News NMFC & Tassie (the mass debate re our future there, the academy, attending advice)

[Passmore]

Perhaps the financial issues that the club experienced in 2007 and the resulting mindset of being frugal and concentrating on survival over on-field success is still deeply rooted at club level.

Life is about seasons, there’s a time to worry about the budget and there is times to spend resource to build an asset.

I suspect we should have been in build mode for some years now, 20+ years without a grand final appearance is no way to build your membership base.


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Hopefully now we’ve got ourselves basically debt free, we can put survival behind us to a degree and we can build.

 

[shintemaster]

Hopefully now we’ve got ourselves basically debt free, we can put survival behind us to a degree and we can build.

Snake's a big subscriber to the "win more games, win more members" theory of football and while I think there is a lot of truth in that I also fundamentally believe that there is more to it. I'd suggest it's more that winning more games harnesses or captures more of your exposed and latent supporter base but there is a hell of a lot more that can go into building that latent support in the meantime - so that when you do have that purple patch or strong generation you can harvest to the maximum. We talk about being a boutique club but little of what we do is boutique. If we want to be small, special and unique then we need to focus on that as a culture for members and actually do things that support making our game day and week to week experience unique and us. As it stands I don't think we're boutique - we're just small and looking for scraps at the big table. For mine, as a club, we need to quit stuffing around and get some very smart people around the table and ask ourselves, as a club that is playing a number of games in Melbourne that is barely equivalent to just the home games of some bigger clubs what we need to do to make that game experience a cultural, visceral, tribal exercise.

We are not and never will be the biggest, we need to make our supporters feel like going in and out of games it is them vs the world and they are proud to give the middle finger to the rest of the football world. I've written PHD essays on here before around membership benefits and won't dig into that again but I reckon there are a lot of simple things we can do to be smarter about engaging with this type of culture. The club should do things like advertising and encouraging North bays at away games in GA so that the fans cluster and are vocal and visible. Shoot a tweet out an hour before the game telling supporters in bay x to give a certain opponent a rev up and have agitators there to encourage that in friendly but s**t stirring way. I'd almost suggest it would be worth their while to actually pay the handful of outspoken, entertaining supporters / professionals to get out in crowds and encourage this atmosphere.

If they're going to allow sponsors to hand out plastic rubbish on the concourse they should target and use them to take the piss out of opposition teams rather than just state a team. Be innovative, be visible, be proud and do not take a backward step - everything they pride themselves on culturally at the club should be what they try to encourage in the crowd. If we continue to be a weakling Melbourne club playing barely half a season in Victoria without a strong defining culture then no amount of jagging a premiership every generation or so will save us in the long run.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Hopefully now we’ve got ourselves basically debt free, we can put survival behind us to a degree and we can build.

So no games in Hobart?

That's not the msging from Ben A.

(not saying you are wrong)

 

[Passmore]

So no games in Hobart?

That's not the msging from Ben A.

(not saying you are wrong)

I’m not anti-Hobart. Ideally you’d want 11 home games in Melbourne, but I get why we need to do it.

I’m more referring to investing in the football department.

 

[ChoppyGun]

I’m not anti-Hobart. Ideally you’d want 11 home games in Melbourne, but I get why we need to do it.

I’m more referring to investing in the football department.

Yeah that's fine (ignore I'm Tasmanian).

I'm more asking your opinion on what you'd do if in charge?

No right or wrong answer to me.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Snake's a big subscriber to the "win more games, win more members" theory of football and while I think there is a lot of truth in that I also fundamentally believe that there is more to it.

It's actually fundamentally wrong what Snake thinks.

The 90s proved that. It's vastly more complex.

Success can help sure but not for a small club like ours outside potentially enticing new supporters.

Can't tap into a huge supporter base that doesn't exist like Tigers have done.

 

[Devington]

It's actually fundamentally wrong what Snake thinks.

The 90s proved that. It's vastly more complex.

Success can help sure but not for a small club like ours outside potentially enticing new supporters.

Can't tap into a huge supporter base that doesn't exist like Tigers have done.

Success can more than 'help', but it's contingent on the off field side of things being done well and perhaps not having someone with the profile of Wayne Carey absolutely murdering the club's public image.

 

[shintemaster]

It's actually fundamentally wrong what Snake thinks.

The 90s proved that. It's vastly more complex.

Success might help but not for a small club like ours outside potentially enticing new supporters.

Can't tap into a huge supporter base that doesn't exist like Tigers have done.

It definitely helps. No doubt about that whatsoever. We didn't capitalise for various reasons on the 90's but make no mistake - we wouldn't even exist without them. I have zero doubt about that.

You are correct though that there is more to it.

For mine it comes back to being unique. We will never be the biggest. We apparently will never play as many games in Melbourne. We sure as s**t won't ever get the fixture gifts that other clubs do - we need to find something that we can do to make our experience amazing, unique and powerful. Relying on winning isn't enough because there will always be down times. We have to be smarter, tougher, quicker and a hell of a lot nastier than other teams. That crazy old bat from the pre VFL days who attacked an umpire with a brolly - that should be our mascot internally. If we insist on a Kangaroo we shouldn't be the cute one - we should be one that kicks the living s**t out of anyone that gets too close.

 

[Colbys Boots]

Snake's a big subscriber to the "win more games, win more members" theory of football and while I think there is a lot of truth in that I also fundamentally believe that there is more to it. I'd suggest it's more that winning more games harnesses or captures more of your exposed and latent supporter base but there is a hell of a lot more that can go into building that latent support in the meantime - so that when you do have that purple patch or strong generation you can harvest to the maximum. We talk about being a boutique club but little of what we do is boutique. If we want to be small, special and unique then we need to focus on that as a culture for members and actually do things that support making our game day and week to week experience unique and us. As it stands I don't think we're boutique - we're just small and looking for scraps at the big table. For mine, as a club, we need to quit stuffing around and get some very smart people around the table and ask ourselves, as a club that is playing a number of games in Melbourne that is barely equivalent to just the home games of some bigger clubs what we need to do to make that game experience a cultural, visceral, tribal exercise.

We are not and never will be the biggest, we need to make our supporters feel like going in and out of games it is them vs the world and they are proud to give the middle finger to the rest of the football world. I've written PHD essays on here before around membership benefits and won't dig into that again but I reckon there are a lot of simple things we can do to be smarter about engaging with this type of culture. The club should do things like advertising and encouraging North bays at away games in GA so that the fans cluster and are vocal and visible. Shoot a tweet out an hour before the game telling supporters in bay x to give a certain opponent a rev up and have agitators there to encourage that in friendly but sh*t stirring way. I'd almost suggest it would be worth their while to actually pay the handful of outspoken, entertaining supporters / professionals to get out in crowds and encourage this atmosphere.

If they're going to allow sponsors to hand out plastic rubbish on the concourse they should target and use them to take the piss out of opposition teams rather than just state a team. Be innovative, be visible, be proud and do not take a backward step - everything they pride themselves on culturally at the club should be what they try to encourage in the crowd. If we continue to be a weakling Melbourne club playing barely half a season in Victoria without a strong defining culture then no amount of jagging a premiership every generation or so will save us in the long run.

I appreciate your higher intentions to create game day experiences but your specifics seem a bit... I don't know... ugly? Galvanizing a whole section of the crowd to act like arseholes sledging one particular player can only end one way. The club ends up looking like the a-hole club. Or worse. What if the chosen player is indigenous? Then we look like the racist club. Or if the player reveals that he has been suffering from depression or that there was a death in the family. Then the club looks like utter campaigners.

How about galvanizing a section of the crowd to uplift one of our own? Pick out an unlikely cult figure, a battler or journeyman. Make him feel like a king for a day. Your section of the crowd still gets to feel engaged but without all the negativity.

I don't know about you but I go to the football to cheer on my team, not to scream abuse at the opposition.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Success can more than 'help', but it's contingent on the off field side of things being done well and perhaps not having someone with the profile of Wayne Carey absolutely murdering the club's public image.

Nah that's wrong. We don't have the backing like the big clubs.

Blaming Carey is pretty unfair imo.

Plenty of clubs have scandals like DeGoey, Martin, * cheating, etc.

 

[shintemaster]

I appreciate your higher intentions to create game day experiences but your specifics seem a bit... I don't know... ugly? Galvanizing a whole section of the crowd to act like arseholes sledging one particular player can only end one way. The club ends up looking like the a-hole club. Or worse. What if the chosen player is indigenous? Then we look like the racist club. Or if the player reveals that he has been suffering from depression or that there was a death in the family. Then the club looks like utter campaigners.

How about galvanizing a section of the crowd to uplift one of our own? Pick out an unlikely cult figure, a battler or journeyman. Make him feel like a king for a day. Your section of the crowd still gets to feel engaged but without all the negativity.

I don't know about you but I go to the football to cheer on my team, not to scream abuse at the opposition.

I don't know where you got the idea that razzing up a player has to be "ugly". I'm not writing my thesis here, just spitballing. It's a stretch to go from good natured stick of a preening opponent to we will all look racist. Oscar Wilde or Sam Clements were capable of withering charm and I'd like to think we can find people smart enough to tread the line with fun.

How about galvanizing a section of the crowd to uplift one of our own? Pick out an unlikely cult figure, a battler or journeyman. Make him feel like a king for a day. Your section of the crowd still gets to feel engaged but without all the negativity.

I don't know about you but I go to the football to cheer on my team, not to scream abuse at the opposition.

You do you but for mine football is built around tribalism and most of my (good) memories from younger days at the footy are of teasing and creative fun of players and opponents. There is a big difference between abuse and creative fun - most soccer songs are a pretty good example of this.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Now that the stadium we have to play at is owned by the league itself, there should be absolutely no reason why we can’t make money with even a modest crowd (15-20k) present.

I am aware however, that this is not the reality because the AFL are a bunch of complete campaigners.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Now that the stadium we have to play at is owned by the league itself, there should be absolutely no reason why we can’t make money with even a modest crowd (15-20k) present.

I am aware however, that this is not the reality because the AFL are a bunch of complete campaigners.

So what do you want to happen?

Tassie 2 games maybe for funding until we get our stadium deal right?

 

[Devington]

Nah that's wrong. We don't have the backing like the big clubs.

Blaming Carey is pretty unfair imo.

Plenty of clubs have scandals like DeGoey, Martin, * cheating, etc.

I'd argue that Carey's affair was the second biggest scandal of modern AFL times, with Jimmy Hird's doping escapades being the head-and-shoulders winner in that regard. Carey absolutely takes some of the blame for what happened to us in the early 21st century, regardless of what a champion he was on the field.

The best way to gain long term members is to convince short term members, AKA bandwagoners, into sticking with the club. The best way to get those bandwagoners in the door is to have success at the pointy end of the ladder. The best way to convert bandwagoners into dyed in the wool supporters is either through sustained long term success, where they feel their support has been rewarded (some beautiful silverware helps with that), and/or to have an extremely attractive culture that is rewarding in and of itself.

Having the captain, and best player of all time, root his vice-captains wife and leave in disgrace is a great way to make those supporters feel like s**t and become disenfranchised. The club, and by extension the supporters, were the butt of every joke. It's far from the only reason we didn't capitalise off field after that premiership era, but by god it's the most obvious one.

 

[ChoppyGun]

How is *s doping scandal not the worst?

 

[Devington]

How is *s doping scandal not the worst?

I literally said it was.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

I'd argue that Carey's affair was the second biggest scandal of modern AFL times, with Jimmy Hird's doping escapades being the head-and-shoulders winner in that regard. Carey absolutely takes some of the blame for what happened to us in the early 21st century, regardless of what a champion he was on the field.

The best way to gain long term members is to convince short term members, AKA bandwagoners, into sticking with the club. The best way to get those bandwagoners in the door is to have success at the pointy end of the ladder. The best way to convert bandwagoners into dyed in the wool supporters is either through sustained long term success, where they feel their support has been rewarded (some beautiful silverware helps with that), and/or to have an extremely attractive culture that is rewarding in and of itself.

Having the captain, and best player of all time, root his vice-captains wife and leave in disgrace is a great way to make those supporters feel like sh*t and become disenfranchised. The club, and by extension the supporters, were the butt of every joke. It's far from the only reason we didn't capitalise off field after that premiership era, but by god it's the most obvious one.

And the easiest way to disenfranchise long term members is to continually take away the value of their contribution to the club.

Asking for more, and giving less.

For going on two decades.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Sure Carey was a complete goose.

Unforgivable but to blame him for our lower supporter base is simply wrong imo. He brought more than we lost.

Martin threatened a girl with chopsticks. Dad a criminal.

Milne up for r^pe. (among many others)

De Goey has charges.

Carlisle and Mumford sniffing every illegal drug in sight.

etc etc

 

[ChoppyGun]

I literally said it was.

I read it as Hirds own issues and affairs not the club's.

My apologies Dev.

 

[Luke72]

1996 when we won was also the year we were in the merger discussions and there was a lot of resentment in the press about a possible invincible team. It was also a time when clubs were just starting to focus on memberships as a serious revenue source and could have pushed it harder.

I can’t recall if it was 96 or 99 but one of those years iirc we only made a profit because we won the flag and it was a meagre one. The press at the time still had digs at us for s**t facilities and finances.

Also Denis was not the most friendly dude when it came to handling the press. Along with the Carey situation soon after there were a number of factors that I think would be capitalised on better next time around.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Having a player root a wife

Stuart Anderson disagrees.

 

[shinboner magic]

Never knew Arden was one of Zondor other profiles

 

[Devington]

And the easiest way to disenfranchise long term members is to continually take away the value of their contribution to the club.

Asking for more, and giving less.

For going on two decades.

In more recent times we need just look at Tasmania. The Tasmania money has been really good for us. REALLY good for us. As have those Tasmanian members.

But how many of those members are locked in for the long term, vs how many already existing long term, but non Tasmanian, members have had their faith/resolve tested due to our home games being moved there? Throw in reserved seating and replacement game shenanigans and there's clearly a compounding effect that has to come at a cost.

I read it as Hirds own issues and affairs not the club's.

My apologies Dev.

That's fine.

 

[Colbys Boots]

I don't know where you got the idea that razzing up a player has to be "ugly". I'm not writing my thesis here, just spitballing. It's a stretch to go from good natured stick of a preening opponent to we will all look racist. Oscar Wilde or Sam Clements were capable of withering charm and I'd like to think we can find people smart enough to tread the line with fun.

You might have missed the news but a cricket test was stopped recently because a few good old boys thought their ribbing of an Indian player was sophisticated and clever. Turns out it was neither.

The point is, if you want an entire bay to razz up one player, you will inevitably have a few clowns take it too far. I can't speak for the club but I doubt they would want to officially endorse and promote bad behaviour.

 

[Passmore]

Yeah that's fine (ignore I'm Tasmanian).

I'm more asking your opinion on what you'd do if in charge?

No right or wrong answer to me.

Smarter blokes than me are in charge of that. I’m just a supporter enjoying the ride.