Opinion Nick Reiwoldt - The Flawed Champion

Herne Hill Hammer

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No. Lol at excuse. You can’t even construct a proper sentence to explain yourself. Do you lack basic writing skills? You wrote century, amongst some of the dumber things I have read here, congratulations.
He wrote, this century, which means this 21st century.

If he'd written, over the past century or this past century or over the last 100 years, you'd have an argument, but he didn't, so stop showing everyone how stupid you are and quit while you're behind.
 

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Bollox

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This is the key point.
It almost doesn't matter what the deadshits in the stands think - across the years there have been the odd player is generally recognised as 'the best'.
Rightly or wrongly, not many ever get that tag.
Flaws or not.
Some are seen this way.
Riewoldt was one of them, like it or not.
Sure, but one of the greatest loves for all of us is the way we see the game, and the players.
Our memories are always tinged with lashings of bias that become mixed with selective moments in time. I like it that way.

The perfect example that just came to mind (staying on topic) was in the 2010 GF last quarter (i think??).
Pies ended up winning that flag and Nick Maxwell was lauded for his feats and heroics. One moment often replayed was where he dived full length to save a goal in the last qtr with the flag on the line.
Sure, nice moment...but i could never understand how it was about Maxwell and not the bloke who made the play.
What i see is a flag to be won, and one captain (the most closely checked guy on the ground) takes the game on, does the ruckwork in a FP, gets his own ball, has the vision to see an empty goalsquare, turns and snaps and it is heading straight thru the middle. The other captain was simply out the back of the pack, possibly out of breath, guarding grass, and was damn lucky he got a fingertip to it. One act is "heroic" and the other (far far more important) is largely forgotten. Who actually makes that phenomenal play at that crucial time ? That's leasdership I see...I don't see the "heroic" ancillary stuff that happens as a result of leadership.

Its a beautiful thing being able to argue absolute shit for ages about moments in time, or about players past and present. Who cares if people agree or not.
 

Topkent

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Damn good right to the end as well. Rarity.
It will always remain a mystery to me how a bloke can play every position on the ground over a season, including weeks as a KPD, avge 21 disp, 11 marks, and kick 40+ goals and NOT win AA, when even the HFFers kicked 40. If the winger died 2 decades ago, any chance of anyone earning a bench spot as a utility definitely died in 2016. Would have been one of the first 5 selected by ANY coach. You cant buy that coverage. Figure the selectors must have thought he'd won enough of them already.
Start of the 2005 season was massive. He provided possibly BigFooty's biggest meltdown moment when the Mal Michael/Scott thing happened when he snapped a collarbone. Very first game of the season,the brownlow favorite, youngest named AFL captain, his mob favorite for the flag, in front of family and mates at home. Trying to imagine the feeling as a 21/22 yo. The absolute dream of every kid (maybe apart from the kick after siren to win a GF). He saw his entire season flash by in one half of footy and could have stayed in the rooms but didn't. Emotional moment we used to pay out on him, but i can only imagine being 21/22yo's and handling that moment.
I honestly used to hate Riewoldt and think he was a little bitch for that but by the end of his career I was literally in awe of the bloke. He's one of the all time greats no doubt.
 

glengowan

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The key position version of Dangerfield. A brilliant player let down on occasion by his kicking - meaning he won’t be amongst the very top echelon who played the game, but still regarded as a great. Gets extra points for being a one-club player too.
 

Surely Paul

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Brown, Pavlich and Riewoldt all compare pretty well against each other and they were all top 10 players of their eras. Modern players that are probably in that same bucket would be Josh Kennedy and Jack Riewoldt. The actual player you prefer probably comes down to personal preference and team allegiance but they would all be among the best and most valuable players of their era. The only forward clearly better is Franklin.
Er, no.
 

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catscollector

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Franklin isn’t a key forward. He’s a flanker. Sorry.
Nah' he's definitely a key forward and has played most of his entire career at full forward. He will often start games at FF and push up the field around the wings but you rarely see a Vlaustin, Tuohy or Hurn matched up on him directly.
 

Surely Paul

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Nah' he's definitely a key forward and has played most of his entire career at full forward. He will often start games at FF and push up the field around the wings but you rarely see a Vlaustin, Tuohy or Hurn matched up on him directly.
He's played most of his career on a forward flank and plays like a flanker (i.e. doesn't take high marks, plays an opportunist role, occasionally takes chest marks on the lead). He's not a key forward.

Do I win anything?
 

psychobrown

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Yes there will be questions about his straight shooting but he was a very prominent spearhead and was more than a handful for a defender, as we saw. He was smooth to the ball, usually got both hands to it and was good at creating spillage for his teammates in the front half.
 

iameviljez

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As a supporter of a club, some opposition players just strike fear into you when your team is lining up against them. Riewoldt never did for me when Geelong played St Kilda. The best he managed against the Cats was 3.2 in a 7 goal loss.
Might have had more to do with the fact that we were blessed with Taylor, Scarlett, Egan, Harley and Lonergan. No tall forward ever really struck any kind of fear into us over 2007 - 2011.

That said, Riewoldt was just brilliant and if he had played for a bigger club or won a flag, we'd be considering his career very differently. IMO Riewoldt and Buddy are the best tall forwards I have been since Carey. He's a level above Brown, Lloyd, Tredrea, Cloke, etc.
 

juss

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He was a magnificent player, largely built on his sheer will to work, work, work the ground, and combine that with good size, athleticism and good marking ability, he was a champion of the era. Yes, his kicking wasn't the best, and relative to others it's probably a slight weakness.

I probably have him below the best champion forwards I've seen, the Lockett, Carey, Dunstall, Ablett types, but there's no doubt he was one of the dominant players of his era.
 

juss

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Brown and Lloyd. It's extremely close and very subjective. A lot of Lloyd's work was done in the 90's so perhaps that one doesn't count.
Honestly, I never concede this and never will, I find this one of the worst opinions in football when people say Brown was better than Nick Riewoldt. Largely, this is often quoted with the supporting evidence that Brown was a "3-time premiership player". This is largely irrelevant in the Brown v Riewoldt argument, especially since Brown didn't reach his peak heights until well after the premiership years, only kicked 79 goals combined across the 3 premiership years, and even his peak was shorter lived (yes injury was a factor in this).

Brown was enormous only for 3 (possibly 4) year period. Riewoldt was dominant for a decade. Brown is incredibly overrated because people subconsciously extrapolate his 3 best years (07-09, his only 2 AA) to his whole career, and get influenced by the 3-time premiership player tag, largely where he was a structurally important cog but second fiddle to Lynch.

Brown kicked over 50 goals a season 4 times in his entire career, 10 times he kicked less than 40 goals a season (injury is a factor, but I'm only rating him on what he actually achieved). There are so many better records than that as forwards.

It's not even a contest.
 
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LoungeLizard

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Honestly, I never concede this and never will, I find this one of the worst opinions in football when people say Brown was better than Nick Riewoldt. Largely, this is often quoted with the supporting evidence that Brown was a "3-time premiership player". This is largely irrelevant in the Brown v Riewoldt argument, especially since Brown didn't reach his peak heights until well after the premiership years, only kicked 79 goals combined across the 3 premiership years, and even his peak was shorter lived (yes injury was a factor in this).

Brown was enormous only for 3 (possibly 4) year period. Riewoldt was dominant for a decade. Brown is incredibly overrated because people subconsciously extrapolate his 3 best years (07-09, his only 2 AA) to his whole career, and get influenced by the 3-time premiership player tag, largely where he was a structurally important cog but second fiddle to Lynch.

Brown kicked over 50 goals a season 4 times in his entire career, 10 times he kicked less than 40 goals a season (injury is a factor, but I'm only rating him on what he actually achieved). There are so many better records than that as forwards.

It's not even a contest.
Riewolt was better than Brown over the length of their careers, but if they were both at their peaks and i wanted to win 1 game, i would take Brown.
 

BattlerGM

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Brown kicked over 50 goals a season 4 times in his entire career, 10 times he kicked less than 40 goals a season (injury is a factor, but I'm only rating him on what he actually achieved). There are so many better records than that as forwards.

It's not even a contest.
Respectfully, therein lies the flaw in your reasoning. If the question was about who achieved more, then of course it'd be Riewoldt. The question about this particular subsection of the thread is who was better. Brown was a better kick for goal and a better mark. He averaged more goals per game.

His lack of AA selections could probably be explained by his injuries during his peak years.

We may be splitting hairs. Both are absolute champions and this issue is subjective. To say it's not even a contest is folly.
 

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