Nick Daicos

[Magpie Since 1986]

If you remove his kick outs (56 for the season - he played on from every single one as he’s not silly) he goes from averaging 2nd most possessions per game to 14th. From 18th most kicks per game to 60th. From 24th in metres gained per game to about 50th.


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When you did this "analysis" did you remove all players kick outs or just Daicos? You've moved him below say Jack Sinclair who has twice as many kick outs this year. Great statistical analysis .

 

[VernonSpots]

It’s funny how it’s all of a sudden become an issue in 2022-2023 after over 120 years

Yeah maybe cos they changed the rules 3-4 years ago and no longer need to 'kick it yourself' before running out of the square and booting it to get the stat?

 

[VernonSpots]

When you did this "analysis" did you remove all players kick outs or just Daicos? You've moved him below say Jack Sinclair who has twice as many kick outs this year. Great statistical analysis .

This is fair. So is the point that kick outs should be removed from the stats line for ALL players. Especially if it impacts Brownlow and other awards....

From a hawks perspective...this would of course hurt Sicily and Hardwick a fair bit.

 

[PieLebo87]

Yeah maybe cos they changed the rules 3-4 years ago and no longer need to 'kick it yourself' before running out of the square and booting it to get the stat?

It has always been a disposal to play on from a kick out. Kicking it to yourself isn’t rocket science. Plenty of players used to play on to get a fast break away out of d50.

 

[Noidnadroj]

It’s funny how it’s all of a sudden become an issue in 2022-2023 after over 120 years [emoji23]

Has been an issue over the last few seasons when auto play on came in …. previously playing on from full back when you had to wait for all clear and also kick it to yourself was very rare. Now it happens almost every time.. Daicos played on from 100% of his kick outs. And even if not gaining ground by running it out, he just steps 6 inches outside the square to kick so it counts as a stat… he’s not the only one that does this mind you.


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[Mitchell Madness]

It has always been a disposal to play on from a kick out. Kicking it to yourself isn’t rocket science. Plenty of players used to play on to get a fast break away out of d50.

The kick to yourself didn't count, only the second kick did.
Having the need to kick to yourself allowed the teams to apply defensive pressure, or sit back

Now they all sit back because they know how it will go

 

[Noidnadroj]

How do you rate the rest of his game outside the kick ins ?

He’s an outstanding player. One of the best second year players I’ve ever seen.

This kick out thing is not a Naicos criticism, I think it’s ridiculous for all players, particularly when stats are such a huge part of what’s used to analyse performance.


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[Noidnadroj]

Maybe if you stop reading stats (and in Dusty's case making them up) and just watched the game, you may get a better appreciation for how good the kid is.
Do you really think Nick or any Collingwood supporter cares whether he is 2nd, 14th, or 60th for disposal, or if his 38th kick on his left side, led to a score involvement to the northern end of the ground, or any other obscure stat you want to throw out there?

He is a 20yo kid, who loves playing football, just wants to get the ball, have a kick and does it with an infectious smile on his face.

One doesn't need stats, to see if a player is a gun or not.

Please keep you BS stats and ratings to the Dusty GOAT thread, that is where your embarrassing take on football, should be kept.

I said kick outs shouldn’t be included in a players stats. When a player … any player … steps 6 inches outside the square and passes it 16m to a teammate in the pocket, I don’t think that should count as a kick. When I see a defender run 15m and kick 55m to a contest at half back that counts as 70m towards their ‘metres gained’, but not sure it should.

Like I said … when assessing end of game stats and a commentator trumpets how Jayden Short had 22 kicks and 885m gained, I think it’s meaningless if 7 kicks and 400m gained were from kick outs - I’d just like to know this info.

If you think they should count as kicks and metres gained and go towards DE%, that’s your opinion and I’ve got no problem with that.

If you can find a single reference to me not rating Naicos as a great player and one of the best second year players I’ve ever seen then… well …. You’d be jumping to lots of incorrect conclusions.


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[adammania9]

Even more unbelievable that a player ranked 14th for touches 60th for kicks per game would have swept the Brownlow and Coaches' POTY award without a late injury costing him 3 games. A testament to his efficiency.

 

[Noidnadroj]

When you did this "analysis" did you remove all players kick outs or just Daicos? You've moved him below say Jack Sinclair who has twice as many kick outs this year. Great statistical analysis .

Sinclair was the only one, so he’d have been 13th … for kicks and metres gained he’d have been a lot lower than what is said but I raised him up 15-20 places - I wasn’t going to analyse every single player, it was just an example.

Taking kick outs away won’t change my mind he’s a great player. To be honest others like Jayden Short, Luke Ryan and Houston will be far more adversely affected by removing those misleading stats.


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[HairyO]

The kick to yourself didn't count, only the second kick did.
Having the need to kick to yourself allowed the teams to apply defensive pressure, or sit back

Now they all sit back because they know how it will go

The player on the mark is now about 18 to 20 metres out, where as it used to be around 12m out. So the player charging back into play has a huge advantage to clear the ball now.

 

[beerbandit]

Weak as piss

 

[PieLebo87]

The kick to yourself didn't count, only the second kick did.
Having the need to kick to yourself allowed the teams to apply defensive pressure, or sit back

Now they all sit back because they know how it will go

Yeah I know, my point though is it was still a disposal after they kicked to themselves for over 120 years.

 

[Caligo]

I dont understand why clubs haven't learned from the last three times Hawthorn have played Daicos (one of those games was pre-season). Even an awful team can completely nullify him if you want to.

 

[PieLebo87]

He’s an outstanding player. One of the best second year players I’ve ever seen.

This kick out thing is not a Naicos criticism, I think it’s ridiculous for all players, particularly when stats are such a huge part of what’s used to analyse performance.


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Why though? You still have to execute the skill though. What’s the difference between a kick out and the closest player taking a free kick for an OOB/insufficient intent?

 

[Caligo]

Why though? You still have to execute the skill though. What’s the difference between a kick out and the closest player taking a free kick for an OOB/insufficient intent?

The difference is the number of OOB kicks is statistically insignifigant for any individual player.

If the rules were changed one day causing a player to average say 7 OOB free kicks every game, it would absolutely be up for discussion.

 

[jakson68]

I said kick outs shouldn’t be included in a players stats. When a player … any player … steps 6 inches outside the square and passes it 16m to a teammate in the pocket, I don’t think that should count as a kick. When I see a defender run 15m and kick 55m to a contest at half back that counts as 70m towards their ‘metres gained’, but not sure it should.

Like I said … when assessing end of game stats and a commentator trumpets how Jayden Short had 22 kicks and 885m gained, I think it’s meaningless if 7 kicks and 400m gained were from kick outs - I’d just like to know this info.

If you think they should count as kicks and metres gained and go towards DE%, that’s your opinion and I’ve got no problem with that.

If you can find a single reference to me not rating Naicos as a great player and one of the best second year players I’ve ever seen then… well …. You’d be jumping to lots of incorrect conclusions.


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My personal opinion on kick ins, is that they shouldn't be included, though my multi's are glad that they are.

I don't look at stats, or breakdowns, as the one thing BF and the BS of Champion Data has shown me, is that stats can be made to represent any narrative you want them to.

I instead like to watch the players and anybody with both eyes open, can see that young Nick is absolutely exceptional.

He has fun and I smile watching him go about it 100% of the time.

And that is the only stat, I care about.

 

[PieLebo87]

The difference is the number of OOB kicks is statistically insignifigant for any individual player.

If the rules were changed one day causing a player to average say 7 OOB free kicks every game, it would absolutely be up for discussion.

So is kick outs. Some days, a team may kick 5-6 behinds, some days, they might kick 15-16 - very rarely is it just the one player who takes all the kick outs for a team too.

It’s honestly just a talking about right now because it’s just a (weak) argument to try and bring down Nick Daicos. Deadset, I’ve never even heard about kick outs being disposals as an issue before Nick Daicos started doing it. Why start now?

Btw, he had 7 kick outs in 9 games after the bye round. That in itself shows how insignificant it is when talking about him.

 

[CasuallyDressed]

Closest he got to somebody that wasn't a team mate all day, what a coward

He had 11 contested possessions you moron.

****ing PREMIERS baby.

 

[PieLebo87]

Btw if the topic of kick outs isn’t about Nick Daicos, maybe we should start a thread about it instead of derailing a thread about Daicos.

 

[JyeDye]

So is kick outs. Some days, a team may kick 5-6 behinds, some days, they might kick 15-16 - very rarely is it just the one player who takes all the kick outs for a team too.

It’s honestly just a talking about right now because it’s just a (weak) argument to try and bring down Nick Daicos. Deadset, I’ve never even heard about kick outs being disposals as an issue before Nick Daicos started doing it. Why start now?

Btw, he had 7 kick outs in 9 games after the bye round. That in itself shows how insignificant it is when talking about him.

Probably because you only really follow discussions around Collingwood. Go to the Supercoach board and it's brought up everyday. It's the easiest stat to get, you basically just pick anyone who takes kick ins as a defender in Supercoach. Everyone had ****ing Rory Atkins in their side this season, and he's the biggest spud imaginable. I don't care about it at all in regards to Nick Daicos, but he does love his stat sheet that's for sure, I absolutely guarantee you he will never not play-on from a kick in. That's not really any criticism about his actual play, I don't care at all that he does it and anyone constantly bringing it up is just an idiot.

 

[jakson68]

Closest he got to somebody that wasn't a team mate all day, what a coward

WOW, the pain is actually real with you isnt it?
Serious question - R U OK?

Have a rest, a cup of tea, or even a Bex.
If you have a friend, give them a call and have a chat.
Please don't drive a vehicle in your condition, as it is never you, until it is.

Sing a lulaby, or think happy thoughts.
Here I will start you off.

Somewhere over the rainbow

 

[faible]

It’s funny how it’s all of a sudden become an issue in 2022-2023 after over 120 years

It changed a lot with the not having the bounce to kick-in rule change a few years back. It's very fantasy relevant whether players play on from a kick-in or not as one is a stat and the other isn't.

 

[Captivating]

Given Collingwood scored 18 behinds, who was Brisbane's kick-in stats beneficiary?

 

[adammania9]

Given Collingwood scored 18 behinds, who was Brisbane's kick-in stats beneficiary?

McKenna 6
Coleman 5
Wilmot 4