News NMFC & Tassie (the mass debate re our future there, the academy, attending advice)

gokangas

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It's quite amazing how you managed to progress these thoughts in order to achieve your desire for pessimism.
Ummmmmm - ok. This bloke is driving an AFL agenda. Watch the chatter start again - North to tassie! We can never rest. Interesting to note Ron Josephs comments this week saying that he believes there are some who are working on this. Pessimism? Call it what you like - but this push for more of us in Tassie will start again and relocation will be in the discussion. If the Tassie deal does finish end of next year I just hope the club has a plan B in terms of income. I don't trust the AFL and I am always wary of some of our club folk.
 

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Snake_Baker

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Ummmmmm - ok. This bloke is driving an AFL agenda. Watch the chatter start again - North to tassie! We can never rest. Interesting to note Ron Josephs comments this week saying that he believes there are some who are working on this. Pessimism? Call it what you like - but this push for more of us in Tassie will start again and relocation will be in the discussion. If the Tassie deal does finish end of next year I just hope the club has a plan B in terms of income. I don't trust the AFL and I am always wary of some of our club folk.
You love this stuff gk.

If it doesn't exist, you just invent it.
 

giantroo

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AUGUST 30 2019 - 2:30AM
Tasmanian AFL team: Getting the economics right



Business leaders remain cautious about the AFL bid until more details are released by the taskforce.

Business leaders remain cautious about the AFL bid until more details are released by the taskforce.

The failure of Tasmania's last AFL bid in 2008 still weighs on the mind of economist Saul Eslake.
He was on that taskforce when it received a lukewarm response from then-AFL chief executive officer Andrew Demitriou.



Yet with current AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan more sympathetic to the cause, and with a taskforce mixed with both business-minded and AFL-experienced individuals, Mr Eslake was confident of a different outcome this time around.


"The taskforce is doing a very good job, building a very strong case," he said.

"The last bid failed because of the AFL's prejudice. This time, McLachlan is not hostile, nor is he an enthusiastic proponent."

With the taskforce still developing its case, there remained a range of unknowns around the ongoing cost of a team, infrastructure requirements, government funding, sponsorship, membership and the location of home games.

Tasmanian economist Saul Eslake says the latest bid for a Tasmanian AFL team appears to be making good progress.

Tasmanian economist Saul Eslake says the latest bid for a Tasmanian AFL team appears to be making good progress.

Mr Eslake estimated the annual cost at $35 million - almost double the cost when the 2008 bid was put together.

Yet the sponsorship market appears to have broadened since then, including Collingwood attracting international brand Emirates as its main sponsor, while other clubs secure multinational corporations.

TV rights and government funding could also make up the difference.

Mr Eslake said the Tasmanian team would be an attractive prospect for national and international corporations, but there were no Tasmanian companies large enough to be the main sponsor.

"There doesn't have to be a Tasmanian company as the main sponsor. These days, major sponsors don't necessarily come from the club's traditional home," he said.

"Adelaide had its major sponsor as Toyota for many years - they never had a manufacturing plant in Adelaide."

Business leaders: Get the fundamentals right first
While appreciating the economic benefits of having a team based in Tasmania, local business leaders remained cautious about the bid until all of the finer details had been released.

Tasmanian Chamber of Commerce and Industry chief executive officer Michael Bailey said the team needed to avoid diverting sponsorship money from other areas, such as grassroots sport and the arts.

"For it to work in Tasmania, we need to nut out how we're physically going to pay for it," he said.
"What we don't want is to drag so many local sponsors out of other areas that they already sponsor.

"We know how popular Tasmania is globally, so it won't be too hard to find an international brand.
TCCI chief executive officer Michael Bailey believes a Tasmanian AFL team would not have much trouble finding a major sponsor - but ongoing costs could be a concern.

TCCI chief executive officer Michael Bailey believes a Tasmanian AFL team would not have much trouble finding a major sponsor - but ongoing costs could be a concern.

"As far as the benefits, there's no doubt at all it'd be beneficial to the state. It's estimated that Hawthorn's matches in Launceston bring in $30 million to the Launceston economy."

The annual cost of running the Sydney Swans was put at close to $50 million, while Hawthorn was just above that. A club like North Melbourne hires close to 400 staff.

The Launceston Chamber of Commerce wanted to see details of how costs like these could be covered before committing to supporting the bid.
Executive officer Neil Grose said there was still a lot of work to do before the case could progress.

"It's important to understand that you need to find that level of money every year for 20 years, not just for one or two," he said.

"The link between local football and the AFL is also quite disjointed at the moment, so that's another aspect that needs to be addressed.

"We're keen to see how this will all pull together."

Business groups agree: Launceston is best location
Both the TCCI and LCC believed Launceston was the best location for the permanent base of a Tasmanian AFL team.

The model from former premier Jim Bacon - with football based in the state's north, cricket based in the south - remained the preferred option for business leaders.

Mr Bailey said the club needed one home for it to be successful on the field.

"Launceston is central, it's extraordinarily passionate about sport, and it's a place that will get more supporters from the North-West coast than a Hobart-based team," he said.

"One of the things we know is that a team needs a home. It needs a real stomping ground. Geelong is unbeatable at Kardinia Park - we want that to happen here.

"It needs to have a home, that home should be Launceston."

Mr Grose agreed, and said resources would be better used at one location.

"The best facilities for football would be in one location, not two," he said.

"We need one centre for football: Launceston. The games should be played there, we have a great stadium, it's very close to the CBD, it's walking distance to accommodation, and we get the crowds."

Council and Hawthorn to wait on taskforce findings
The City of Launceston is watching the taskforce "with interest", but believed AFL would remain at UTAS Stadium regardless of its findings.
Mayor Albert van Zetten said the stadium had a role to play into the future.

"UTAS Stadium should clearly have a large role to play in the future of AFL in Tasmania, given its central location, the exceptional standard of the ground, and the high crowd numbers it is consistently able to attract," he said.

Hawthorn Football Club was also keeping a keen eye on proceedings, with club president Jeff Kennett meeting with the taskforce on a number of occasions.

In a letter to members, Mr Kennett said the club would respect the findings of the taskforce.

"It is Hawthorn's desire to remain in Tasmania but if the powers that be, the Tasmanian Government and the AFL, want to establish and fund a Tasmanian team we will respect that decision," he wrote.

"We will make no decision until the taskforce's report is handed down and released publicly."
 

Snake_Baker

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"The last bid failed because of the AFL's prejudice.
LOL

How much is this scumbag playing them for?
"For it to work in Tasmania, we need to nut out how we're physically going to pay for it,"
NO KIDDING!


Mr Eslake estimated the annual cost at $35 million - almost double the cost when the 2008 bid was put together.
LOL!

Yet the sponsorship market appears to have broadened since then, including Collingwood attracting international brand Emirates as its main sponsor, while other clubs secure multinational corporations.
Did he just compare a Tasmanian AFL team with Collingwood?
TV rights and government funding could also make up the difference.
COULD!

In other words, HE DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY!

...........there were no Tasmanian companies large enough to be the main sponsor.
There's ANOTHER hurdle.
"There doesn't have to be a Tasmanian company as the main sponsor. These days, major sponsors don't necessarily come from the club's traditional home," he said.

"Adelaide had its major sponsor as Toyota for many years - they never had a manufacturing plant in Adelaide."
Did he just compare a Tasmanian AFL team with the Adelaide Crows?
The annual cost of running the Sydney Swans was put at close to $50 million,
NOT $35 million!

while Hawthorn was just above that.
NOT $35 million!

A club like North Melbourne hires close to 400 staff.
You can kiss that goodbye!
The Launceston Chamber of Commerce wanted to see details of how costs like these could be covered before committing to supporting the bid.
Executive officer Neil Grose said there was still a lot of work to do before the case could progress.

"It's important to understand that you need to find that level of money every year for 20 years, not just for one or two," he said.
BIN-GO!
Business groups agree: Launceston is best location

Both the TCCI and LCC believed Launceston was the best location for the permanent base of a Tasmanian AFL team.

The model from former premier Jim Bacon - with football based in the state's north, cricket based in the south - remained the preferred option for business leaders.

Mr Bailey said the club needed one home for it to be successful on the field.

"Launceston is central, it's extraordinarily passionate about sport, and it's a place that will get more supporters from the North-West coast than a Hobart-based team," he said.

"One of the things we know is that a team needs a home. It needs a real stomping ground. Geelong is unbeatable at Kardinia Park - we want that to happen here.

"It needs to have a home, that home should be Launceston."

Mr Grose agreed, and said resources would be better used at one location.

"The best facilities for football would be in one location, not two," he said.

"We need one centre for football: Launceston. The games should be played there, we have a great stadium, it's very close to the CBD, it's walking distance to accommodation, and we get the crowds."
LOL

The North-South shit fight has already begun before they have drawn up a decent proposal!!!!

"It is Hawthorn's desire to remain in Tasmania but if the powers that be, the Tasmanian Government and the AFL, want to establish and fund a Tasmanian team we will respect that decision," he wrote.
Kennett is politicking this magnificently for Hawthorn's interests. He's feeding the divide!
 
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Snake_Baker

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They are literally storming the barricades in Tasmania!!!!!

Organisers of the campaign for a Tasmanian AFL/AFLW team will hope their much-publicised official launch is a slow burn.

The United We Stand website was opened on Friday morning, with the backing of Tasmanian Premier Will Hodgman and media outlets across the state.

The campaign aims for 50,000 pledges, but by 5.30pm (AEST) the website was reporting less than 3000.

 

ferball

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With all due respect, I'm just not that convinced you're the economic guru you make out to be. Not only have you not seen the financial model, I'm pretty sure you'd reject it as being biased even if it declared it feasible.

You're biased. So am I, of course; I have a lot to gain from a Tasmanian team. The difference is that I'm awaiting the full analysis with hope, whereas it seems that you won't accept a reality that doesn't confirm your bias.

I'm not sure we can take this convo any further.
He's right about the "priming" tho. That's exactly what it is. Tassie can have a team in a decade. After Tarryn has won multiple Norm Smiths and Brownlow's with us.
 

giantroo

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Eade says Tassie team can work...on one condition

Tasmanian footy great Rodney Eade says an AFL team in the Apple Isle will only flourish if the state's "north-south divide" can be solved.

After the recent launch of a campaign to bring an AFL and AFLW team to Tasmania, Eade said he felt the issue would be the only sticking point for a side based in his home state.

The former Sydney, Western Bulldogs Gold Coast coach said he was confident a team could be sustained financially, but the north-south divide was a problem Tasmanians have "got to get over".

"I think the biggest issue is the north-south divide," Eade said on RSN.

"If Tassie can work on that themselves, and they have got to get over that, if they can do that I can’t see a reason why they can’t be in."
Both Hobart and Tasmania have hosted AFL games through partnerships with Hawthorn and North Melbourne.
“People from Launceston won’t travel to Hobart," Eade said.

"They just won’t go. Some people haven’t even been there.

"That’s how strong the angst is, the north v south. Hopefully they can overcome that."

Eade said the AFL needed to do more than provide priority picks to his former club Gold Coast, which lost 18 consecutive matches after a 3-1 start to 2019.
 

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King Corey

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Eade says Tassie team can work...on one condition

Tasmanian footy great Rodney Eade says an AFL team in the Apple Isle will only flourish if the state's "north-south divide" can be solved.

After the recent launch of a campaign to bring an AFL and AFLW team to Tasmania, Eade said he felt the issue would be the only sticking point for a side based in his home state.

The former Sydney, Western Bulldogs Gold Coast coach said he was confident a team could be sustained financially, but the north-south divide was a problem Tasmanians have "got to get over".

"I think the biggest issue is the north-south divide," Eade said on RSN.

"If Tassie can work on that themselves, and they have got to get over that, if they can do that I can’t see a reason why they can’t be in."
Both Hobart and Tasmania have hosted AFL games through partnerships with Hawthorn and North Melbourne.
“People from Launceston won’t travel to Hobart," Eade said.

"They just won’t go. Some people haven’t even been there.

"That’s how strong the angst is, the north v south. Hopefully they can overcome that."

Eade said the AFL needed to do more than provide priority picks to his former club Gold Coast, which lost 18 consecutive matches after a 3-1 start to 2019.
One way it would work would be for the north-south factions to agree to play home games on neutral ground.

Like, say, in Melbourne.
 

Go_Roos!

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Over and over , business case! And don't use the same people who did it for the Hobart Huskies in basketball, said they would be self supporting and would thrive - bankrupt and GONE about 6mnths later.
 

Engimal v3

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Eade says Tassie team can work...on one condition

Tasmanian footy great Rodney Eade says an AFL team in the Apple Isle will only flourish if the state's "north-south divide" can be solved.

After the recent launch of a campaign to bring an AFL and AFLW team to Tasmania, Eade said he felt the issue would be the only sticking point for a side based in his home state.

The former Sydney, Western Bulldogs Gold Coast coach said he was confident a team could be sustained financially, but the north-south divide was a problem Tasmanians have "got to get over".

"I think the biggest issue is the north-south divide," Eade said on RSN.

"If Tassie can work on that themselves, and they have got to get over that, if they can do that I can’t see a reason why they can’t be in."
Both Hobart and Tasmania have hosted AFL games through partnerships with Hawthorn and North Melbourne.
“People from Launceston won’t travel to Hobart," Eade said.

"They just won’t go. Some people haven’t even been there.

"That’s how strong the angst is, the north v south. Hopefully they can overcome that."

Eade said the AFL needed to do more than provide priority picks to his former club Gold Coast, which lost 18 consecutive matches after a 3-1 start to 2019.
Haha, "north-south divide". That shows how long since Eade has actually lived in Tasmania. Ask anyone under the age of 30 about it, and they won't have a clue (other than the beer).
 

Sideburns Ahern

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Haha, "north-south divide". That shows how long since Eade has actually lived in Tasmania. Ask anyone under the age of 30 about it, and they won't have a clue (other than the beer).
Whether there is any sense of angst among the Under 30s in Tasmania, and whether there is a north-south divide in that sense, one thing that is incontrovertible is this - anyone pushing the line that Hobart gets cricket and Launceston gets football should be drop kicked out of the conversation. For an AFL team to survive, they would have to play home games in both cities.
 

Tas

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Tasmanian AFL team: Getting the economics right

Business leaders remain cautious about the AFL bid until more details are released by the taskforce.

The failure of Tasmania's last AFL bid in 2008 still weighs on the mind of economist Saul Eslake.
He was on that taskforce when it received a lukewarm response from then-AFL chief executive officer Andrew Demitriou.

Yet with current AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan more sympathetic to the cause, and with a taskforce mixed with both business-minded and AFL-experienced individuals, Mr Eslake was confident of a different outcome this time around.

"The taskforce is doing a very good job, building a very strong case," he said.

"The last bid failed because of the AFL's prejudice. This time, McLachlan is not hostile, nor is he an enthusiastic proponent."

With the taskforce still developing its case, there remained a range of unknowns around the ongoing cost of a team, infrastructure requirements, government funding, sponsorship, membership and the location of home games.
I don't think AD was hostile, he didn't believe for a second that people who wouldn't commit to long-term financing and sponsorship arrangements would carry through and the AFL would be left holding the baby. Given the Hobart business community were as quick to pull out as a premature ejaculator without a condom with our arrangement I think AD was pretty much spot on, people are keen for short-term commitments to get the AFL there so it can facilitate their own interests but nobody is interested in funding it.

Tasmanian economist Saul Eslake says the latest bid for a Tasmanian AFL team appears to be making good progress.

Mr Eslake estimated the annual cost at $35 million - almost double the cost when the 2008 bid was put together.

Yet the sponsorship market appears to have broadened since then, including Collingwood attracting international brand Emirates as its main sponsor, while other clubs secure multinational corporations.

TV rights and government funding could also make up the difference.
This is the crux of the problem, for an economist he either doesn't know shit about ratings or television advertising or is deliberately playing stupid. Emirates doesn't give a shit about AFL or Collingwood. Sponsorship buys them advertising space on national television among other minor perks but it is largely about advertising. Collingwood demand a lot more money from their sponsors because they know AFL scheduling is a rort and they get preferential free to air coverage. Primarily it is the Friday night and blockbuster time slots that generate a significant chunk of the lucrative free to air ratings.

Ratings determine how much televisions charge for advertising space, this largely drives the extent of our broadcasting revenue the AFL receives from broadcasters but also determines how valuable the access is to various markets. Nielsen collect and provide audience numbers for other ratings agencies, the primary rating which is used to determine the value of advertising and how well programs do is called the five metro ratings, this doesn't include Tasmania because their television ratings aren't significant for advertisers.

That doesn't mean Tasmania's ratings are valueless, they are captured by the Regional ratings indexes and have a much smaller viewer base and subsequently it is less valuable to advertisers. We already benefit from Tasmania's regional ratings without having any teams there, most people who watch AFL already have another team they follow.

When the AFL sought approval from the clubs to grant GC and GWS licences, it was on the basis that it was an investment in time and the two teams would give the AFL a much larger broadcasting share of NSW and QLD, there are a lot of people who do not watch AFL there. Tasmania doesn't have the same kind of appeal because it's market isn't significant nor is it expected to grow substantially over time. They already capture a large part of it without their own team.

The AFL was able to save a lot of money by utilising digital television and move the clubs in NSW and QLD off of the primary channel to the 7mate secondary channel, this channel has about 3% market share compared to about 16% from 7's primary channel, the largest in Australia currently. This enabled us to get a lot more for our broadcasting revenue as it cost us a fortune to subsidise the northern state clubs running on the more expensive channel, however, it has made their viewership less valuable. Last time we were given a decent draw, we had more viewers in Melbourne than all four northern clubs had in their home city combined and many of our games weren't free to air while all their games were free to air.

You simply can't put the same value on different markets. The Melbourne market is significant, the appeal to a lot of corporations that would be willing to invest in a Tasmanian team would be the access they receive to Melbourne and nationally, not local saturation. if Swans/GWS ever get back on 7's primary channel again in Sydney, that market would be equally valuable, at present it is about 1/5th the value, the advertising space on 7mate is significantly less valuable.

Northern club investment has largely been an investment for the future. Tasmania would need to highlight it has a future. Existing clubs are not going to approve of a plan to dilute their dwindling share of the broadcasting revenue for a new team that has no hope of contributing significantly more to the broadcasting value, either short-term or long-term.

Mr Eslake said the Tasmanian team would be an attractive prospect for national and international corporations, but there were no Tasmanian companies large enough to be the main sponsor.

"There doesn't have to be a Tasmanian company as the main sponsor. These days, major sponsors don't necessarily come from the club's traditional home," he said.

"Adelaide had its major sponsor as Toyota for many years - they never had a manufacturing plant in Adelaide."
It is all about advertising. Adelaide is far less valuable as an advertising market but it is a lot more lucrative than Tasmania. Despite the Crows strong crowds, strong membership base and solid ratings they do not make a fortune, the SANFL licence cost is a significant burden to them and they generate a lot more revenue than a Tasmanian team would hope to. It isn't easy finding money. West Coast make a fortune because they charge their members a fortune for memberships, even charge them to wait in a queue for a membership.

Tasmania would appeal to an advertiser seeking a sponsorship arrangement, not so much for the advertising in Tasmania though. Cadbury sponsors Cricket Tasmania and the big bash team, they are one of the major companies in Tasmania and last time this charade went around said they would sponsor an AFL team, however, if people think they are going to pay what Collingwood get from Emirates then they are delusional. At that point they would be asking for charity rather than sponsorship, similar to this request for Branson to sponsor a new Tasmanian team... https://www.examiner.com.au/story/6341727/sir-richard-branson-should-sponsor-tassie-afl-team-inquiry-told/

Business leaders: Get the fundamentals right first
While appreciating the economic benefits of having a team based in Tasmania, local business leaders remained cautious about the bid until all of the finer details had been released.

Tasmanian Chamber of Commerce and Industry chief executive officer Michael Bailey said the team needed to avoid diverting sponsorship money from other areas, such as grassroots sport and the arts.

"For it to work in Tasmania, we need to nut out how we're physically going to pay for it," he said.
"What we don't want is to drag so many local sponsors out of other areas that they already sponsor.

"We know how popular Tasmania is globally, so it won't be too hard to find an international brand.

TCCI chief executive officer Michael Bailey believes a Tasmanian AFL team would not have much trouble finding a major sponsor - but ongoing costs could be a concern.

"As far as the benefits, there's no doubt at all it'd be beneficial to the state. It's estimated that Hawthorn's matches in Launceston bring in $30 million to the Launceston economy."

The annual cost of running the Sydney Swans was put at close to $50 million, while Hawthorn was just above that. A club like North Melbourne hires close to 400 staff.

The Launceston Chamber of Commerce wanted to see details of how costs like these could be covered before committing to supporting the bid.
Executive officer Neil Grose said there was still a lot of work to do before the case could progress.

"It's important to understand that you need to find that level of money every year for 20 years, not just for one or two," he said.

"The link between local football and the AFL is also quite disjointed at the moment, so that's another aspect that needs to be addressed.

"We're keen to see how this will all pull together."
This guy sounds sane, not sure how he got involved with this crazy train.

In that hilarious Richard Branson to sponsor Tasmanian team article there was an interesting survey done in Launceston where only 30% of members of other clubs would become a member of a Tasmanian AFL team. To me this is quite shocking. I'm not sure how many Tasmanian members there exist in total, but they would want to get more than 30% of passionate football people in Tasmania on board.

Of course the team will find a major sponsor, my brother's little league team has a major sponsor, it just isn't going to be remotely lucrative as most other football club sponsorship deals unless there is a significant charity element to it.

Even GC have a sponsor, they are getting about $1m a year from their major sponsor after Fiat gave them the flick. Not sure what they are getting from HostPlus but I am sure the AFL has some shonky plans to prop them up https://www.afr.com/companies/sport/the-afl-propped-up-gold-coast-suns-with-25m-after-sponsorship-woes-20180201-h0s15t

Business groups agree: Launceston is best location
Both the TCCI and LCC believed Launceston was the best location for the permanent base of a Tasmanian AFL team.

The model from former premier Jim Bacon - with football based in the state's north, cricket based in the south - remained the preferred option for business leaders.

Mr Bailey said the club needed one home for it to be successful on the field.

"Launceston is central, it's extraordinarily passionate about sport, and it's a place that will get more supporters from the North-West coast than a Hobart-based team," he said.

"One of the things we know is that a team needs a home. It needs a real stomping ground. Geelong is unbeatable at Kardinia Park - we want that to happen here.

"It needs to have a home, that home should be Launceston."

Mr Grose agreed, and said resources would be better used at one location.

"The best facilities for football would be in one location, not two," he said.

"We need one centre for football: Launceston. The games should be played there, we have a great stadium, it's very close to the CBD, it's walking distance to accommodation, and we get the crowds."
It is a pity Launceston only has a population of around 85k people. Hobart has around 240k which makes it closer to Geelong in terms of population, but Geelong also feed off a much larger pool of people around them. Tasmania has to be able to do a lot more to get more of it's 530k people to attend games, they need to create the scenario where demand significantly outpaces supply. AFL isn't going to believe the crowds will come when you often can't get 10k to a game. People say more would show up if it was a Tasmanian team, the Launceston survey doesn't support that hypothesis. If Tasmanian people want a team they need a consistent show of people power that they want it and will be prepared to pay for it.

If Tasmania can build a 30k seat stadium, with corporate boxes suited for smaller corporations, and can charge Geelong or West Coast like membership costs then they can fund it themselves. The only way the people can express that is to pack out the Hawks and North games and use it as platform to demand your own team. Wear Tasmanian colours instead of the teams showing up to differentiate. Make rallies before and after games. Show that you want it. A handful of people in the media can't do it.

Council and Hawthorn to wait on taskforce findings
The City of Launceston is watching the taskforce "with interest", but believed AFL would remain at UTAS Stadium regardless of its findings.
Mayor Albert van Zetten said the stadium had a role to play into the future.

"UTAS Stadium should clearly have a large role to play in the future of AFL in Tasmania, given its central location, the exceptional standard of the ground, and the high crowd numbers it is consistently able to attract," he said.

Hawthorn Football Club was also keeping a keen eye on proceedings, with club president Jeff Kennett meeting with the taskforce on a number of occasions.

In a letter to members, Mr Kennett said the club would respect the findings of the taskforce.

"It is Hawthorn's desire to remain in Tasmania but if the powers that be, the Tasmanian Government and the AFL, want to establish and fund a Tasmanian team we will respect that decision," he wrote.

"We will make no decision until the taskforce's report is handed down and released publicly."
I think Kennett's use of his words was very considered, "if the powers that be, the Tasmanian Government and the AFL, want to establish and fund a Tasmanian team"

I think everyone is keen for someone else to pay for it, this whole charade is short of people reaching for their own wallet. Kennett wants to see where the money is coming from because what they pay to host games is something that can easily be terminated in a short space of time, a commitment to fund their own football club is long term and will be politically divisive.
 
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Mr Taswegian

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I don't think AD was hostile, he didn't believe for a second that people who wouldn't commit to long-term financing and sponsorship arrangements would carry through and the AFL would be left holding the baby. Given the Hobart business community were as quick to pull out as a premature ejaculator without a condom with our arrangement I think AD was pretty much spot on, people are keen for short-term commitments to get the AFL there so it can facilitate their own interests but nobody is interested in funding it.



This is the crux of the problem, for an economist he either doesn't know s**t about ratings or television advertising or is deliberately playing stupid. Emirates doesn't give a s**t about AFL or Collingwood. Sponsorship buys them advertising space on national television among other minor perks but it is largely about advertising. Collingwood demand a lot more money from their sponsors because they know AFL scheduling is a rort and they get preferential free to air coverage. Primarily it is the Friday night and blockbuster time slots that generate a significant chunk of the lucrative free to air ratings.

Ratings determine how much televisions charge for advertising space, this largely drives the extent of our broadcasting revenue the AFL receives from broadcasters but also determines how valuable the access is to various markets. Nielsen collect and provide audience numbers for other ratings agencies, the primary rating which is used to determine the value of advertising and how well programs do is called the five metro ratings, this doesn't include Tasmania because their television ratings aren't significant for advertisers.

That doesn't mean Tasmania's ratings are valueless, they are captured by the Regional ratings indexes and have a much smaller viewer base and subsequently it is less valuable to advertisers. We already benefit from Tasmania's regional ratings without having any teams there, most people who watch AFL already have another team they follow.

When the AFL sought approval from the clubs to grant GC and GWS licences, it was on the basis that it was an investment in time and the two teams would give the AFL a much larger broadcasting share of NSW and QLD, there are a lot of people who do not watch AFL there. Tasmania doesn't have the same kind of appeal because it's market isn't significant nor is it expected to grow substantially over time. They already capture a large part of it without their own team.

The AFL was able to save a lot of money by utilising digital television and move the clubs in NSW and QLD off of the primary channel to the 7mate secondary channel, this channel has about 3% market share compared to about 16% from 7's primary channel, the largest in Australia currently. This enabled us to get a lot more for our broadcasting revenue as it cost us a fortune to subsidise the northern state clubs running on the more expensive channel, however, it has made their viewership less valuable. Last time we were given a decent draw, we had more viewers in Melbourne than all four northern clubs had in their home city combined and many of our games weren't free to air while all their games were free to air.

You simply can't put the same value on different markets. The Melbourne market is significant, the appeal to a lot of corporations that would be willing to invest in a Tasmanian team would be the access they receive to Melbourne and nationally, not local saturation. if Swans/GWS ever get back on 7's primary channel again in Sydney, that market would be equally valuable, at present it is about 1/5th the value, the advertising space on 7mate is significantly less valuable.

Northern club investment has largely been an investment for the future. Tasmania would need to highlight it has a future. Existing clubs are not going to approve of a plan to dilute their dwindling share of the broadcasting revenue for a new team that has no hope of contributing significantly more to the broadcasting value, either short-term or long-term.



It is all about advertising. Adelaide is far less valuable as an advertising market but it is a lot more lucrative than Tasmania. Despite the Crows strong crowds, strong membership base and solid ratings they do not make a fortune, the SANFL licence cost is a significant burden to them and they generate a lot more revenue than a Tasmanian team would hope to. It isn't easy finding money. West Coast make a fortune because they charge their members a fortune for memberships, even charge them to wait in a queue for a membership.

Tasmania would appeal to an advertiser seeking a sponsorship arrangement, not so much for the advertising in Tasmania though. Cadbury sponsors Cricket Tasmania and the big bash team, they are one of the major companies in Tasmania and last time this charade went around said they would sponsor an AFL team, however, if people think they are going to pay what Collingwood get from Emirates then they are delusional. At that point they would be asking for charity rather than sponsorship, similar to this request for Branson to sponsor a new Tasmanian team... https://www.examiner.com.au/story/6341727/sir-richard-branson-should-sponsor-tassie-afl-team-inquiry-told/



This guy sounds sane, not sure how he got involved with this crazy train.

In that hilarious Richard Branson to sponsor Tasmanian team article there was an interesting survey done in Launceston where only 30% of members of other clubs would become a member of a Tasmanian AFL team. To me this is quite shocking. I'm not sure how many Tasmanian members there exist in total, but they would want to get more than 30% of passionate football people in Tasmania on board.

Of course the team will find a major sponsor, my brother's little league team has a major sponsor, it just isn't going to be remotely lucrative as most other football club sponsorship deals unless there is a significant charity element to it.

Even GC have a sponsor, they are getting about $1m a year from their major sponsor after Fiat gave them the flick. Not sure what they are getting from HostPlus but I am sure the AFL has some shonky plans to prop them up https://www.afr.com/companies/sport/the-afl-propped-up-gold-coast-suns-with-25m-after-sponsorship-woes-20180201-h0s15t



It is a pity Launceston only has a population of around 85k people. Hobart has around 240k which makes it closer to Geelong in terms of population, but Geelong also feed off a much larger pool of people around them. Tasmania has to be able to do a lot more to get more of it's 530k people to attend games, they need to create the scenario where demand significantly outpaces supply. AFL isn't going to believe the crowds will come when you often can't get 10k to a game. People say more would show up if it was a Tasmanian team, the Launceston survey doesn't support that hypothesis. If Tasmanian people want a team they need a consistent show of people power that they want it and will be prepared to pay for it.

If Tasmania can build a 30k seat stadium, with corporate boxes suited for smaller corporations, and can charge Geelong or West Coast like membership costs then they can fund it themselves. The only way the people can express that is to pack out the Hawks and North games and use it as platform to demand your own team. Wear Tasmanian colours instead of the teams showing up to differentiate. Make rallies before and after games. Show that you want it. A handful of people in the media can't do it.



I think Kennett's use of his words was very considered, "if the powers that be, the Tasmanian Government and the AFL, want to establish and fund a Tasmanian team"

I think everyone is keen for someone else to pay for it, this whole charade is short of people reaching for their own wallet. Kennett wants to see where the money is coming from because what they pay to host games is something that can easily be terminated in a short space of time, a commitment to fund their own football club is long term and will be politically divisive.
[/QUOTE]
It 20 nearly of AFL games in Tassie, only 5 games have had crowds under 10000,that is not often like you have stated.
 

Tas

Premium Gold
Dec 23, 2002
52,927
35,075
AFL Club
North Melbourne
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There can be only one...
It 20 nearly of AFL games in Tassie, only 5 games have had crowds under 10000,that is not often like you have stated.
A quarter of the games under 10k isn't good, many are around 10k as well which is about 50% capacity (at Bellerive) for a handful of games a year. Granted, you would get some higher drawing home games but I wouldn't be banking on hosting the bigger Victorian clubs too often.

I want Tasmania to have it's own team but there needs to be a sensible conversation about what kind of metrics need to be achieved for it to be sustainable.

Don't get me wrong, if North was playing exhibition games in Melbourne based on our current metrics we wouldn't get a license to play in Melbourne and it would be stupid to suggest we should based on the numbers we generate currently. Our saving grace was that we were in the VFL since 1925. We have our own hurdles to overcome as a football club if we are going to survive, fortunately, we hold on to one of the AFL's licences and they can't take it off us, if they could we would have been shipped off to the Gold Coast.

Tasmania just needs more of it's people to show interest, the corporate side isn't going to be enough. Tasmania will need a stadium of around 30k capacity and they will need to show demand far exceeds supply. Geelong could do it with a similar population base and it's members wore that they would have to pay a premium to access the games. If people want their own team, sacrifices will have to be made. We need to see less of what Tasmanians want others to pay and more of what they are willing to pay to make it happen. Otherwise I just don't think it is going to be enough.

Based on the current interest shown at the games played there, it isn't enough to suggest Tasmania can generate the numbers for it to work.
 

Engimal v3

Premium Gold
Sep 21, 2017
3,780
7,232
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Based on the current interest shown at the games played there, it isn't enough to suggest Tasmania can generate the numbers for it to work.
Yeah, if Tasmanians don't want to directly fund the exact opposite of what they want, they can't get what they want.














Wait.
 

Tas

Premium Gold
Dec 23, 2002
52,927
35,075
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
There can be only one...
Yeah, if Tasmanians don't want to directly fund the exact opposite of what they want, they can't get what they want.

Wait.
The current agreements with the government/TT-Line, AFL Tasmania and Cricket Tasmania are economic agreements, all those stakeholders get something out of it, if they didn't then we wouldn't be playing there. Those who support North or other clubs we play there get to see live games, they get something out of it too.

Then there is the majority of Tasmania who do not take any part of it, but want their own team. What platform do they have to achieve their goals? Bitching on forums isn't working. Academics whining on newspapers isn't working. High profile Tasmanians bitching on tv isn't working.

The current strategy just isn't working. I think the only short-term hope is for those who want their own team to make their presence felt and the most obvious way would be to go to the North and Hawks games and show there is a lot more interest in football than the crowds or the surveys suggest there is.
 

Mr Taswegian

Roo Man
May 25, 2019
221
75
AFL Club
North Melbourne
A quarter of the games under 10k isn't good, many are around 10k as well which is about 50% capacity (at Bellerive) for a handful of games a year. Granted, you would get some higher drawing home games but I wouldn't be banking on hosting the bigger Victorian clubs too often.

I want Tasmania to have it's own team but there needs to be a sensible conversation about what kind of metrics need to be achieved for it to be sustainable.

Don't get me wrong, if North was playing exhibition games in Melbourne based on our current metrics we wouldn't get a license to play in Melbourne and it would be stupid to suggest we should based on the numbers we generate currently. Our saving grace was that we were in the VFL since 1925. We have our own hurdles to overcome as a football club if we are going to survive, fortunately, we hold on to one of the AFL's licences and they can't take it off us, if they could we would have been shipped off to the Gold Coast.

Tasmania just needs more of it's people to show interest, the corporate side isn't going to be enough. Tasmania will need a stadium of around 30k capacity and they will need to show demand far exceeds supply. Geelong could do it with a similar population base and it's members wore that they would have to pay a premium to access the games. If people want their own team, sacrifices will have to be made. We need to see less of what Tasmanians want others to pay and more of what they are willing to pay to make it happen. Otherwise I just don't think it is going to be enough.

Based on the current interest shown at the games played there, it isn't enough to suggest Tasmania can generate the numbers for it to work.
It's not a quarter of games,5 games out of 20 years of games is not a quarter.
 

boncer34

Inaugural Steward
Jul 11, 2005
43,072
44,266
Baghdad
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Melbourne Storm
The current strategy just isn't working. I think the only short-term hope is for those who want their own team to make their presence felt and the most obvious way would be to go to the North and Hawks games and show there is a lot more interest in football than the crowds or the surveys suggest there is.
The only way to show people are disenfranchised with the current arrangement is to turn up and support it en mass.
 

Tas

Premium Gold
Dec 23, 2002
52,927
35,075
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
There can be only one...
It's not a quarter of games,5 games out of 20 years of games is not a quarter.
Sorry, thought you said 5 out of the last 20 games.

Regardless, there are a lot of games that barely creeped over 10k when the capacity is 19.5k in Hobart.

The state is going to need about 30k to show up for every home game and it is going to need demand well beyond that.
 

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