Toast Nick Dal Santo appointed AFLW Head Coach

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Great appointment, can help with the mens side on occasion too. Just good to have him back.
 
Groater said:
What do ppl feel about this? Is he a genuinely good appointment? Has a jobs-for-the-boys feel.

Hopefully not just about saving money.
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It's unexpected, but Dal knows football very very well. He's spoken before about how much he enjoys teaching the Academy players and specifically developing skills. Given the age of the list, thats going to be a huge focus to get them to improve so he's a good fit on that front.
 
Groater said:
What do ppl feel about this? Is he a genuinely good appointment? Has a jobs-for-the-boys feel.

Hopefully not just about saving money.
Click to expand...

Very intelligent, well spoken, amiable. Comes from the Grant Thomas school of development. Nothing like "jobs for the boys", he brings St Kilda culture and heart and a clear passion for the womens game. Was Searle a "jobs for the boys" appointment because she was a Saints supporter and involved with the club? It's nonsense. People getting upset because we didn't hire a woman for the sake of being a woman. If there's a better candidate out there and they happen to be a woman/non-binary/anything else but a man, then I'm sure they will be snapped up by one of the other 13+ clubs, or an AFL club! Far out, some people look for anything to be upset about these days.
 
Munga said:
Very intelligent, well spoken, amiable. Comes from the Grant Thomas school of development. Nothing like "jobs for the boys", he brings St Kilda culture and heart and a clear passion for the womens game. Was Searle a "jobs for the boys" appointment because she was a Saints supporter and involved with the club? It's nonsense. People getting upset because we didn't hire a woman for the sake of being a woman. If there's a better candidate out there and they happen to be a woman/non-binary/anything else but a man, then I'm sure they will be snapped up by one of the other 13+ clubs, or an AFL club! Far out, some people look for anything to be upset about these days.
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Dal was one of my favourite players and I think he's a great guy. He may be a great coach, but how much coaching has he done up to now? I'm not sure this was the job for him.

This isn't just about Dal or St Kilda, it's a competition-wide problem. I read somewhere that AFLW now has zero women coaches. I don't believe that's merit. There is something structurally wrong.

That's my view
 
Groater said:
Dal was one of my favourite players and I think he's a great guy. He may be a great coach, but how much coaching has he done up to now? I'm not sure this was the job for him.

This isn't just about Dal or St Kilda, it's a competition-wide problem. I read somewhere that AFLW now has zero women coaches. I don't believe that's merit. There is something structurally wrong.

That's my view
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Which women do you think should be AFLW coaches?
 

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Groater said:
Dal was one of my favourite players and I think he's a great guy. He may be a great coach, but how much coaching has he done up to now? I'm not sure this was the job for him.

This isn't just about Dal or St Kilda, it's a competition-wide problem. I read somewhere that AFLW now has zero women coaches. I don't believe that's merit. There is something structurally wrong.

That's my view
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Don't think it's a stretch to say that at this point of AFLW, the men still have a lot more experience and knowledge required to be a coach of an AFL/AFLW team.
I have no idea if Dal is any good as a coach but don't think it's particularly strange not to have any female head coaches right now, I'd hope there is plenty of female assistant coaches being trained though.
 
Groater said:
it's a competition-wide problem
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I respect your view. My view is that it isn't a "problem". It's just a sign of where the people in the sport are at, it's a numbers game. The fact is there are thousands, tens of thousands of men who have been playing the game at the top level for decades. I'd say most of the women playing today are relatively new to playing the sport, the top competition is only five years old!

There have been three female coaches so far in the AFLW, one would think they were the best going around at the time. Our first coach, Searle, was a great pioneer, had a long and rewarding history. She stepped down. Bec Goddard was successful, she resigned from the Crows and left the sport but now at the Hawks. Cowan had a win rate of 28%.

The women playing AFLW today will be the coaches of tomorrow. It's happening now, it takes time. Clubs don't need to be forced to hire anyone just to appease some people with a chip on their shoulder. The numbers are growning rapidly. It might take another 10 or 20 years for these girls to become leading coaches. There might be a few women in local leagues who might be ready to go, who knows? But the AFLW is growing quickly in many ways, tactically is one of them.

On sheer numbers alone, it would seem a tad ridiculous, and negligent to their players, to have a league full of female coaches just to send a message.
Get the best coaches today to teach the players/future coaches of tomorrow.
 
 
Dal has been at the club already for a while. I think his personality will really suit the girls, he's a very positive and friendly person. Great communicator with the right amount of professionalism and people skills to do a great job. I honestly think he will be a great fit. He's a bit like Daniel Harford in his personality, the women that play under him love his coaching style. I think Dal will be the same.
 
Munga said:
The women playing AFLW today will be the coaches of tomorrow.
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I want to believe, but I don't see how. We're coming up on season six and I don't think many clubs have hired retiring players into their coaching groups, even as assistants. There's only a handful of female line coaches, the only one that played (that I'm aware of) was Tesoriero. There's more current and ex-men's players with no previous coaching experience at all who have been hired to be line coaches. NAB League coaching roles are all men now, because the boys and girls get the same coach and nobody is hiring a woman to be senior coach of the boys.

The only places I can see female coaches go to get exposure is the VFLW and the Champs. Hickey coaching the Country team to an undefeated champs makes her about as qualified to coach as Burkie was when the Dogs hired him (probably more so when you consider the Falcons), but I haven't heard her linked to anything. The reigning VFLW premiership coach (Cula-Reid) is a woman and, if the Pies win this weekend, the next one (McMillan) will be too, but I've heard no mention of either in coaching searches. Goddard hasn't been able to get back in and Searle got two years with an expansion team before getting passed over by the Cats for a line coach on a 1-8 team (that only beat the 0-9 team).

Maybe it's a lack of foresight on my part, but I just don't see what's going to change between now and the future. As long as clubs value what players have done in the men's space over coaching in the women's, it's going to be extremely unlikely that any particular coaching hire is going to be a woman.
 
Played cricket with Penny C-R lol. We opened the batting together 😂 , hadn't seen or heard about her for years and then saw her playing AFLW. Wonder what she's doing now.
 
Vacuous Space said:
I want to believe, but I don't see how. We're coming up on season six and I don't think many clubs have hired retiring players into their coaching groups, even as assistants. There's only a handful of female line coaches, the only one that played (that I'm aware of) was Tesoriero. There's more current and ex-men's players with no previous coaching experience at all who have been hired to be line coaches. NAB League coaching roles are all men now, because the boys and girls get the same coach and nobody is hiring a woman to be senior coach of the boys.

The only places I can see female coaches go to get exposure is the VFLW and the Champs. Hickey coaching the Country team to an undefeated champs makes her about as qualified to coach as Burkie was when the Dogs hired him (probably more so when you consider the Falcons), but I haven't heard her linked to anything. The reigning VFLW premiership coach (Cula-Reid) is a woman and, if the Pies win this weekend, the next one (McMillan) will be too, but I've heard no mention of either in coaching searches. Goddard hasn't been able to get back in and Searle got two years with an expansion team before getting passed over by the Cats for a line coach on a 1-8 team (that only beat the 0-9 team).

Maybe it's a lack of foresight on my part, but I just don't see what's going to change between now and the future. As long as clubs value what players have done in the men's space over coaching in the women's, it's going to be extremely unlikely that any particular coaching hire is going to be a woman.
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I'll weigh in here for a moment as a person who has covered women's footy since 2013.

The common misconception is "don't worry, when the current AFLW players retire, they'll then become coaches".

Ask yourself this, who coached these current AFLW stars before the AFLW? It was mostly women coaches in the state leagues, preparing the stars we see today.

Let me rattle off some names...

Chloe McMillan - Was Development Coach at Collingwood, before taking over in 2020 as VFLW Coach. In 2018 and 2019 the Pies were VFLW Minor Premiers, 2019 Premiers and now as head coach has them undefeated and in this week's Grand Final.

Krissie Steen - 2017 SAWFL Premiership Coach (Adelaide Uni), 2018 SANFLW Premiership coach (South Adelaide), 2019 GWS Giants AFLW Assistant Coach and 2020 SANFLW Undefeated Premiership coach (North Adelaide).

Nicole Graves - 2006 Australian women's international rules coach, WA state coach, multiple flags with Swan Districts (WAWFL), established the Victoria female football development program (over 15 years ago) and Carlton's General Manager of Women’s footy in 2019 (when they made the grand final).

Tracey Kick - Former NSW/ACT coach, multiple flags with Sydney Uni (AFL Sydney), former GWS Giants AFLW assistant coach - in fact, voluntarily prepared their 2019 VFLW squad, before losing the gig to a bloke before the games were played.

Nikki Harwood - Former WA state side assistant coach, former Collingwood AFLW assistant coach, WAFLW Premiership coach with East Fremantle

Bec Goddard - Former AFL Canberra rep side coach, NSW/ACT assistant coach, 2017 AFLW PREMIERSHIP COACH, current Hawthorn VFLW coach.

That's just some women... and there are also men in the women's footy system...

Patrick Hill - Former VFL seniors and reserves coach, 2018 VFLW Premiership coach with Hawthorn and current Saints AFLW assistant coach.

Scott Gowans - Coach Vic Country U18 girls to their first ever win, then the championship next season. In 2017 took Diamond Creek from missing the finals to a Grand Final and completely changed their game style. Had an 11-3 record with North Melbourne AFLW before losing his job to Darren Crocker due to soft cap cuts. Now assistant coach at Collingwood AFLW.


I understand the initial enthusiasm from Saints fans for Dal because you know him and grew up with him (as opposed to the above names). Was he the best among the candidates who applied or were invited? I don't know, I haven't seen the list.

Is Dal the best available out there? No.

Let's be honest, the club wants him more involved with the men's side, and the Women's head coaching gig is a way of nudging him that way and making the most of the smaller (due to Covid cuts) soft cap.
 
George said:
Played cricket with Penny C-R lol. We opened the batting together 😂 , hadn't seen or heard about her for years and then saw her playing AFLW. Wonder what she's doing now.
Click to expand...

Played AFLW Season One with the Pies before moving into coaching as Collingwood's VFLW Coach.

In 2018 won the minor premiership before her side lost both the major semi-final and preliminary final.

In 2019 won the minor premiership again, dropping only one regular season game (to an Essendon side with Georgia Patrikios as BOG) before going on to win the premiership.

Left Collingwood for Williamstown at the end of 2019, as the Seagulls offered a full-time role (where the Pies wouldn't).

Finished 2021 second-last due to some unfortunate timing. Her list manager held back on signing some players because he was going for and got the Port Melbourne VFLW coaching role. The "better" players signed with Port and they finished 3rd. Would have been a different year for Williamstown if that didn't all go down two and half months before the season started!
 
New AFLW Senior Coach Nick Dal Santo addresses the group - YouTube

good talker.
 
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