Nicky Winmar to take legal action against Newman, Scott and Sheahan

[Black white]

not quite what you are looking for but Richard Hinds did a good interview on the greatest season that was 93 podcast about afl coverage in 93 and talks about the two papers reporting on the incident, theres also a saints episode with Bruce Eva,

Well would like to listen. But no, not what I was looking for. On this thread, there have been stories of the herald sun newspaper protecting Collingwood and now lavender hamburger claiming death threats.

 

[Black white]

When you sober up, maybe read the article again...

View attachment 901996

This from the same journo that said Adrian McAdam left football after being racially abused shortly after being abused at Vic park.

He conveniently forgot to add Collingwood actually signed him.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Well would like to listen. But no, not what I was looking for. On this thread, there have been stories of the herald sun newspaper protecting Collingwood and now lavender hamburger claiming death threats.

Nor was the potential of this image obvious to the Sunday Herald Sun. Feder recalls arguing with his editors over the racial import of his photograph, which was virtually identical to Ludbey's in all respects other than the angle of Winmar's hand. According to Feder, the editors were insisting:

that Winmar was saying, 'Look at me, I've got guts', or whatever ... and I was saying, 'No no no, he was pointing to his skin', and ... [I was] trying to argue the fact that they should use it on the front ... which I wouldn't do all that often, but I felt strongly about the picture and the moment ... (Feder 2009).

 

[The King!]

Still waiting lavender.... Where does it say death threats , from whom?? and that the club silenced him... It doesn't does it!!!

I tell you what though
That is some classic writing with some bizarre links...

Essentially he links this incident with other incidents which essentially resulted in st.kilda not winning a flag they deserved. Wtf. Yeah, we deserve another 5 flags too.

Adrian McAdam of North Melbourne left football completely " barely seen again" after playing at Victoria park

"It was a Sulphurous crowd that day" written by someone who wasn't there.

"The Collingwood president " said.. ( which Collingwood president and why wasn't he named?? )

"It wasn't quite the den in South LONDON" f me, has he been to the den?? Would love to know. So funny.

"Some fans were not bothered by intellectual concerns". How condescending.

A piece of garbage journalism that mentions nothing about the death threats and the club silencing that you claim.

It highlights how easily things can be manipulated. And YOU by talking Shiite and making up stuff are doing the same.

It also highlights that people have spray painted the image, including defacing Vic park and surrounding streets with the image. Why?


This is not winmars fault. This is clowns like ludbery and yourself trying to milk every inch out of it.

winmar walked out for money after that game didnt see him until round 8, not sure how the club silenced him

 

[Crankyhawk]

Not rewriting anything.

At the time...

Years later...

(Pssst! Where's Peter Norman?)

Stan Grant was a pretty decent current affairs presenter. I liked him. But makes a very one-eyed activist.

Re the peter Norman question I think the idea of that sculpture is to invite the audience to be “part of it” ie stand in the place of Peter Norman

 

[Ron The Bear]

Re the peter Norman question I think the idea of that sculpture is to invite the audience to be “part of it” ie stand in the place of Peter Norman

Yeah that's right. Most Americans don't know who "the white guy" in the photo is.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Yeah that's right. Most Americans don't know who "the white guy" in the photo is.

I thought Americans (probably more African Americans) had more awareness of his than the average Australian (I recall him being interviewed on SEN before he died saying this)

 

[Crankyhawk]

Yeah that's right. Most Americans don't know who "the white guy" in the photo is.

I thought Americans (probably more African Americans) had more awareness of his than the average Australian (I recall him being interviewed on SEN before he died saying this)

 

[StevenwellerHFC]

Thread is piss funny.

 

[Custard Guts]

There are a great many things to love about this image, not least of all the fact James Brown has a Ross Faulkner tucked under the arm.

 

[Grrr]

Can you send through the match report you've read.

or

Charlie McAdam, down from Alice Springs, didn’t see much of it. He’d been forcefully removed from his mother when he was six. He’d worked as a stockman and a boxer. He was standing in the outer but the abuse directed towards his son quickly proved too much. He left Victoria Park in tears. He listened to the rest of the game on radio back at his hotel. “I just couldn’t stomach it,” he later said.

 

[Grrr]

Prejudice wow, really.
Just like to check things, and love reading old reports. You must have read it recently or at one point. Where can I view it then??
Sometimes it's good to check. For example, Lavender bushranger has already been caught out today making up quotes about death threats and pretending it was in an article. Having the audacity and cunning to put his lies in quotation marks and linking to a guardian article written 20 plus years later An article written by some guardian journo that fabricated the truth.

So

Just watch the video again if you have trouble understanding what people say. But of course you don't believe it, so hence the prejudice comment.

You have mentioned that Vic. Park was no worse than anywhere else. Having been there plenty of times back in the day, I can assure you it was no picnic as an opposition supporter, but neither were quite a few of those old suburban grounds. The abuse still goes on today occasionally, 30 years ago it went on all the time. If you think that Collingwood supporters at Vic. Park were going to lie down and let a side like St.Kilda beat them on their own turf with two aboriginal footballers best on ground, then you don't know much about those days.

 

[Ricmel]

My question would be, if he was saying "Gutsy win" why lift up the jumper? You could just point to your gut area.

I think this revisionism is just some old white guys' reaction to BLM and an opportunity to tear down one Australia's iconic images on the matter.

I think the one unfortunate thing about this photo is that it also became about Collingwood and Pies supporters have since taken offence to it. The reality is it was about the football world and even more broadly societies' willingness to use skin color as a reason to abuse someone. St Kilda supporters were the same, so was every other clubs supporters. The imagery of this really had nothing to do with Pies supporters.

 

[Grrr]

From the AG this morning: (I left their names off)

When Jon Pierik wrote his article about Don Scott, Sam Newman and Mike Sheahan suggesting Nicky Winmar was not making a statement about racism, I could not believe it ("AFL identities 'rewrite history' on Winmar", Sport, 27/6).
My brother and I were statisticians for St Kilda at that time and were situated up in the stands at Collingwood. The constant and vicious racism from the crowd all over the ground was sickening. It went on all day; my brother and I were abused as well because we were in a team with Indigenous players in it. We feared for our safety that day.
Nicky Winmar was pointing at his skin and sending a courageous message to the crowd and the footy world. We all know Newman's on a different planet. Scott and Sheahan must have been at a different ground.


As a St Kilda supporter in the Collingwood members' area on that wonderful Saturday in 1993, when the Saints beat the Pies rather well, several things were noticeable.
Firstly as Nicky Winmar started to get on top of his opponent, he was consistently booed every time he came near the ball, by the Collingwood members; it didn't happen to other St Kilda players beating their opponents.

As a Jew, I've become more than aware of racial nuances, and what was happening to Winmar was unquestionably racist, particularly some of the unsavoury comments from the crowd. It made you uncomfortable, and to speak out was to endanger oneself.
When he kicked a goal late in the game at the members' end, and then turned and raised his jumper to point at his skin, in an attempt to silence the crowd, it just inflamed them.
If his case against Scott, Newman and Sheahan goes to law, I'd advise them to settle beforehand. There are too many St Kilda supporters to bear accurate witness against them.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I think this revisionism is just some old white guys' reaction to BLM and an opportunity to tear down one Australia's iconic images on the matter.

My opinion...

Scott is such a meathead footy guy that I think he genuinely believes that winning a game of footy would be more important than caring about racial abuse.

Newman just has fallen for the Fox News/Herald-Sun/3AW narrative that Lefties are trying to take all your stuff and take over the world, and now just lets his hatred of anything remotely Left take over and dictate his thinking and response to everything.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

My question would be, if he was saying "Gutsy win" why lift up the jumper? You could just point to your gut area.

I think this revisionism is just some old white guys' reaction to BLM and an opportunity to tear down one Australia's iconic images on the matter.

I think the one unfortunate thing about this photo is that it also became about Collingwood and Pies supporters have since taken offence to it. The reality is it was about the football world and even more broadly societies' willingness to use skin color as a reason to abuse someone. St Kilda supporters were the same, so was every other clubs supporters. The imagery of this really had nothing to do with Pies supporters.

I went to Victoria park heaps of times as a kid.

But the worst racial abuse I ever personnally witnessed at the football was (in order):
4) St Kilda supporters at the MCG racially abusing Koutafides, Silvagni and any other Carlton player with a non-Aussie surname. It was foul.
3) North Melbourne supporters racially abusing St Kilda indigenous players at Moorabbin.
2) Fans of both Melbourne and St Kilda racially abusing umpire Glenn James at the MCG one day when I was about 6. Still remember it.

But number 1 was Sydney fans racially abusing Gwilt and Clarke from St Kilda in the 05 Prelim at the MCG. It was utterly appalling and still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Pretty much stopped me from going to the footy from that point. Repugnant.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Two things

1 - without being there - all we have to go on is the photo. To me it clearly looks like he is talking about his skin colour. I just don't think you'd do that to say we had guts. If someone had a crack at me all day (and all career) about it - i'd probably be less gracious about it.

2 - blokes are allowed to have an opinion. It's a recollection. the facist shutdown of anyone with an opinion is a major problem in society.

 

[Grrr]

Two things

1 - without being there - all we have to go on is the photo. To me it clearly looks like he is talking about his skin colour. I just don't think you'd do that to say we had guts. If someone had a crack at me all day (and all career) about it - i'd probably be less gracious about it.

2 - blokes are allowed to have an opinion. It's a recollection. the facist shutdown of anyone with an opinion is a major problem in society.

2 - But it isn't a fascist shut down. It is Nicky Winmar upset that he is being told by what someone who has previously pilloried him that he is making things up. It is Winmar who has threatened legal action not a bunch of lefties.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Two things

1 - without being there - all we have to go on is the photo.

?

The guys that were there have told us what happened.

 

[Ron The Bear]

We feared for our safety that day.

Was pretty standard for Vic Park when Collingwood was losing.

Started going to games without the old man when I was 12. Vic Park was the one place I couldn't go by myself. "They'll kill you for wearing the wrong jumper" was the explanation.

 

[Occidental]

From the AG this morning: (I left their names off)

When Jon Pierik wrote his article about Don Scott, Sam Newman and Mike Sheahan suggesting Nicky Winmar was not making a statement about racism, I could not believe it ("AFL identities 'rewrite history' on Winmar", Sport, 27/6).
My brother and I were statisticians for St Kilda at that time and were situated up in the stands at Collingwood. The constant and vicious racism from the crowd all over the ground was sickening. It went on all day; my brother and I were abused as well because we were in a team with Indigenous players in it. We feared for our safety that day.
Nicky Winmar was pointing at his skin and sending a courageous message to the crowd and the footy world. We all know Newman's on a different planet. Scott and Sheahan must have been at a different ground.


As a St Kilda supporter in the Collingwood members' area on that wonderful Saturday in 1993, when the Saints beat the Pies rather well, several things were noticeable.
Firstly as Nicky Winmar started to get on top of his opponent, he was consistently booed every time he came near the ball, by the Collingwood members; it didn't happen to other St Kilda players beating their opponents.

As a Jew, I've become more than aware of racial nuances, and what was happening to Winmar was unquestionably racist, particularly some of the unsavoury comments from the crowd. It made you uncomfortable, and to speak out was to endanger oneself.
When he kicked a goal late in the game at the members' end, and then turned and raised his jumper to point at his skin, in an attempt to silence the crowd, it just inflamed them.
If his case against Scott, Newman and Sheahan goes to law, I'd advise them to settle beforehand. There are too many St Kilda supporters to bear accurate witness against them.

More rubbish written years later that is completely inaccurate. What’s written by this “accurate witness”...
“He kicked a goal late in the game at the members end and then turned and raised his jumper to point at his skin in an attempt to silence the crowd, it just inflamed them”
Garbage. He did the jumper point at his skin AFTER the game had finished. That’s why it’s not on TV, it was NOT part of the play. This “witness” has no idea.
Plus this “witness” reckons Winmar tried to silence the crowd with his gesture. Really??
Good on Winmar he played well and was copping abuse - so he stood in front of the Sherrin stand and did quite a few things to RILE the Pies fans... NOT silence them. This “witness” to events seriously witnessed nothing.
Here’s Nicky - including pointing his bum at the cheer squad.
He was silencing the crowd.. what a joke!

More silencing of the crowd action


Why do I bother...
To point out the lies people constantly go on about. Some of these “witnesses” are fake and do not do justice to the day or the events that transpired. People with an agenda write 25 years after an event a bunch of fabrications and it’s treated as the truth.
Truth is Winmar stood at CHF and did quite a few things after the game. I wish all the photos would get published, they would be really interesting.
By the way, good on Winmar for doing all those things after the game to fire up the crowd, he played well, his side won & he was racially abused.
But no more lies please.

 

[Grrr]

More rubbish written years later that is completely inaccurate. What’s written by this “accurate witness”...
“He kicked a goal late in the game at the members end and then turned and raised his jumper to point at his skin in an attempt to silence the crowd, it just inflamed them”
Garbage. He did the jumper point at his skin AFTER the game had finished. That’s why it’s not on TV, it was NOT part of the play. This “witness” has no idea.
Plus this “witness” reckons Winmar tried to silence the crowd with his gesture. Really??
Good on Winmar he played well and was copping abuse - so he stood in front of the Sherrin stand and did quite a few things to RILE the Pies fans... NOT silence them. This “witness” to events seriously witnessed nothing.
Here’s Nicky - including pointing his bum at the cheer squad.
He was silencing the crowd.. what a joke!
View attachment 902386
More silencing of the crowd action
View attachment 902387

Why do I bother...
To point out the lies people constantly go on about. Some of these “witnesses” are fake and do not do justice to the day or the events that transpired.
By the way, good on Winmar for firing up the crowd, he played well, his side won & he was racially abused.
But no more lies please.

So these accounts are out and out lies because someone remembers an incident slightly differently, i.e after a goal or after the game 30 years later. Wasn't the goal kicked late in the game. So that point mitigates the two peoples testimonies. That point makes them liars. Good for you. Perhaps as you say Winmar had had a gut full, not just that day but for years that he played the game. So he incited some comments after the game, does that excuse people.

 

[Occidental]

So these accounts are out and out lies because someone remembers an incident slightly differently, i.e after a goal or after the game 30 years later. Wasn't the goal kicked late in the game. So that point mitigates the two peoples testimonies. That point makes them liars. Good for you. Perhaps as you say Winmar had had a gut full, not just that day but for years that he played the game. So he incited some comments after the game, does that excuse people.

You publish falsehoods, you leave yourself open to correction.
Imagine that “witness” testifying if it does go to court?
The witness testimony is garbage, so why publish it?
Do at least some modicum of fact checking.
These incorrect reminiscences are not worth publishing or quoting. They do no one any good because they are wrong.

 

[Grrr]

You publish falsehoods, you leave yourself open to correction.
Imagine that “witness” testifying if it does go to court?
The witness testimony is garbage, so why publish it?
Do at least some modicum of fact checking.
These incorrect reminiscences are not worth publishing or quoting. They do no one any good because they are wrong.

You'd have to be joking. It's a lie because the author after 27 years forgets whether the stand was at the end of the last quarter or after the quarter. Forget that McAdams father left the ground in tears because he no longer could listen to the crowd. Forget the testimonies of Winmar and McAdam and no doubt some of his team mates if it went to court. It's a pack of lies because the recollection of someone remembers one small part of the incident incorrectly.

Vic Park and Windy Hill were the most hostile places to watch football I can remember. And I remember very well indigenous players being abuse all over the grounds of Melbourne at that time.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

2 - But it isn't a fascist shut down. It is Nicky Winmar upset that he is being told by what someone who has previously pilloried him that he is making things up. It is Winmar who has threatened legal action not a bunch of lefties.

Valid point made

Albeit the public commentary is a little different