.

Yeah finals are a team game, having a 26.3 player rating and being the best on the losing side is a great personal achievement but he won't care as the team lost.

You’ve picked the one circumstance where he has the least amount of congestion, the most amount of opportunity.

And by the way scoring from centre bounce in 24 was a little thin.

How Eagles dare at centre bounces is a double-edged sword

Cody Atkinson and Sean Lawson examine the most basic stoppage in the game and how West Coast's approach is boosting their score but also leaving headaches for the cellar-dwellers.

www.abc.net.au

I do wonder now though what McRae’s view of the centre bounce is and “inside mids”. I suspect he doesn’t value them

 

[sr36]

I think he’s a wonderful player and I think he plays differently.
I also like how you said other Modern day GOAT players and a little after you said laughable.
It’s almost like code
I dont see him as a first possesion in and under player, I dont see him as a goal scoring midfielder.
But I do think he plays exactly the same way as he did when he was the Oakliegh Chargers.
His just improved on it.

Unfortunately you lost one midfielder before the game

He gets a lot of first possessions and clearances. 3rd in the league last year and top 10 this year for clearances. In and under is a bit of a furphy these days as they all keep their feet. They all do it a bit differently - Cripps bulldozes through. Serong and Nick are on to it in a flash and handle balls at speed that others would fumble. Rowell's the best at the moment as he's onto it in a flash handles it beautifully and can also bulldoze his way through.

 

[sr36]

You’ve picked the one circumstance where he has the least amount of congestion, the most amount of opportunity.

And by the way scoring from centre bounce in 24 was a little thin.

How Eagles dare at centre bounces is a double-edged sword

Cody Atkinson and Sean Lawson examine the most basic stoppage in the game and how West Coast's approach is boosting their score but also leaving headaches for the cellar-dwellers.

www.abc.net.au

I do wonder now though what McRae’s view of the centre bounce is and “inside mids”. I suspect he doesn’t value them

He recruited Mitchell as we were lacking a hitout target in 2022. But I don't think he thinks that target has to be a huge brute and considering Nick, Serong and Neale are 3 of the biggest first possession and clearance winners - they clearly don't have to be huge or particularly aggressive.

We usually play the same set up that Richmond had, which is more about getting the best clearances rather than the most clearances. Pendles sweeping the back of the pack to stop the opposition bursting out the front. Somone with burst speed at the front of the pack and the hitout target on the side of the pack. Nick often plays side of the pack where you get the most opportunity for first possession, but when he is getting a defensive stoppage tag, he often shifts to the front of the pack so he can get on the move and drag the tagger away to open up the front of the pack for cleaner breaks when we do get it or break forward for a forward handball that makes our clearance deadly when a teammate gets it.

 

[Mr Meow]

He recruited Mitchell as we were lacking a hitout target in 2022. But I don't think he thinks that target has to be a huge brute and considering Nick, Serong and Neale are 3 of the biggest first possession and clearance winners - they clearly don't have to be huge or particularly aggressive.

We usually play the same set up that Richmond had, which is more about getting the best clearances rather than the most clearances. Pendles sweeping the back of the pack to stop the opposition bursting out the front. Somone with burst speed at the front of the pack and the hitout target on the side of the pack. Nick often plays side of the pack where you get the most opportunity for first possession, but when he is getting a defensive stoppage tag, he often shifts to the front of the pack so he can get on the move and drag the tagger away to open up the front of the pack for cleaner breaks when we do get it or break forward for a forward handball that makes our clearance deadly when a teammate gets it.

Either way, it's a midfield that could only hang with the best 1 of the previous 4 seasons: the season after Mitchell was recruited and DeGoey's fitness was probably at it's best. With Mitchell cooked it really isn't up to speed in terms of the elite sides of the comp. If JDG isn't dominating, that's effectively game over as far as midfield competitiveness.

Moving Daicos completely inside for 1st possession in 2024 was great for his stats, but he just isn't an incredibly high impact player in congestion yet. Moving him to a more balanced role veering towards outside midfielder has been better, but then you lack the beasts winning contests to feed it to him.

He's a luxury player at times rather than the engine that gets things going. And he really faded out of a lot of close games this year. Almost like he used all of his petrol tickets early. Still a very good season and the accolades are rolling in. But not a difference maker when it counted.

 

[sr36]

Does anyone other than David King take any notice of player ratings?

Is Player Ratings the Hoyne Champion Data stuff? If so most of the SEN guys seem to love it. I can't work out whether Hoyne is just a good salesman or whether there's a commercial relationship where SEN benefits from plugging Champion Data's data. I think it's now impacting the All Australian team.

 

[Mr Meow]

Is Player Ratings the Hoyne Champion Data stuff? If so most of the SEN guys seem to love it. I can't work out whether Hoyne is just a good salesman or whether there's a commercial relationship where SEN benefits from plugging Champion Data's data. I think it's now impacting the All Australian team.

Different ratings system, but similar idea.

The CD stuff is much better for dissecting matches rather than performances, although it'll give ball use effectiveness read outs to some degree.

For individual player performances from a given game, it's grain of salt stuff unless dooziesplooger needs to use it after a big score for Nick.

 

[Lunchtime]

Different ratings system, but similar idea.

The CD stuff is much better for dissecting matches rather than performances, although it'll give ball use effectiveness read outs to some degree.

For individual player performances from a given game, it's grain of salt stuff unless dooziesplooger needs to use it after a big score for Nick.

I always thought Hoyne was part of champion data? Also there is a website called Wheelo Ratings...I thought Wheelo Ratings got their info from Champion data. Have you heard of Wheelo Ratings website/seen it??

Does Hoyne do his own ratings?

Now I am really confused.

Also I think Champion Data is the official data source for the AFL.

 

[Mr Meow]

I always thought Hoyne was part of champion data? Also there is a website called Wheelo Ratings...I thought Wheelo Ratings got their info from Champion data. Have you heard of Wheelo Ratings website/seen it??

Does Hoyne do his own ratings?

Now I am really confused.

Also I think Champion Data is the official data source for the AFL.

I'm not exactly sure, but I know Hoyne's player rankings differ from Wheelo even though the source data would all be collected by CD. What you do with said data can vary but there is usually a broad agreement. For example Daicos being rated much higher in the 2nd half of the season due to improved ball use.

 

[sr36]

Either way, it's a midfield that could only hang with the best 1 of the previous 4 seasons: the season after Mitchell was recruited and DeGoey's fitness was probably at it's best. With Mitchell cooked it really isn't up to speed in terms of the elite sides of the comp. If JDG isn't dominating, that's effectively game over as far as midfield competitiveness.

Moving Daicos completely inside for 1st possession in 2024 was great for his stats, but he just isn't an incredibly high impact player in congestion yet. Moving him to a more balanced role veering towards outside midfielder has been better, but then you lack the beasts winning contests to feed it to him.

He's a luxury player at times rather than the engine that gets things going. And he really faded out of a lot of close games this year. Almost like he used all of his petrol tickets early. Still a very good season and the accolades are rolling in. But not a difference maker when it counted.

He was a one man band in there, except for some McCreery cameos and some hacks forward from Crisp. Pendles was out. Sidey replaced him and was off kilter. Long is really inconsistent and having one of his bad games and Jordy got a big hit from Rayner was down on his haunches for ages and then dead wood for the rest of the game. Nick pushed ahead of the ball in the last quarter as we needed to score but no one else could win it and get it forward of the pack in his direction. Some people don't seem to realise it's a team game with roles that vary for the game situation. Do you expect him to not play his role in the comeback plan and not get ahead of the ball? To go off script and play a first possession role instead? When it works and we get it forward of the pack in his direction, he's regularly cut teams to shreds and been really instrumental in the comeback wins that we were praised for. Didn't work yesterday. Teams are on to it - everyone plays that comeback mode now. And the good teams when leading don't completely try to lock down the score anymore - Brisbane's last 10 minutes was a masterclass in hurting us in the opposite direction and finishing the game then and there rather than just trying to hold on defensively.

 

[sr36]

I always thought Hoyne was part of champion data? Also there is a website called Wheelo Ratings...I thought Wheelo Ratings got their info from Champion data. Have you heard of Wheelo Ratings website/seen it??

Does Hoyne do his own ratings?

Now I am really confused.

Also I think Champion Data is the official data source for the AFL.

Champion Data collect all the official stats for the AFL. On top of this, Champion Data also sell their analysis of the stats - in terms of both team and individual players. Hoyne works for Champion Data and is reeling off their analysis of the stats. SEN love Hoyney and their analysis.

It sounds like this Player Ratings stuff is a different mob's analysis of the official stats. I think that must be the stuff published on Wheelio.