No ASADA appeal; files sent to WADA. WADA deadline about May 11th

[Jesse Custer]

in all honesty I was gutted by the decision, not because I despise EFC but because it just seemed like such a snow job.

This way we get the questions answered and that makes me happy. Whichever way things go no one cannot say justice was not done.

From an EFC perspective I think you should be satisfied as well ... the not guilty by the AFL picked tribunal stank of cover up .... no one will question the CAS finding if it goes your way.

Don't worry I'm with you on this all the way.

 

[jenny61_99]

going to be interesting to see how The_Wookie and other mods apply the whole no bumping rule and the no gloating rule they were so hot on after the AFL tribunal eh?

Are you serious? There have been dozens of Bomber fans in here for the last three weeks gloating all over the place. Never saw them before, likely to not see them again. Even some regulars who, whilst trying to maintain a balanced position before the tribunal decision, were positively sticking it to the man. I believe I received an unprecedented amount of attention during this period. The temptation to go back and bump all those posts is huge, however I decided I'm bigger than that. Well, not entirely true, I bumped Boncers one to get it out of my system, and I'm all good now!

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Are you serious? There have been dozens of Bomber fans in here for the last three weeks gloating all over the place. Never saw them before, likely to not see them again. Even some regulars who, whilst trying to maintain a balanced position before the tribunal decision, were positively sticking it to the man. I believe I received an unprecedented amount of attention during this period. The temptation to go back and bump all those posts is huge, however I decided I'm bigger than that. Well, not entirely true, I bumped Boncers one to get it out of my system, and I'm all good now!

yeah I'm serious. Multiple infractions were handed out for gloating and bumping

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Personally I'd have followed the advice of my own investigators.

Is that in the same way that Hird followed the advice of his club and players when he appealed "on behalf of them"?

 

[Blueballs38]

my sig?

The big. NOT GUILTY one.

I have a lot of respect for you Lance, you are a decent poster as EFC people go ... I would have done the same thing in your shoes.

I suspect there is a big part of you that welcomes this appeal simply because it's decision is final.

If there was no appeal the stigma of cheating would have followed EFC for a generation ... this way there will be no doubt.

 

[Blueballs38]

Don't worry I'm with you on this all the way.

Good to see, I really do not care which way it goes ... More interested in it being out of the AFL's hands.
Hopefully they will be exposed on an international level and a broom taken to the lot of them.
Dollars should never be put in front of the integrity of the game and the AFL have been doing it for years.
Screw EFC I want the commission more than anyone else!

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

CAS is the end of the line for everyone as far as I understand. So people will have no choice but to accept their decision.

Unless WADA can pull a rabbit out of ASADA's empty hat I don't see CAS being any more convinced than the tribunal that already heard the case - but time will tell.

I certainly won't be wasting my time here for the next 3 months reading regurgitated information. But like everyone else will be interested in the CAS hearing when it finally comes around

It's not as big a jump as you seem to think.
Satisfied that all parties were referring to TB-4 when talking about thymosin.
Satisfied that Dank ordered TB-4.
Satisfied that Charter went to China to procure ingredients for TB-4
Satisfied that Alavi compounded what he believed to be TB-4.
Satisfied that Dank recieved said shipment from Alavi.
Not satisfied that TB-4 is the substance that left China.
It's a bit of a stretch to be satisfied of all those points then come to the conclusion that the Chinese factory might have substituted a different product or made a picking error.
If CAS come to the same conclusion on the first 5 points, it would be strange for them not to assume that all parties involved got what they were after.

 

[boncer34]

Is that in the same way that Hird followed the advice of his club and players when he appealed "on behalf of them"?

If you think by attacking Hird you'll in some way upset me you'll be disappointed

 

[billy hutch]

It's not as big a jump as you seem to think.
Satisfied that all parties were referring to TB-4 when talking about thymosin.
Satisfied that Dank ordered TB-4.
Satisfied that Charter went to China to procure ingredients for TB-4
Satisfied that Alavi compounded what he believed to be TB-4.
Satisfied that Dank recieved said shipment from Alavi.
Not satisfied that TB-4 is the substance that left China.
It's a bit of a stretch to be satisfied of all those points then come to the conclusion that the Chinese factory might have substituted a different product or made a picking error.
If CAS come to the same conclusion on the first 5 points, it would be strange for them not to assume that all parties involved got what they were after.

Just a few questions about the above.
Is there any legal proof that any of the above occurred ?
Did the chinese get payment for any illegal Peds ?
Who from and where are the banking records to confirm it ?
Are there banking records to cover payments in the Charter/Alavi/ Dank transaction chain ?
Is there any proof that EFC paid for them ?
Is there any proof that anyone else paid for them ?
Were they ever administered to EFC players ?
This crap is not cheap and no one gives it away for free.
The oldest truth is follow the money ?

These are the questions that must be answered before any one can be convicted for anything.
Answ
Who by

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

If you think by attacking Hird you'll in some way upset me you'll be disappointed

Not trying to upset and it's not an attack. Purely pointing out the hypocrisy.
ASADA ignored the advice of their investigators and went ahead with the charges. They went on the advice of a retired Supreme Court judge. As the governing body of sports doping in Australia, they have the right to do that.
Hird ignored the advice of his employer and his underlings and appealed the court ruling. He claimed it was on their behalf even though they chose not to appeal and asked him to leave it be. He went on the advice of his lawyers and as an employee of the club that asked him not to pursue it, he probably didn't really have a right to.
According to Essendon supporters, Hird was well within his rights to appeal, but ASADA should have dropped it before laying any charges...

 

[Chameleon75]

Just a few questions about the above.
Is there any legal proof that any of the above occurred ?
Did the chinese get payment for any illegal Peds ?
Who from and where are the banking records to confirm it ?
Are there banking records to cover payments in the Charter/Alavi/ Dank transaction chain ?
Is there any proof that EFC paid for them ?
Is there any proof that anyone else paid for them ?
Were they ever administered to EFC players ?
This crap is not cheap and no one gives it away for free.
The oldest truth is follow the money ?

These are the questions that must be answered before any one can be convicted for anything.
Answ
Who by

off site injections make it extremely difficult to link financials to efc

 

[Lance Uppercut]

The big. NOT GUILTY one.

I have a lot of respect for you Lance, you are a decent poster as EFC people go ... I would have done the same thing in your shoes.

I suspect there is a big part of you that welcomes this appeal simply because it's decision is final.

If there was no appeal the stigma of cheating would have followed EFC for a generation ... this way there will be no doubt.

I am completely happy for WADA to appeal. That's the process, and that's their job. Just because the team I support are affected by it doesn't mean I think the whole process if flawed. Far from it.

I welcome WADAs decision to enact their reserved right to review the decision, not least because one way or another it will shut up the conspiracy theorists

 

[billy hutch]

off site injections make it extremely difficult to link financials to efc

Why, someone has to pay . My point is if EFC paid QED.
If the offsite clinic paid how does it appear on their balance sheet. As a donation ?
Did EFC pay the offsite clinic ?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Just a few questions about the above.
Is there any legal proof that any of the above occurred ?
Did the chinese get payment for any illegal Peds ?
Who from and where are the banking records to confirm it ?
Are there banking records to cover payments in the Charter/Alavi/ Dank transaction chain ?
Is there any proof that EFC paid for them ?
Is there any proof that anyone else paid for them ?
Were they ever administered to EFC players ?
This crap is not cheap and no one gives it away for free.
The oldest truth is follow the money ?

These are the questions that must be answered before any one can be convicted for anything.
Answ
Who by

They don't need "legal proof", they just need enough evidence to comfortably satisfy the tribunal. What proof they had, I don't know, but it obviously was enough to comfortably satisfy them on those points.

Perhaps you can now answer one question.
How can anybody, honestly, be satisfied on those first 5 points, but then come to the conclusion that it might have been something other than TB-4 that left China?
It makes no sense to agree with others, then do a complete 180 on the last.
As for the money trail. It's highly convenient that Dank owns and runs a business that can legally buy, supply and inject banned substances, as long as they go to the general public and not a professional sports person.
This last part is obviously pure conjecture, but there's nothing to stop him from buying the good and the bad stuff under the banner of his business, invoicing his customers for the illegal stuff that they genuinely have a purpose for, but injecting them with the good stuff. Invoicing EFC for the good stuff, but supplying and injecting them with the banned stuff. It's a perfect cover and the money trail only goes as far as his business (which is above board) for the bad stuff. The money trail for EFC only shows them getting the good stuff. He could potentially get sued by a lot of clients if he was switching stuff around.

 

[Chameleon75]

Why, someone has to pay . My point is if EFC paid QED.
If the offsite clinic paid how does it appear on their balance sheet. As a donation ?
Did EFC pay the offsite clinic ?

if the invoice says for services rendered, how do you determine what is what, its why asada went to the supreme court to try and compel alvi and dank to hand over records of their private businesses

 

[boncer34]

Not trying to upset and it's not an attack. Purely pointing out the hypocrisy.
ASADA ignored the advice of their investigators and went ahead with the charges. They went on the advice of a retired Supreme Court judge. As the governing body of sports doping in Australia, they have the right to do that.
Hird ignored the advice of his employer and his underlings and appealed the court ruling. He claimed it was on their behalf even though they chose not to appeal and asked him to leave it be. He went on the advice of his lawyers and as an employee of the club that asked him not to pursue it, he probably didn't really have a right to.
According to Essendon supporters, Hird was well within his rights to appeal, but ASADA should have dropped it before laying any charges...

Hypocrisy? From who? Me?

 

[scotch and coke]

I am completely happy for WADA to appeal. That's the process, and that's their job. Just because the team I support are affected by it doesn't mean I think the whole process if flawed. Far from it.

I welcome WADAs decision to enact their reserved right to review the decision, not least because one way or another it will shut up the conspiracy theorists

I'm in the same boat as Lance, we all want the TRUTH but until we see something concrete infront of us all I will stick with my club till the death. I admire people like Lance who has debated the issue in a controlled and measured way(unlike some from all sides incl Ess people ) and would like to see like everyone else an outcome either way that doesn't look like it's been manipulated.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Hypocrisy? From who? Me?

As well as many others. Your post that I originally replied to has been echoed by Essendon supporters for a while now.
"Woo hoo, we are innocent! ASADA should have listened to the advice from their investigators and dropped the case, blah blah blah".
But you all seemed happy for Hird to appeal the court case, even though it went against the advice of the club and players.
Picking and choosing when each set of rules apply.

 

[ZergMinion]

If this saga has shown us anything, it's that people will jump at the opportunity to nail their nuts to the mast of whichever side of the argument they're on before all the info is in.

Right now, all we can be absolutely certain of on the 11th is bleeding scrotums.

And as is typical of this saga, even the bleeding scrotums were a day late.

 

[Tiger2709]

I must say I was a bit shocked when I heard the news, the one person I'm happy for is McDevitt who I thought tried to do a good job with limited powers and resources and then copped so much crap from Essendon supporters and a number of supposed journalists about what a joke he was, apparently his decision to go ahead with the tribunal was totally correct even if the result at the end of this is the same, there must at least be something in the evidence for WADA to press on.

The only other thing is thank goodness it is now right out of the AFL's hands and at the end of the day the decision, what ever it is, can be fairly accepted by all, there must be a few red faces at AFL headquarters and for that alone Im happy, it's long passed the time we got some decisions from them based on what actually happens rather than what they think is best for the boys club.

 

[CaloundraClown]

Stayed up til 4am to see the news - comes out just after I go to bed lol

 

[boncer34]

As well as many others. Your post that I originally replied to has been echoed by Essendon supporters for a while now.
"Woo hoo, we are innocent! ASADA should have listened to the advice from their investigators and dropped the case, blah blah blah".
But you all seemed happy for Hird to appeal the court case, even though it went against the advice of the club and players.
Picking and choosing when each set of rules apply.

I wasn't. It was his right to appeal but I don't think he should've. Same as it was ASADA's right to push the case forward and WADA's right to appeal but I don't think they should have.

So....... How am I a hypocrite? Or maybe you want to back up a little on that call?

 

[Honesty Seeker]

Sad response mate... clutching at straws desperately now and just making yourself and your case look stupid!

WADA wont appeal mate... ASADA had nothing and tried to bluff the players and the code into accepting a deal. The mentality and intimidation of cops doesnt work in sport....

Players are not guilty and have been proven so... even if you refuse to accept it.

1. WADA HAS appealed!
2. Despite James Hird's spin, the players, coach and club were NOT found not guilty nor innocent!
The coach injected himself with the same drugs as the players but would not say what he injected into himself as this would have i) incriminated himself ii) incriminated the players.
3. WADA has much more power than ASADA and is able to prosecute if it was found that records (of evidence) were destroyed by Essendon, which has all but been admitted by them.

All sports lovers should be happy that we have WADA working to keep untested drugs off the streets.
(Hopefully anti-alcohol and gambling authorities will gain similar powers in years to come when we all wake up to the damage we have been supporting for too long. Ps I reckon we should legalise players gambling on games. That would soon get rid of the big boys cos they wouldn't risk their money on an unfixable game).

 

[Honesty Seeker]

1. WADA HAS appealed!
2. Despite James Hird's spin, the players, coach and club were NOT found not guilty nor innocent!
The coach injected himself with the same drugs as the players but would not say what he injected into himself as this would have i) incriminated himself ii) incriminated the players.
3. WADA has much more power than ASADA and is able to prosecute if it was found that records (of evidence) were destroyed by Essendon, which has all but been admitted by them.

Thanx "neutralguy" for this link explaining the subpoena process: http://corporate.olympics.com.au/files/dmfile/KateLundy__161012_Kempattach.pdf

All sports lovers should be happy that we have WADA working to keep untested drugs off the streets.
(Hopefully anti-alcohol and gambling authorities will gain similar powers in years to come when we all wake up to the damage we have been supporting for too long. Ps I reckon we should legalise players gambling on games. That would soon get rid of the big boys cos they wouldn't risk their money on an unfixable game).

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I wasn't. It was his right to appeal but I don't think he should've. Same as it was ASADA's right to push the case forward and WADA's right to appeal but I don't think they should have.

So....... How am I a hypocrite? Or maybe you want to back up a little on that call?

Fair enough. Comment still stands as a generalisation.