News NMFC & Tassie (the mass debate re our future there, the academy, attending advice)

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Mr Taswegian

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Maybe we will see a lot more of North and Hawks games by the looks of it because I think It would be a huge risk to grant Tasmania a licence.I think we lost the chance to have our own team when they planned on building that 30000 all seater stadium in Hobart in the nineties when I was only a kid,things have changed a lot since then.
 
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I'd be shocked if it wasn't mostly Hobart/southern based but with half the games and a good proportion of training and community related sessions up north. You can never make everyone happy but I think that's the best solution. There's not really much of a way around it, and there's a big difference between being a "Hobart based Tasmanian team" compared to being the "Hobart team". As long as neither the northern or southern Tasmania are a primary part of the club's identity I don't think many will care too much.
Regardless, it's still something of a risk if a significant portion of the state is less than enthused, refuses to abandon previous loyalties and/or flat out rejects the team. Given their population, Tassie would need absolutely everybody on board.
 

Tas

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The "lack of corporate support" ones always makes me laugh, as if North Melbourne is funded by "Aussie battler" local car manufacturer Mazda. I have fond memories of visiting the little mum and pop Emirates store in Collingwood as a kid, also.

With all due respect, anyone citing the North/South divide in 2021 doesn't really have the knowledge to be discussing Tasmanian football. It reeks of "I've never been to or researched your state, but let me tell you how it operates".
Most first tier Victorian suburban leagues pulled in more money from corporate support than TFL clubs did. When the state league dies, multiple times, due to the lack of money, it is more than just a perception of a lack of money.

There would be more financial support for an AFL side, because air time would represent more advertising value, but if there is a lack of penetration, particularly in Melbourne, the value of corporate advertising would be greatly diminished. Even Adelaide has been battling with the AFL to try and get more air time in Melbourne to significant increase their advertising revenue. Nobody paid Collingwood a fortune for advertising/sponsorship because they think Pies fans will buy a lexus or fly Emirates, it is all about advertising space and revenue.

I think Tasmania will be fine, financially, if the people who say they will support it do not pull out some time afterwards. Gold cost is in the shitter because a lot of the entities that supported them at inception pulled out over time when it wasn't cost effective to continue supporting them. Now they are selling games to try and stop the bleeding.

As to the North/South thing, i don't think that is an issue, there may be an issue of convenience for people. A lot of people in Melbourne wont go to Geelong because of the inconvenience and we don't hate the people of Geelong, it is just inconvenient to get to. Richmond, Collingwood and Hawks fans wont go from MCG to Docklands and that isn't very far at all.

I don't know where a Tasmanian side would be located or if it would cause a logistical issue for a group of people in Tasmania, but if it was inconvenient to get to then it would likely cause an issue.
 

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remfan101

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The real issue with a Tassie team is that interstate draftees won’t stay in Hobart. It’s just not the kind of town that will appeal to 18 year old AFL players, and I can’t see that changing.
 

Tas

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I think it is foolish for the Tasmanian premier to say he would refuse to negotiate a new deal with Hawks/North until he finds out if the AFL will grant a license. AFL do not have the ultimate say, stakeholders do and it wouldn't be a hard sell for North and Hawks to say the numbers are as overhyped as the GWS and GC optimistic financial numbers and the AFL wants to dilute your revenue base in the middle of a pandemic.

If we get to a point Hawks and North aren't playing in Tasmania for a number of years, they will likely blow any chance they have of getting a team.

I think they should push hard for their own team, but they shouldn't overplay their hand.
 

Tas

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The real issue with a Tassie team is that interstate draftees won’t stay in Hobart. It’s just not the kind of town that will appeal to 18 year old AFL players, and I can’t see that changing.
Hmmm, I think some wont like some do not want to stay with GWS or GC, but if you build a strong enough culture i think they will be fine.

They just need to be realistic and not target people who would likely bolt in their formative years, it would take a while to build that culture up.
 

Tas

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I'd be shocked if it wasn't mostly Hobart/southern based but with half the games and a good proportion of training and community related sessions up north. You can never make everyone happy but I think that's the best solution. There's not really much of a way around it, and there's a big difference between being a "Hobart based Tasmanian team" compared to being the "Hobart team". As long as neither the northern or southern Tasmania are a primary part of the club's identity I don't think many will care too much.
The logistics for a side to move training from one side of Tasmania to the other just to appease a small section of the community would put more stress on the side. Saints players refused to drive down the highway to that Seaford training hub.
 

Tas

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Maybe we will see a lot more of North and Hawks games by the looks of it because I think It would be a huge risk to grant Tasmania a licence.I think we lost the chance to have our own team when they planned on building that 30000 all seater stadium in Hobart in the nineties when I was only a kid,things have changed a lot since then.
I think it can work, financially, like Geelong works with a smaller attendance, however, i think it would require a similar premium when it comes to memberships/attendances.

I don't think the AFL clubs will support it without conditions placed on financing, that the AFL wont distribute more than they do to other clubs (non-expansion clubs). The burden would then fall to the Tasmanian government or the people of Tasmania to underwrite the figures they claim their financial model is based on rather than the AFL/other clubs doing so.

I've said previously the best way Tasmania would get their own side would be to pack out the Hawks and North games and have queues of people outside the stadium. It would send a message Tasmanians are hungry for their own side. The way the numbers have softened and the excuses that people wont go to North/Hawks games but will a Tasmanian side puts a lot of risk on those who have more to lose. If the AFL needs to give the Tasmanian side $20m a year like GC, and it really isn't adding anything to broadcasting rights then everyone is down the shitter.

Everyone is pulling numbers out of their arse, but what if a Tasmania team is pulling support like the North/Hawks games atm after a few years when the fad is over, where would we be then?
 
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big_e

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The real issue with a Tassie team is that interstate draftees won’t stay in Hobart. It’s just not the kind of town that will appeal to 18 year old AFL players, and I can’t see that changing.
It will for some, it won't for others. No different to draftees wanting to leave Melbourne and go back to Perth, Adelaide, wherever.
 

Only Forwards

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Maybe we will see a lot more of North and Hawks games by the looks of it because I think It would be a huge risk to grant Tasmania a licence.I think we lost the chance to have our own team when they planned on building that 30000 all seater stadium in Hobart in the nineties when a was only a kid,things have changed a lot since then.
The lack of adequate venue is an issue. And I say adequate, meaning to house a team that plays there every second week to AFL crowds. Not the few weeks a year pinch hitting across 2 venues.

York park has a capacity of 21k Bellreive has a capacity of 20k.

IMO you'd need a stadium that competes in size and gate taking ability to that of Kadinia park. The wiki page says $319m over a 20 year redevelopment. Around 104.4m from Victorian state based governments.

As far as wikipedia tells me the total upgrade across the two Tassie ovals is somewhere near 50(ish)m. with some of that (at least in Hobart) having already been redeveloped over.

I don't think it is just a case of build it and they will come. But in terms of stadium your best stadium is less than the victorian 3rd stadium. In fact your best stadium is probably closer the the Victorian 4th stadium in which the state government has committed $35m to.

My point is, when the AFL sit back and question how committed to football Tasmania is it does so from a position where other states happily funnel 100s of millions into stadiums to get games to happen. Carrra, Sydney showground, these stadiums have equally had money pumped into them.

If Tasmania truly want a team they should lobby the feds and front up some cash to build a stadium to house the footy in. It would be action that forces the AFL hand to commit either way.
 

Devington

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The logistics for a side to move training from one side of Tasmania to the other just to appease a small section of the community would put more stress on the side. Saints players refused to drive down the highway to that Seaford training hub.
More talking pre-season training/community camps rather than midweek training. The last training session before a game up that end of the state could also be an option, stay up there a couple of days beforehand. I absolutely agree that blokes wont be willing to do 4 hour round trips for a single mid week training session.
 

Tas

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More talking pre-season training/community camps rather than midweek training. The last training session before a game up that end of the state could also be an option, stay up there a couple of days beforehand. I absolutely agree that blokes wont be willing to do 4 hour round trips for a single mid week training session.
Would that token support appease people?

I want Tasmania to have their own side, and I want us playing all our games in Melbourne the sooner the better.

However, I am fascinated about the logistics on how Tasmania will operate and how successful it will be.
 

Engimal v3

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Most first tier Victorian suburban leagues pulled in more money from corporate support than TFL clubs did. When the state league dies, multiple times, due to the lack of money, it is more than just a perception of a lack of money.

There would be more financial support for an AFL side, because air time would represent more advertising value, but if there is a lack of penetration, particularly in Melbourne, the value of corporate advertising would be greatly diminished. Even Adelaide has been battling with the AFL to try and get more air time in Melbourne to significant increase their advertising revenue. Nobody paid Collingwood a fortune for advertising/sponsorship because they think Pies fans will buy a lexus or fly Emirates, it is all about advertising space and revenue.

I think Tasmania will be fine, financially, if the people who say they will support it do not pull out some time afterwards. Gold cost is in the shitter because a lot of the entities that supported them at inception pulled out over time when it wasn't cost effective to continue supporting them. Now they are selling games to try and stop the bleeding.

As to the North/South thing, i don't think that is an issue, there may be an issue of convenience for people. A lot of people in Melbourne wont go to Geelong because of the inconvenience and we don't hate the people of Geelong, it is just inconvenient to get to. Richmond, Collingwood and Hawks fans wont go from MCG to Docklands and that isn't very far at all.

I don't know where a Tasmanian side would be located or if it would cause a logistical issue for a group of people in Tasmania, but if it was inconvenient to get to then it would likely cause an issue.
The team would split home games between Hobart and Launceston, as the population split between the North and the South is roughly 50/50. Launceston would service the North West/East, as well as communities such as the Northern Midlands.

The team would obviously be based in Hobart, being the capital and city of highest population. Realistically though, players would be welcome to live anywhere in the state. I've driven from Launceston to Devonport in the same time that it's taken me to drive from Brunswick to Collingwood lol
 

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Tas

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The team would split home games between Hobart and Launceston, as the population split between the North and the South is roughly 50/50. Launceston would service the North West/East, as well as communities such as the Northern Midlands.

The team would obviously be based in Hobart, being the capital and city of highest population. Realistically though, players would be welcome to live anywhere in the state.
So the club would need to bring two stadiums up to AFL standard? (by AFL standard I mean the ability for the club to be able to generate $50m+ revenue from)

That would be a substantially higher cost and they would only be used for 5 or 6 games each a year.


I've driven from Launceston to Devonport in the same time that it's taken me to drive from Brunswick to Collingwood lol
Brunswick to Collingwood is around 5.6km with an average travel time of 13 minutes

Devonport to Hobart is 280km and an average travel time fo 3h10min. You are saying people from Devonport will be going to all the Hobart games?
 

Devington

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Would that token support appease people?

I want Tasmania to have their own side, and I want us playing all our games in Melbourne the sooner the better.

However, I am fascinated about the logistics on how Tasmania will operate and how successful it will be.
You just have to make sure it isn't seen as token support. Even if 80-90% of club activities were in Hobart that doesn't necessitate putting northerners on the wrong foot. Have half the games up there, be involved in the community up there, and most importantly don't make Hobart a big part of the identity. Unless you're as insane as one of the blokes posting on the main board that thinks there should be a club in Hobart and Launceston (and 20 other places).
 

Tas

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You just have to make sure it isn't seen as token support. Even if 80-90% of club activities were in Hobart that doesn't necessitate putting northerners on the wrong foot. Have half the games up there, be involved in the community up there, and most importantly don't make Hobart a big part of the identity. Unless you're as insane as one of the blokes posting on the main board that thinks there should be a club in Hobart and Launceston (and 20 other places).
Yeah, it will be interesting to see how it pans out. I guess we will find out soon enough.
 

Mr Taswegian

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So the club would need to bring two stadiums up to AFL standard? (by AFL standard I mean the ability for the club to be able to generate $50m+ revenue from)

That would be a substantially higher cost and they would only be used for 5 or 6 games each a year.




Brunswick to Collingwood is around 5.6km with an average travel time of 13 minutes

Devonport to Hobart is 280km and an average travel time fo 3h10min. You are saying people from Devonport will be going to all the Hobart games?
It would also be used for concerts and possibly cricket.
 

Engimal v3

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So the club would need to bring two stadiums up to AFL standard? (by AFL standard I mean the ability for the club to be able to generate $50m+ revenue from)

That would be a substantially higher cost and they would only be used for 5 or 6 games each a year.
York Park is already AFL standard, just needs to be upgraded for a higher capacity. I reckon they'll develop down in Hobart first (whether that's upgrading Bellerive or developing something new), and then focus on Launceston down the line.

Brunswick to Collingwood is around 5.6km with an average travel time of 13 minutes

Devonport to Hobart is 280km and an average travel time fo 3h10min. You are saying people from Devonport will be going to all the Hobart games?
I'm saying the exact opposite actually. I was suggesting games will be split between Launceston and Hobart so that those from the far North can attend games without making that long travel. I'm not sure why you calculated from Devonport to Hobart and asked me to justify when I clearly said Launceston to Devonport lol, but I'll take it in good faith that you misread and weren't trying to misrepresent what I was saying.
 

Tas

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York Park is already AFL standard, just needs to be upgraded for a higher capacity. I reckon they'll develop down in Hobart first (whether that's upgrading Bellerive or developing something new), and then focus on Launceston down the line.
Geelong found they had to redevelop their stands to fit in more corporate boxes and fit in a lot more seating so they could allocate to reserved seating, it will be difficult to make the money without that capacity and without there being more demand than supply.

I'm saying the exact opposite actually. I was suggesting games will be split between Launceston and Hobart so that those from the far North can attend games without making that long travel. I'm not sure why you calculated from Devonport to Hobart and asked me to justify when I clearly said Launceston to Devonport lol, but I'll take it in good faith that you misread and weren't trying to misrepresent what I was saying.
I think that is the problem. If the population was more concentrated it would definitely be feasible for one stadium. Requiring two stadiums to each capture half of Tasmania is going to cost significantly more money.

A lot of people have suggested that the whole Tasmanian team will generated support from all over Tasmania, for the one team at the one venue and it doesn't sound that it is based on reality.
 

Mr Taswegian

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What concerts?

Very few touring music acts make it to Tasmania. Just not enough money to make it worthwhile for the promoters (there the ones who carry the risk and bankroll the tours - one of the biggest is a product of Tasmania).
If you have a large capacity venue then you can attract more of them.
 

Engimal v3

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Geelong found they had to redevelop their stands to fit in more corporate boxes and fit in a lot more seating so they could allocate to reserved seating, it will be difficult to make the money without that capacity and without there being more demand than supply.



I think that is the problem. If the population was more concentrated it would definitely be feasible for one stadium. Requiring two stadiums to each capture half of Tasmania is going to cost significantly more money.

A lot of people have suggested that the whole Tasmanian team will generated support from all over Tasmania, for the one team at the one venue and it doesn't sound that it is based on reality.
I've never seen it suggested that the Tasmanian side wouldn't play out of both Hobart and Launceston, with the team being based in Hobart. I think it's extremely unlikely that all games would be played entirely in Launceston or Hobart. It wouldn't surprise me if the AFL read the situation that poorly though lol. If it was up to them, we'd end up playing out of Longford or something equally as bizarre.

It's definitely a stretch to say that the people of Burnie are going to travel to Hobart every week, but Launceston to Hobart (and vice versa) is something many people do quite frequently and the Greater Launceston and Greater Hobart areas contain a majority of the population of Tasmania.
 

big_e

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If you have a large capacity venue then you can attract more of them.
Any football/cricket ground can have concerts now - you literally just need a bit of open space. The problem isn't the venue, the problem (as blackshadow says) is that Hobart isn't big enough to draw enough people to make it financially viable.

And if you're having concerts on a football/cricket ground, the window in which you can have those concerts is very small - a few weeks in March and another few weeks in September/October. Otherwise the potential damage to the ground from thousands of people and tonnes and tonnes of equipment on it makes the risk to the sporting events too great.
 

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