Nick Suban - When?

[Kram]

I'd package him up in a deal to get Jesse Hogan to where he belongs.

How are Freo going to get the number 1 pick to throw in with that?

 

[Kepfan]

In my opinion suban played well last year. He is among a whole host of young players who you would hope would improve this year. Singling him out as a player that hasn't filled his potential is unfair. Hill, Clarke, de pig and many more all have room in their game for improvement. The whole team needs to improve if we are to hold up the cup.

 

[strobe00]

Bagging him with a negative tone. Now I know why some call you the worst mod ever.

I can only think of one. That Pure Bogan fella.

Then again whiteoak likely did at some point. Bushie might have also. Slicedndiced similar.

That's a few folks innit. They must be right. Sorry lach.

 

[scon]

One week at a time;the entire 22 needs to improve from last week if we are to make the top 8.

 

[FreoRicci]

Wells was a much better player at the same age.

Sure, but the side has been exposed for lack of midfield depth against good opponents. Can the side win if Barlow goes down? Some other guys need to step up in the absence of first class midfielders. The midfield needs to bat much deeper. Suban is the right age to step up. Will he?

Stephen Hill is a much better player, by a long margin, than Suban is.

Ruckmen and key forwards don't count, but even then most key forwards have begun to emerge by the age of 23.

Comparing apples to oranges here. Wells vs Suban and Hill vs Suban? Wells is probably the prime example of a player who has so much potential and hype that he has barely even reached the levels capable. Maybe had one good season last year but apart from that probably underperformed most of his career.
Suban has had setbacks, played out of position and still finding where he needs to play in the team we have. So does De Boer, Mayne (of the same draft camp), Zac Clarke.

 

[Harry Reems]

What is about Subes when we play against Hawthorn?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...against-hawthorn/story-e6frf9lf-1226626703530

Mind you he bounced back like Sharrod Wellingham on a trampoline the following week.

I remember Ibbo having a shocker this time last year too and was forced to play for East Fremantle on Good Friday as a result. He also came back with a new lease on life the following week.

 

[pavsbootlace]

I think Suban's issue is that he is not fast enough to be a really damaging outside runner and he doesn't have the requisite height (and therefore weight) nor the lightning fast reflexes to be a powerful inside, clearance midfielder. I think that is why he struggles to get enough of the footy on a regular basis.

Having said that, he's tough as an old boot and his left foot is absolutely elite. I think we can expect more consistent performances from Suban, but I don't think he'll ever be A-grade.

 

[Bender571]

Good answer Bender571. When should he be as good as those three? Bear in mind that while Mzungu was a later starter, Pearce and Sylvia were much better players at the same age. I chose Ablett and Mundy because they are standard bearers for late bloomers. Danyle Pearce was as good as he is now essentially from debut.

They're aren't a lot of players who significantly improve after 25, so if he's going to step up a level he's probably going to this year or next. To be as good as the second rung midfielders he just needs to improve his consistency, he can have damaging games but he can also go completely missing. I think part of his problem is he has no consistent role within the team. Inside he's behind Mundy, Fyfe and Barlow, outside he's behind Hill and Pearce, so he's probably in that third group of mids with De Boer, Neale, Sutcliffe, Sheridan where their role depends on the opposition.

In terms of realistic improvement for him I'd be hoping he no longer warrants a sub vest, he stops having his poor/quiet games and that he finds the ball and the goals a little bit more (which should come if he achieves the first 2 anyway). If we were to continue the Geelong comparison you'd be hoping for him to follow someone like Kelly. Doing a solid job but in the shadow of the A graders, taking a decent step up in his 9th season.

 

[Silent Alarm]

I personally like him higher up the ground than he's been playing. Hasn't he been used in the Clancee Pearce position of half back with nice disposal? I don't know, I kind of feel like his best tools are his skills and ball-reading and he's not being able to use them where he is.

And the other thing is, it's like he should've been drafted in 1997. He doesn't have the fashionable quick speed and ludicrous engine that most clubs expect, or that most guys in his position (seven years on a list, 70 odd games) have. He is not an athlete and at AFL level that's probably his issue. He'd be getting 35 touches and never missing a chest or pair of hands if the game wasn't structured the way it is. But it is.

 

[Harry Reems]

One problem he has is that when he goes to ground in a contest, he usually drags the ball in and gets pinged for holding the ball. He may as well just handball to opposition when he gets tackled.

 

[FFC4ME]

I personally like him higher up the ground than he's been playing. Hasn't he been used in the Clancee Pearce position of half back with nice disposal? I don't know, I kind of feel like his best tools are his skills and ball-reading and he's not being able to use them where he is.

If by this you mean more towards the backline, nooooooo...we played him there between 2010 and 2012, and the only thing Subes was able to do there was develop an uncanny knack for giving away free kicks (either by high contact or holding the ball, the latter of which seems to happen to him more than almost anyone else in the comp for unexplained reasons).

Nick's natural position is playing forward of centre, where his long kick and toughness are most useful to the team. He does need to win more of the ball, it's true, but he had a very good season last year anyway and when used as the sub has the happy ability to score.

I also think he still needs to develop an emergency right foot kick - although unlike Danyle Pearce, he doesn't seem to be corralled as often and spend most of his energy running frantically to the left to try and free up the boot!

 

[clogged]

What is about Subes when we play against Hawthorn?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...against-hawthorn/story-e6frf9lf-1226626703530

It's interesting because against a side whose kicking skills are elite you'd think his elite kicking skills would be handy. Maybe Hawthorn deliberately target him - although I've never noticed it. But his fundamental problem is that he can't get the ball.

His two best games in my view were last year against GWS and that game against Essendon in his first year (earning a Rising Star nomination). He hasn't done much in between, and while injuries have hurt him early in his career, he's at age where he has a solid enough fitness base to take the next step. Maybe a combination of bouncing back against Hawthorn and a game against Essendon will be the catalyst?

 

[clogged]

One problem he has is that when he goes to ground in a contest, he usually drags the ball in and gets pinged for holding the ball. He may as well just handball to opposition when he gets tackled.

I think he has become so dependent on his biggest asset that he has not developed other skills like creative handball when in trouble.

 

[jusjoshin]

One problem he has is that when he goes to ground in a contest, he usually drags the ball in and gets pinged for holding the ball. He may as well just handball to opposition when he gets tackled.

I think the umps are a bit responsible as well. He's hardly their darling lovechild. Every single time he is at the bottom of a pack, he will get pinged for HtB. Every. Single. Time. Regardless of how little prior opportunity. Regardless of how many people have joined the pile on his back. Every. Single. Time.

 

[Bender571]

It's interesting because against a side whose kicking skills are elite you'd think his elite kicking skills would be handy. Maybe Hawthorn deliberately target him - although I've never noticed it. But his fundamental problem is that he can't get the ball.

Whilst the Hawks are great kicks, I think that ability gets inflated by their elite ability to spread. They were able to get so much space against us and Essendon in the first half that the kicks didn't need to be pin point. Once Essendon tightened up their kicking wasn't so elite. It's hard to tell from TV but I imagine Suban spent most of the Hawks game chasing tail and then didn't have the fitness to spread when we had the ball.

 

[caterina]

Agreed, I couldn't actually work out on the TV where he was playing against Hawthorn, against goldcoast he was a defensive forward so very much a role player. Anyone at the MCG last week care to comment on his role last week? No point bagging the guy for being an honest toiler if he is being asked to sacrifice his game for honest toiler roles.

 

[Wigarus]

He's only played 2 games this year and we were belted in one of them.

If he kicked either or both of his shots against Gold Coast I would be more than happy with his output that game.

 

[Tazmania]

He reminds me of Michael Braun. Never a star but an honest toiler who played his role. Hopefully he'll prove us wrong.

 

[Freo]

He's just gonna end up as your average role player in the team, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Suban was mostly good last year. I like his appetite for the hard stuff and that he has a bit of Mongrel in him (unlike Hill)

 

[Nickos66]

I get the feeling that last year is pretty much his ceiling as far as potential goes. His year was good, and enough to consider him best 22. However, anything less is questionable and I don't think he'll reach any further heights than last year.

He's started slow, but the season is early. I would however hope that he has - along with the rest of the currently selected 22 - been spoken to in regards to what is expected from them on gameday and that it's time to step up.

 

[Lach72]

He reminds me of Michael Braun. Never a star but an honest toiler who played his role. Hopefully he'll prove us wrong.

He's not even in the same suburb as Braun

 

[Nickos66]

He's not even in the same suburb as Braun

I dunno about that. Braun was no Peppy Grove, he was just surrounded by them most of the time which often drove up his median value...

 

[Gekko71]

FWIW, I think Suban is most dangerous (and most valuable) when he's the one delivering a forward 50 entry - IMO, for much of last season he was our best kick by far - the guy can de-sex a fly with a Sherrin from 55 meters away.

Right now he is under-performing, an asset that's gone missing from last year - but I'm buggered if I've been able to figure out how to get him involved more!

We've changed our game plan to move the ball faster and increase the number of inside-50 entries we get from as many players as possible. In the process Suban seems to have lost that role of being the go-to guy for forward-50 entries from (set-play) forward-half stoppages. His kicking is an asset we are not using to best effect... give me some more time and I'll wrap my head around how to include him more.

He could possibly be really handy for a sudden switch of play out of defence - position him in the corridor on kick-outs from the back-line then try to give him space to kick to leading players on either wing to effect a set-play switch to advantage? ... (this pre-supposes that the opponents zone is not already in place mind you).

I dunno... he's definitely going missing in games right now, but it might be a structural-transition thing more than anything else.

 

[free at last]

How are Freo going to get the number 1 pick to throw in with that?

Wouldn't have a clue.
If Melbourne continue to be $hit which they probably will,hopefully Jesse tears up his contract,and leaves and walks through our open purple doors.

 

[strobe00]

How are Freo going to get the number 1 pick to throw in with that?

Simple enough... we stay in contact with him every week like the Hawks probably did with Longer and Adams, and Essendon probably did with Caddy, and Adelaide probably did with Polec, and when his contract finishes up he asks to be traded back to WA. Then we send them a solid, mature midfielder and as good a pick as we can track down.

The hope is that Melbourne don't (tank to) finish last, else they'd just pick him up in the PSD. It'd also be handy if another Melbourne-based team finished last that year as there'd be a realistic threat that Hogan could chance the PSD and end up in the same city, as it seems unlikely that either of the WA teams will finish last.