Nicky Winmar to be honoured with statue.

[Bostonian]

Batman basically was a bounty hunter and made money killing aboriginals in Tsmania and did the same in South Africa

The fact there is so much named after him in the city is quite appalling

Bounty hunters catch Crims.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Attitude of WA fans on here shows it's in the right place

 

[Ron The Bear]

Batman basically was a bounty hunter and made money killing aboriginals in Tsmania and did the same in South Africa

The fact there is so much named after him in the city is quite appalling

Should this come down?

Get Light off the hill

Taking this line of thinking to its extremity, we will end up handing the country over to Aboriginals.

 

[Bicko]

Should this come down?

Get Light off the hill

Taking this line of thinking to its extremity, we will end up handing the country over to Aboriginals.

Well if he was a scumbag murderer of Aboriginal people, then yes, pull it down and bring to light others that did the same. Genocide is extreme, acknowledging the truth is not.

 

[WCE_phil]

I read somewhere years ago that Winmar lifted his jumper and pointed to his stomach to show the Collingwood ferals that he played with guts that day rather than pointing to his skin to say he was proud to be black, then when that photo of him got turned into a big racial incident he just decided to roll with it.

From the horses mouth while he was drunk at the Vic park hotel as well. So a lying, drunkard, wife beater gets a statue at perth stadium.

You want a statue of an indigenous WA footballer then Farmer or T.I

The likes of Peter Matera and Cable are principally from other races with smaller parts being Indigenous (ie the matera's being primarily italian and cable being ~75% english due to an english born father and half caste mother however cable has a much greater tie to indigenous heritage due to his upbringing)

Please go on, tell me im racist. I have more Indigenous blood running through me than the matera's and almost as much as cable.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Well if he was a scumbag murderer of Aboriginal people, then yes, pull it down and bring to light others that did the same. Genocide is extreme, acknowledging the truth is not.

History without context is worthless, even dangerous. Context might not make it palatable, but it will improve your understanding.

 

[Snake_Baker]

It saddens me to see the footy career of a very talented player reduced to one incident.

They shouldn't build the thing at all, if they're not going to place it at Moorabin in honor of his great StKilda career.

 

[Bicko]

What is that context, that they deserved it? Or, have I misinterpreted what you originally posted?

 

[Ron The Bear]

What is that context, that they deserved it? Or, have I misinterpreted what you originally posted?

In the dim dark past there was no genocide, only primitive creatures without souls that may or may not impede civilization. If you don’t recognise them as human, there can be no murder, no genocide.

 

[Bicko]

Yes, I understand that. Problem is these people were so called ‘christians’, and they should of known better, considering the fundamental teachings of Jesus. A very poor and wicked reason by those men.

 

[estibador]

Some gestures symbolise a stance taken. Jesse Owens black power statue against Hilter in the '36 Olympics, and on a smaller stage Winmar's black and proud of it photo has similar meaning.

I think you're mixing up two different events there. The black power salute was in the 1968 games.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Yes, I understand that. Problem is these people were so called ‘christians’, and they should of known better, considering the fundamental teachings of Jesus. A very poor and wicked reason by those men.

You still don't get it, you're looking at it through a modern lens. We take it for granted today that we can recognise another human being. Those times weren't as enlightened, and if the natives were sometimes violent, any doubts or scruples were erased.

 

[Plugger35]

From the horses mouth while he was drunk at the Vic park hotel as well. So a lying, drunkard, wife beater gets a statue at perth stadium.

You want a statue of an indigenous WA footballer then Farmer or T.I

The likes of Peter Matera and Cable are principally from other races with smaller parts being Indigenous (ie the matera's being primarily italian and cable being ~75% english due to an english born father and half caste mother however cable has a much greater tie to indigenous heritage due to his upbringing)

Please go on, tell me im racist. I have more Indigenous blood running through me than the matera's and almost as much as cable.

Calling Winmar a liar is a bit much, even if it wasn't a racial gesture it was other people that misinterpreted it and turned into something it wasn't, not him.

It would be hard for him to come clean about it now that it's become such an iconic image for racial discrimination in football, easier to just go with the flow.

He is a fairly shy unassuming bloke too so it's not like he would have lied about something like that to get attention, he'd much rather shun the spotlight.

 

[Bicko]

You still don't get it, you're looking at it through a modern lens. We take it for granted today that we can recognise another human being. Those times weren't as enlightened, and if the natives were sometimes violent, any doubts or scruples were erased.

Are you sure, can you say with certainty that everyone was a hate filled rascist with murderous thoughts towards aboriginals. I find that hard to believe, I hope that is not how you justify our past.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

You still don't get it, you're looking at it through a modern lens. We take it for granted today that we can recognise another human being. Those times weren't as enlightened, and if the natives were sometimes violent, any doubts or scruples were erased.

People of Batman’s day considered him as “a rouge, cheat, thief, liar, a murderer of blacks and the vilest man I have ever known”.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Are you sure, can you say with certainty that everyone was a hate filled rascist with murderous thoughts towards aboriginals. I find that hard to believe, I hope that is not how you justify our past.

Practically everyone had 'racist' beliefs by today's standards. That Batman's treaty was (to my knowledge) the only one offered to Aboriginals suggests he recognised at least some humanity. Apparently he was attended by Aboriginals in his dying days. Not contending there weren't individuals who enjoyed killing. Maybe Batman was one, I don't know. I'm not a history scholar.

This was the state of human knowledge in the age of powered flight.

Black people according to 1911 Britannica

 

[Brick Loosener]

People of Batman’s day considered him as “a rouge, cheat, thief, liar, a murderer of blacks and the vilest man I have ever known”.

He did that on purpose. Everyone liked him as Bruce Wayne, hated him as Batman.

 

[Bicko]

Practically everyone had 'racist' beliefs by today's standards. That Batman's treaty was (to my knowledge) the only one offered to Aboriginals suggests he recognised at least some humanity. Apparently he was attended by Aboriginals in his dying days. Not contending there weren't individuals who enjoyed killing. Maybe Batman was one, I don't know. I'm not a history scholar.

This was the state of human knowledge in the age of powered flight.

Black people according to 1911 Britannica

No, I don’t know anything about Bateman either. But, still don’t think you can say people were more rascist back then. Maybe they were in the British aristocracy, but that doesn’t account for the rest of the human race. I bet you the common convict who stole for the sake of his stomach, had sympathy for the Aboriginal who’s culture and land was being taken away.

 

[radiojake]

Should this come down?

Get Light off the hill

Taking this line of thinking to its extremity, we will end up handing the country over to Aboriginals.

I don't know anything about Light's relationship with the Kaurna and that link is paywalled

Batman was the first to make a 'treaty' with indigenous people, but he never kept his end of the deal

He made money from taking scalps in Tasmania

He went to South Africa and did the same


We all know that 'the times were different' bullshit, but Batman was a particularly bad egg out of a bad bunch

 

[Ron The Bear]

No, I don’t know anything about Bateman either. But, still don’t think you can say people were more rascist back then. Maybe they were in the British aristocracy, but that doesn’t account for the rest of the human race. I bet you the common convict who stole for the sake of his stomach, had sympathy for the Aboriginal who’s culture and land was being taken away.

That's not what I'm saying at all. You can look back and call it racism, but they didn't know any better. Native culture wasn't a consideration, it wasn't something to be studied or preserved. There was no Aboriginal nation with sovereign claim to the land. Later than the Pinjarra massacre mentioned above, the south island of New Zealand was declared terra nullius.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I don't know anything about Light's relationship with the Kaurna and that link is paywalled

Batman was the first to make a 'treaty' with indigenous people, but he never kept his end of the deal

He made money from taking scalps in Tasmania

He went to South Africa and did the same


We all know that 'the times were different' bullshit, but Batman was a particularly bad egg out of a bad bunch

Batman's treaty was annulled by the Governor.

Yeah he was a bounty hunter. His request for a reward from the government for bringing in Aboriginals alive was declined, hence the killing at the least provocation.

The running down of Batman is a modern phenomenon coinciding with the rise of the Greens. I'm reading in various places that he was a "womaniser", but without any evidence as to same. Certainly he held a lower social status than the gentry of the day, and in his efforts to ingratiate himself and improve his standing, made a number of enemies.

Not defending Batman's character as I don't know enough. Let the truth be heard, as far as it can be ascertained.

 

[Bicko]

That's not what I'm saying at all. You can look back and call it racism, but they didn't know any better. Native culture wasn't a consideration, it wasn't something to be studied or preserved. There was no Aboriginal nation with sovereign claim to the land. Later than the Pinjarra massacre mentioned above, the south island of New Zealand was declared terra nullius.

They definitely knew better, they were the British Empire. Conquering primitive territories is something they excelled at. I don’t think they would been surprised by the locals resistance to not to want assimilate into European culture.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Batman's treaty was annulled by the Governor.

Yeah he was a bounty hunter. His request for a reward from the government for bringing in Aboriginals alive was declined, hence the killing at the least provocation.

The running down of Batman is a modern phenomenon coinciding with the rise of the Greens. I'm reading in various places that he was a "womaniser", but without any evidence as to same. Certainly he held a lower social status than the gentry of the day, and in his efforts to ingratiate himself and improve his standing, made a number of enemies.

Not defending Batman's character as I don't know enough. Let the truth be heard, as far as it can be ascertained.

His contemporaries considered him a vile murderer, that would suggest that even back then what he was doing was not the norm.

 

[Ron The Bear]

They definitely knew better, they were the British Empire. Conquering primitive territories is something they excelled at. I don’t think they would been surprised by the locals resistance to not to want assimilate into European culture.

Don't think there were any efforts to "assimilate" until later.

Why would the British have known better than the Spanish, Portuguese, French, Dutch, Turks, Russians or any other colonial power?

 

[Ron The Bear]

His contemporaries considered him a vile murderer, that would suggest that even back then what he was doing was not the norm.

Glover said that after Batman was dead. Maybe it was true. Maybe historians in 200 years will dig up Akermanis' quote about Jim Stynes being a very nasty man.