List Mgmt. Nick Daicos

[Saintly Viewed]

Why does % of the population matter? More kids is more kids, which means more superstars.

If you plant 15 trees in one paddock, and 10 in the other, which group would you bet to have the tallest tree out of them all?

Assuming Australia, the paddock with mountain ash trees.


(Second tallest species of tree in the world.)

 

[sr36]

Player pool referring to the total amount of people playing Australian Football, particularly at junior levels. There are much more kids playing now than in the 70s which means you're going to get more stars and better stars.

Of course they may not be statistically better than players from the 70s, because times change and now there's actual tactics in the game, but that doesn't make them worse.

Really? I would have thought the opposite, but maybe I'm just being Victorian-centric.

 

[35Daicos]

Assuming Australia, the paddock with mountain ash trees.


(Second tallest species of tree in the world.)

I'm pretty sure the same type of tree would need to be planted in both paddocks to keep this a fair exercise!!

Anything new on young Daicos, BTW?!

 

[Apex36]

Which in this example, is the paddock with 15 trees

So what you’re saying is you’ve rigged your example.

 

[Kappa]

So what you’re saying is you’ve rigged your example.

Thats exactly right, its an analogy comparing modern times to the 70s lots more kids playing footy now with better equipment better coaching ect ect. Every factor is rigged to give modern players the advantage. Which is why its ridiculous to say oldern day players are so much better than modern players

 

[4tone]

My take on John Greening. I still vividly remember his comeback game after the "incident". He took a brilliant pack mark and I'm sure everybody thought he's back, but alas it was not to be. I'll compare him to traits in current players:
>He was up there with Howe in marking ability.
>He moved through congestion at least as good as Pendlebury.
>He kicked goals on either foot better than Sidebottom.
>He had the speed to burst away from a pack like Treloar.
I know it's difficult to compare players from different eras but my take on Greening is we never saw what he could have become, but what we saw was enough to convince me he would have been one of the very best.[/QUOTE

Makes me sick that this guy never fulfilled his potential, from the brief descriptions like yours and when he's spoken about in the media, he sounds like an absolute freak of a player. Greening, Carmen, McKenna, Daicos, my uncle always said they were the best he has seen, At least I remember Daicos from as far back as 80. Absolutely loved Daicos, I remember as a kid marking a footy after he kicked a goal at the Barkly St end at the western oval around 81/82. I'm always envious when people go back further than my earliest memories of footy.

 

[left at home]

No one is saying past players are better, just some could well and truely be just as good in today’s game, John Greening is one, had all the tools of a modern player.

 

[DERKADERRR]

Just looked quickly at his stats and jeez he looked a scary player even at age 22. In one game reaching 50 disposals and another game 6 goals, that’s pretty insane. Such a shame I never got to see him play, and that his career was cut so short.

Just on another topic, one of the major benefits of the internet is that with all the games that have been broadcasted over the last while (let’s say 15 years), you can go back and view them in full because people have uploaded them. Meaning people in 20 years time will possess the ability view the skills of Pendlebury, Swan, Buckley etc. and truely understand exactly why people who saw them live hold them in such high regard.

 

[jonbe54]

Just looked quickly at his stats and jeez he looked a scary player even at age 22. In one game reaching 50 disposals and another game 6 goals, that’s pretty insane. Such a shame I never got to see him play, and that his career was cut so short.

Just on another topic, one of the major benefits of the internet is that with all the games that have been broadcasted over the last while (let’s say 15 years), you can go back and view them in full because people have uploaded them. Meaning people in 20 years time will possess the ability view the skills of Pendlebury, Swan, Buckley etc. and truely understand exactly why people who saw them live hold them in such high regard.

Very little footage remains of poor John as his career was before the saturation coverage we have today.

Here is one I found - watch out for 22 - especially his marking (at times seemingly hanging in the air) and his speed away from the contest for a big man, also his endurance was good - those run and give / receive gallops of his were barnstorming.

 

[35Daicos]

Just looked quickly at his stats and jeez he looked a scary player even at age 22. In one game reaching 50 disposals and another game 6 goals, that’s pretty insane. Such a shame I never got to see him play, and that his career was cut so short.

Just on another topic, one of the major benefits of the internet is that with all the games that have been broadcasted over the last while (let’s say 15 years), you can go back and view them in full because people have uploaded them. Meaning people in 20 years time will possess the ability view the skills of Pendlebury, Swan, Buckley etc. and truely understand exactly why people who saw them live hold them in such high regard.

Greening had a 7 goal haul as well (as an 18yo), and in the game where he had 50 disposals also took 16 marks! I presume he would have gotten the 3 Brownlow votes for that performance (he got 10 votes that year, but not until 1984 were they announced on a game-by-game basis so it's not known for sure)!

It's nothing short of tragic that so little footage has survived of football in the 60's and 70's. At least today people understand the importance of preserving such things.

 

[jonbe54]

He didn't even have to kick a bag to tear a side a couple of new ones - he was so good in any role that he was virtually impossible to match up on so either as an instigator or link man or finisher he was silk.

A silk covered sledgehammer.

 

[ClaytonM]

I hope he dominates to such a degree that he's rated the number 1 pick

Most #1 picks fall well short of initial lofty prediction. Who cares what pick he goes at, where he finishes is what matters. Rookie draft for all I care. Games, finals, GFs, Norms Smith’s. These are the measures that count. Not his draft pick.

 

[jonbe54]

Most #1 picks fall well short of initial lofty prediction. Who cares what pick he goes at, where he finishes is what matters. Rookie draft for all I care. Games, finals, GFs, Norms Smith’s. These are the measures that count. Not his draft pick.

Swannie is the prime example - captain Nick - Tony Shaw - the quality of the desire to excel is a determining factor which many pampered private school darlings never learn until they hit real competition.

 

[KillerMagpies]

Yes poor John had everything - and then some.

Opponents feared him and opposition coaches hated him.

Impossible to match up, astonishing mark good pace for his size with great evasive capabilities and a great kick.

Never messed around with the ball either, as soon as he got possession he was headed goalward - hard and fast.

.....sounds like Jaidyn Stephenson?.....


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jonbe54]

.....sounds like Jaidyn Stephenson?.....


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

ermm Greening was one of a kind - very few could mark like he could.

 

[Robroy22]

.....sounds like Jaidyn Stephenson?.....


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

He had Stepho's speed and they both have /had the willingness to take the opposition on which breaks lines and assists other team mates to find space. Other than that Stepho's about 5 years behind a 17 year old Johnny Greening!

 

[KillerMagpies]

He had Stepho's speed and they both have /had the willingness to take the opposition on which breaks lines and assists other team mates to find space. Other than that Stepho's about 5 years behind a 17 year old Johnny Greening!

Wow.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Saintly Viewed]

He had Stepho's speed and they both have /had the willingness to take the opposition on which breaks lines and assists other team mates to find space. Other than that Stepho's about 5 years behind a 17 year old Johnny Greening!

On that you’re right.

Separately what I have loved that Stephenson has brought is, the change in the forward dynamic. He’s added this element of Elan and dash and style.
We are so different with him there.

 

[Kappa]

Most #1 picks fall well short of initial lofty prediction. Who cares what pick he goes at, where he finishes is what matters. Rookie draft for all I care. Games, finals, GFs, Norms Smith’s. These are the measures that count. Not his draft pick.

The average amount of games played for top 5 picks is substantially higher than any other draft pick. Stats would say it does matter, of course there are anomalies.

Pick 1 averages 233 games while a pick in the 50's you're looking at an average of 40 games played.

 

[Kappa]

He didn't even have to kick a bag to tear a side a couple of new ones - he was so good in any role that he was virtually impossible to match up on so either as an instigator or link man or finisher he was silk.

A silk covered sledgehammer.

How many best and fairest did he win at the Pies?

 

[Robroy22]

How many 18-20 year olds win their club's B+F? How many won then in the 60's and 70's?
Let alone at a Historic Club like ours was during JG's short career? The old guard at CFC would have kept him in his place and rewarded the "established stars" (Thompson, Tuddenham, The Richardsons, Price, McKenna....) remember he was a kid when he was knobbled.
How many had Bucks won by the age of 20? How many would Greening have won if he'd played the next 250 games? Sorry to burst your bubble Kapps but you're trying to have 20:20 hindsight (using stats) against people who actually saw the KID play. Your stats and analysis of them don't stack up against the physical evidence of those who were there.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

How many 18-20 year olds win their club's B+F? How many won then in the 60's and 70's?
Let alone at a Historic Club like ours was during JG's short career? The old guard at CFC would have kept him in his place and rewarded the "established stars" (Thompson, Tuddenham, The Richardsons, Price, McKenna....) remember he was a kid when he was knobbled.
How many had Bucks won by the age of 20? How many would Greening have won if he'd played the next 250 games? Sorry to burst your bubble Kapps but you're trying to have 20:20 hindsight (using stats) against people who actually saw the KID play. Your stats and analysis of them don't stack up against the physical evidence of those who were there.

Kappa will feast on your use of Buckley. Can see his jab coming.

Nathan won his first Best And fairest in his first year with us. Won his second in his third year. Won his third in his fifth year....
And Nathan was likely denied in his first ever season with Brisbane because they knew he was leaving.

That said Buckley was an uber elite talent, a man that can sit in the company of Greening, Daicos and that level of talent.

But where any talk of Uber elite Collingwood players is discussed, John Greening sits at that table. Super star.

 

[Robroy22]

Saint, his "jab" will be misplaced if he compares Bucks winning a BnF as a 22 year old. Greening would have won a Brownlow as a 22 year old (in 1972). Like I said, Greening was already a whole competition star by the time Bucks won his first BnF. Bucks had to wait another 8 or 9 years before he won his Brownlow. Put another 8-9 years into Greening's career (god I wish we could have seen that) and who knows how great he would have become.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Saint, his "jab" will be misplaced if he compares Bucks winning a BnF as a 22 year old. Greening would have won a Brownlow as a 22 year old (in 1972). Like I said, Greening was already a whole competition star by the time Bucks won his first BnF. Bucks had to wait another 8 or 9 years before he won his Brownlow. Put another 8-9 years into Greening's career (god I wish we could have seen that) and who knows how great he would have become.

1977
1979

There’s probably two flags right there.

 

[sr36]

How many best and fairest did he win at the Pies?

Look you're probably right due to the increased coaching and also being full time footballers, the modern guys are probably significantly better than Greening was and Shaun Marsh is probably a better batsman than Bradman was.

But Bradman is the greatest ever batsman, because he was more dominant against his generation than anyone ever has been and probably ever will be. Sport is about competition with your peers, not blokes from 40 years ago or 40 years in the future.