Mega Thread Nick Daicos - Can he be the GTWEB? Part 2

[jonnobackpocket]

Nope. Not according to PlAyEr RaTiNgZ

McGluggage was outside the top 5 players on the ground, his game only a touch better than half as good as Daicos'

Deal with it...

Why do you have to be such a goose about it? He shit the bed last night, had no influence and could stick a tackle on beasts like Wilmot, squib has never played a final like McLuggage did last night. Deal with it.

 

[doppleganger]

He was ok McCluggage and Andrews were the stand outs.

I agree.

Leaving the game it was frustrating that we kept kicking long to Andrews, that Brisbane had found another impressive forward in Gallop and our mids - DeGoey, Long, Sidey and Lipinski - were well beaten by the Lions mids.

Elliott and the Daicos boys the only Pies who really had strong games...and didn't realise just how impactful Naicos was, just needed a few mates to help him.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

7 touches>2 goals according to Collingwood fans apparently

Now take away the cheapies, kick ins, running past for handballs. There is no comparison.

 

[dmark]

Naicos finals were 3 in a debut season, and 2 rushed back from a knee injury. The disengenuos Cat will argue that there is no point including debut season games.

A 26.3 player rating to be the clear dominant player on the ground in a PF after being his team highest rated player in the QF win. He has elevated his game again in finals.


An avg player rating of 21.5 in finals for his 4th season of footy, a harsh judge of you think he will improve much on that.

??
He has received coaches votes in all of his finals outside of his debut season.

And now is also dominant in player Ratings.

He does it all!!

Yeah, thats his coach giving him the votes though. Not surprised

 

[Fadge]

Oh my god you are so obsessed with player ratings mate.

He's really not....

It's therefore you who has NFI.

 

[sr36]

He was not your best player.

Hard to say. No one had a particularly good game. Nick was very comfortably our best player offensively, but his missed tackles were pretty critical

 

[Mynamesinuse]

I agree.

Leaving the game it was frustrating that we kept kicking long to Andrews, that Brisbane had found another impressive forward in Gallop and our mids - DeGoey, Long, Sidey and Lipinski - were well beaten by the Lions mids.

Elliott and the Daicos boys the only Pies who really had strong games...and didn't realise just how impactful Naicos was, just needed a few mates to help him.

He wasn’t to be honest. He was good but not in the best four or five on the ground.

 

[doppleganger]

Yeah, thats his coach giving him the votes though. Not surprised

And the players voting him MVP
And the media experts awarding him Lou Richards medal
And Champion Data rating him as most impactful

Not surprised with any of that

 

[Fadge]

And the players voting him MVP
And the media experts awarding him Lou Richards medal
And Champion Data rating him as most impactful

Not surprised with any of that

And the umpires giving him an average of 1.18 Brownlow votes per game.

Seems everyone sees him as an emerging GOAT, except for a few armchair expert haters on BigFooty.

 

[doppleganger]

He wasn’t to be honest. He was good but not in the best four or five on the ground.

Everyone has their own personal biases.

The player ratings are impartial and developed by Champion Data to measure impact on the game.

Having your game in a PF rated as 26.3 by CD is something only the top few big game players have managed.

His finals resume starting to stack up too

• in 2023, he stood up in a GF with the game on the line, to get 1st possession and goal assist in the one play to get us in front, and received Norm Smith votes
• highest rated Pie in 25 QF win away from home
• highest rated player on ground in a 25 PF

And to think he is only 4 seasons into his career

 

[Cdog71]

And the players voting him MVP
And the media experts awarding him Lou Richards medal
And Champion Data rating him as most impactful

Not surprised with any of that

I think he is the most valuable player to the way your team wants to play.
The lineup McRae chose just didn’t stand up to the test of losing one midfielder before the game.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Hard to say. No one had a particularly good game. Nick was very comfortably our best player offensively, but his missed tackles were pretty critical

I have Elliot and Cameron pies best two last night with the Daicos brothers sitting behind them personally

Elliot was that X factor that ignited the pies when they needed it and Cameron just did his best against a stronger and more cohesive midfield unit

Also took some important marks in the backline

 

[doppleganger]

I think he is the most valuable player to the way your team wants to play.
The lineup McRae chose just didn’t stand up to the test of losing one midfielder before the game.

Losing Pendles was obviously a big loss, especially as no time to really prepare.

Naicos was our only midfielder who had a good game, when DeGoey, Long, Lipinski, Crisp and Sidey were all down / outplayed you ain't winning a PF. Pretty simple stuff really.

Naicos should be lauded for his 26.3 player rating in a PF, I am sure the Tiger tragics who love spamming them will talk up how it compares historically - wonder how many players have achieved a player rating higher than Naicos 26.3 in a PF??

 

[Mr Meow]

LoL

Geelong had 348 disposals in the single game you have isolated, Pies had 312 last night.

The disengenuos one at his best, nuance and detail always important.

A long range goal

You must have loved the AFLX when they have soooper goals.

GAJ played 5 finals in his first four seasons - he avg 15 disposals, 3 clearances, 7 CPs and 1.4 goals.

GAJ also played a PF against Brisbane at the G, he had 13 disposals, 1 clearances, 7 CPs and just 3 inside 50s....

You're the one who tried to pretend Ablett's finals lacked the contested, high impact style in finals until his permanent move to midfield in 2007.

He was our best player or close to it in both games and won those crucial moments. Those games he spent more time in the midfield and operated in the inside/outside way he would later. It's weird revisionism to suggest he only learnt physicality and hard ball winning later.

But yeah his 13 disposal, 2 goal game in a forward pocket in a prelim really proved nothing I said above was true.

 

[Mr Meow]

Losing Pendles was obviously a big loss, especially as no time to really prepare.

Naicos was our only midfielder who had a good game, when DeGoey, Long, Lipinski, Crisp and Sidey were all down / outplayed you ain't winning a PF. Pretty simple stuff really.

Naicos should be lauded for his 26.3 player rating in a PF, I am sure the Tiger tragics who love spamming them will talk up how it compares historically - wonder how many players have achieved a player rating higher than Naicos 26.3 in a PF??

You can't mock player ratings one week of finals (Thilthorpe BOG in the QF) and then lean on them later.

 

[sr36]

I have Elliot and Cameron pies best two last night with the Daicos brothers sitting behind them personally

Elliot was that X factor that ignited the pies when they needed it and Cameron just did his best against a stronger and more cohesive midfield unit

Also took some important marks in the backline

Fair enough. Personally, I'd have Josh a fair way below Elliott and Nick and didn't think Cameron was effective either - more to do with Brisbane being able to chip through us rather than anything else - they avoided his marking game well. He battled around stoppage but nothing really effective. Whereas Elliott obviously had some excellent moments and Nick opened the game up really well a fair few times, but we fluffed too many of them. IQ was good.

 

[T2B_]

The thing is, if Collingwood fans just say "Daicos is a top 10 player in the league" I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.

I've been saying things to this effect for a while now. I don't even mind if they say one of the best players in the league, as he is.

But carrying on like pork chops and throwing GOAT around, is just literally inviting negativity and pile ons. It's kind of rank actually, instead of letting the kid do his thing and winning admiration naturally.

 

[Cdog71]

Losing Pendles was obviously a big loss, especially as no time to really prepare.

Naicos was our only midfielder who had a good game, when DeGoey, Long, Lipinski, Crisp and Sidey were all down / outplayed you ain't winning a PF. Pretty simple stuff really.

Naicos should be lauded for his 26.3 player rating in a PF, I am sure the Tiger tragics who love spamming them will talk up how it compares historically - wonder how many players have achieved a player rating higher than Naicos 26.3 in a PF??

It didn’t help though mate.
Zero goals, 1 GA, 4 SI
He had 3 more contested poss than Ned Long.
Who was pretty ordinary

Looks to me like Collingwood have built their system around letting Daicos run his own race and play as a receiver.
I think he’s a wonderful player, very advanced in foot skills, vision and his sprint endurance is elite.

But he’s not a first possesion winner like a Cripps or the usual types that win Brownlow’s (he may win it this year)
He’s not a goal scoring mid like a Petracca, Henry, Martin.

You guys chose Long instead of Mitchell and nobody won first possesion for you guys.

I think that was the approach.
Sidebottom tried to bloke exits long tried to tackle everything near him and stay a mtr from the ball but he’s just a kid.

The sub was chosen because you were expecting Howe to not play out the game like usual.
If Mitchell was the sub..that would’ve given you more flexibility (with hindsight).

 

[ShereKhan]

So, who are the top 5 players in the game at the moment, I assume you'll base it off both home and away and finals?

For example … Heeney is a superior player to Naicos. Why? Because I watched him drag his team over the line via a couple of finals for the ages in 2024. He has games where he has 25 and kicks 5. He can win aerial contests and is a beast at contest. Now he won’t win the H&A awards Naicos will as he’s not the ‘handball receive’ player and high possession midfielder these awards focus on … he could be but Heeney can win contests forward of the ball so he’s regularly stationed in that role. Not good for awards, but great for winning highly contested finals.

So as a H&A player Daicos is up there with Dawson, B Smith, Bont, Jezza, Anderson, Butters … the list goes on.

But in a big final I’m probably not choosing Daicos in my first 20 players. I’m picking Danger in a final before Naicos for example - it’s not even close. I’m picking McLuggage. I’m picking Heeney. Bont. And so on ….

He’s small and not very tough in the contest. He’s not good at sticking tackles. He rarely hits the scoreboard in finals.

If a player isn’t in the top echelon in the most important games, he’s not one of the very best.

He’s got time and maybe he’ll elevate in finals? Time will tell.

But he’ll end with loads of home and away awards …. but probably not many Ayres awards, Norm Smths or finals master classes. It’s still pretty good and he’ll be an all time great.

 

[sr36]

I've been saying things to this effect for a while now. I don't even mind if they say one of the best players in the league, as he is.

But carrying on like pork chops and throwing GOAT around, is just literally inviting negativity and pile ons. It's kind of rank actually, instead of letting the kid do his thing and winning admiration naturally.

Promising 22 year olds get talked up by their fans optimistically as future stars when they're not particularly close yet. It's what supporters do. Meanwhile, it's pretty much a given that if Nick Daicos's body holds up he'll be a hall of famer - so if you're going to be optimistic about how great he's good to be, where else do you go?

 

[Fadge]

You can't mock player ratings one week of finals (Thilthorpe BOG in the QF) and then lean on them later.

I think you need to read the room better...

 

[Mr Meow]

I think you need to read the room better...

Yeah, we get it, he does it as a big laugh but then calls everybody else disingenuous. It adds nothing to the discussion and is pure derailment.

Nick had a tidy enough stats sheet and a great first half. He had little impact as the 2nd half wore on and the game demanded some Pies to win crucial contests.

 

[Fadge]

For example … Heeney is a superior player to Naicos. Why? Because I watched him drag his team over the line via a couple of finals for the ages in 2024. He has games where he has 25 and kicks 5. He can win aerial contests and is a beast at contest. Now he won’t win the H&A awards Naicos will as he’s not the ‘handball receive’ player and high possession midfielder these awards focus on … he could be but Heeney can win contests forward of the ball so he’s regularly stationed in that role. Not good for awards, but great for winning highly contested finals.

This is cute.

Heeney's been in the system for 10 years, and Daicos 4.

If we rank their years based on season output, the top 4 seasons combined are:
1. Daicos 2023
2. Heeney 2024
3. Daicos 2025
4. Daicos 2024

So tell me more about Heeney being the better player?

 

[Fadge]

So as a H&A player Daicos is up there with Dawson, B Smith, Bont, Jezza, Anderson, Butters … the list goes on.

We can do the same rankings by season output for each of the above players, but I think we all know what the trend is going to look like....

 

[Fadge]

Promising 22 year olds get talked up by their fans optimistically as future stars when they're not particularly close yet. It's what supporters do. Meanwhile, it's pretty much a given that if Nick Daicos's body holds up he'll be a hall of famer - so if you're going to be optimistic about how great he's good to be, where else do you go?

No, no, no... you've been told!

We should be saying 'Gee, Daicos could even be amongst the Top 10 players in the League!', and stop there...