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Nick Suban - When?

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Wigarus said:
Every year there is a player that should be dropped all year for a player in the twos.

Michie, Simpson, Morabito

Michie and Morabito were underwhelming and have not shown anything since... Simpson's been delisted...

This year it looks like it's Crozier. I don't know what all the fuss is about, his game was ok last week but it wasn't amazing.



I think Suban is probably the weakest or close to the weakest of the midfielders that played today but I seriously doubt any of his potential replacements would have been better.
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Bit unfair to put morabito in there...
 
riteo said:
Really?

Tendai Mzungu is a much better player, there's no doubt there let alone serious doubt, and Hayden Crozier kicked 3 at the same venue last year. Tommy Sheridan was out injured but when he's fit he'll be another competing for Suban's spot and going on round 1 and pre-season form deserves it more.

MDB has been sub the last two weeks and to his credit has performed his role well. That means Suban is the obvious player to be pushed out in coming weeks; this is not a witch hunt, this is not a crusade, it's just the desire to see our team improve wherever possible. Is 17 harried touches every second week really enough to cement his spot in the team?

Mzungu/Crozier/Sheridan/Blakely/Weller and co aren't Viv Michie, Simpson or Morabito either just quietly. I think that's a very disingenuous comparison.
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I don't know what made you think I thought it was a witch hunt, I said I thought Suban was one of our weakest today. I think the selection has been impeccable for years now and unless you are a big game Fyfe / Hill Pav / Sandi etc. then you will have to force your way back into the team if you are injured.

I mean they test their heart rate and track their GPS data while they train, they control their weight programs and their running programs based on their fitness and they test their knowledge of the gameplan. They even control their diet and their day to day happiness is measured.

Imo, Mzungu, Crozier, and Sheridan are there or thereabouts and are negatively impacted by recent injury. I'm sure they will either force their way in or come in due to injury at some point and Blakely, Weller, Duffy, Langdon etc. will be a while away unless there is significant injury. We have a potentially premiership winning midfield that is building games experience together. They aren't dropping any of them unnecessarily and Ross Lyon wants every set of 4 points he can get. We all know he's extremely conservative and I am sure he doesn't let important decisions like team selection get left to something that can't be measured.
 

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Steinfreo said:
I dont really think Gu and Suban play the same role. Is Suban playing Deboers old role? who is doing Gu's role? Is that role still a thing in 2015 Dockers?
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That's a fair question - and perhaps more broadly you could ask whether roles in general are still a thing at Freo.

Most people would have agreed up until last year that Crowley's role was the most important of all of them - a lockdown tagger who shuts down the opposition's best midfielder. Yet with him being unavailable, that role has not been replaced by anyone in the team. Suban and Clancee have been given defensive midfield roles, but nothing like what Crowley did. Meanwhile, the midfield has played stunning football. Are the two connected? Does not having a lockdown tagger at every clearance give the midfield more freedom?

The top four mids have over 130 possessions and 8 goals yesterday. That's a phenomenal performance. Was Crowley's role missed?

I think a shutdown tagger may be needed in future games, but the quality of football we witnessed from the midfield yesterday was premiership winning, and I'd have more of that before I'd return to the more defensive minded stuff we've seen up until then.
 
clogged said:
That's a fair question - and perhaps more broadly you could ask whether roles in general are still a thing at Freo.

Most people would have agreed up until last year that Crowley's role was the most important of all of them - a lockdown tagger who shuts down the opposition's best midfielder. Yet with him being unavailable, that role has not been replaced by anyone in the team. Suban and Clancee have been given defensive midfield roles, but nothing like what Crowley did. Meanwhile, the midfield has played stunning football. Are the two connected? Does not having a lockdown tagger at every clearance give the midfield more freedom?

The top four mids have over 130 possessions and 8 goals yesterday. That's a phenomenal performance. Was Crowley's role missed?

I think a shutdown tagger may be needed in future games, but the quality of football we witnessed from the midfield yesterday was premiership winning, and I'd have more of that before I'd return to the more defensive minded stuff we've seen up until then.
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Yep exactly my thoughts when the Crowley saga unfolded and that it may be a blessing in disguise for the team in not playing a specialist tagger with limited upside in the midfield. The real change is that we FORCE teams to tag us instead of us doing the automatic tagging (almost a defeatist strategy).
I believe Mzungu will take Suban's spot, simply because he's a better runner (all day) and he gets more of the pill and does more game changing acts than Suban.
The interesting spot for me is the SUB. MDB can't play all year there so I'd expect Sheridan/Crozier/MDB to float through there.
 
In his press conference Ross said something funny about oppo coaches putting plan time into all our mids, and included Suban! He's a funny man is Ross.
 
malpaso said:
Yep exactly my thoughts when the Crowley saga unfolded and that it may be a blessing in disguise for the team in not playing a specialist tagger with limited upside in the midfield. The real change is that we FORCE teams to tag us instead of us doing the automatic tagging (almost a defeatist strategy).
I believe Mzungu will take Suban's spot, simply because he's a better runner (all day) and he gets more of the pill and does more game changing acts than Suban.
The interesting spot for me is the SUB. MDB can't play all year there so I'd expect Sheridan/Crozier/MDB to float through there.
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Yeah towards the end of today's flogging, I was thinking: Gu would still be running now.
 
gaskin said:
Big bodies will be needed next week and as much as I don't want Subes in the team, he'll be needed. Round 5 v Melbourne I'd like to see Ross pull the trigger.
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It's a bit of a stretch to call Suban a big body. In fact I suspect if Suban was a big body we would not even be having conversations on his place in the team.

He's not a conventionally gifted player so he needs to provide something special: but he doesn't.

Suban is an under-sized trier - this isn't 2011 - Suban isn't going to spontaneously turn into a reliable, first 18 player - he's done his dash.

If we are going to suffer a player who is flaky we may as well play Crozier. Crozier can do everything Suban can do and more, plus he has an upside Suban will never have.
 

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Oh ffs there are some knobs on this board.
Why, after that first half performance and the coach's comments do you feel the need to have a go at one of our players?

Out: Andrew99, Junglistposse.
 
Clems Knee said:
Oh ffs there are some knobs on this board.
Why, after that first half performance and the coach's comments do you feel the need to have a go at one of our players?

Out: Andrew99, Junglistposse.
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If this is so offensive to you maybe don't read it.
 
Clems Knee said:
What does that even?

Suban played his role. He is credited with eight tackles, the game highest.
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Most tackled and holding the balls against too. Could have almost scored a try. :thumbsu:
 
Wigarus said:
Every year there is a player that should be dropped all year for a player in the twos.

Michie, Simpson, Morabito

Michie and Morabito were underwhelming and have not shown anything since... Simpson's been delisted...

This year it looks like it's Crozier. I don't know what all the fuss is about, his game was ok last week but it wasn't amazing.



I think Suban is probably the weakest or close to the weakest of the midfielders that played today but I seriously doubt any of his potential replacements would have been better.
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Croizer will be playing much more, don't worry about that. He's not a talent to have in the twos. Besides Michie, Simpson have unfortunately turned out to be bust. Thought it was going to be Clancee Pearce who will face time in the twos but to his credit is getting better and better.
 

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