Preview No Changes vs Saints

[DangerSloane]

Agree with turning Laird into a tagger.
Would love to have him around the ball more.

Also he is a decent defender so even if one of the taller mids took him forward, he'd be able to find a matchup to assist, or even put a big fist through himself (even at his short stature)

 

[DangerSloane]

easy to fix. only ever kick the ball to a player who is in at least 15m of free space. then chip sideways, chip backwards, sideways again, 20m forward at 45 degrees, sideway, backwards, long to a contest on the line. lose the stoppage, concede a goal. but it's not from a turnover, so the problem has been solved.

How about just kicking it to a teammate in a good position?
Instead of kicking it to the opposition in better positon.

 

[1970crow]

That's one way of looking at it. I choose to believe that Pets doesn't have the highest footy IQ going around and as a result isn't great at reading the ball/play (better than 98% of players going around, but not great by AFL standards). The end result is that he is constantly led to the ball by his opponent, who is better at reading the play. Pets isn't intentionally playing off his man, or second to the ball, he's just not good enough at reading the play to be first to the ball.

I'd be prepared to agree, except that everything that I recall being said about pets by the coaches refers to his defensive play. I've never heard anyone mention that he's there to kick goals. I'd go as far to say that he'd be the only small forward in the league who could play 22 games without kicking a goal or provide a goal assist. I've always been of the understanding, and I may be wrong, but his performance has been measured by tackles and pressure acts. not goals or goal assists.

 

[OldCrowBloke]

no, no I was not

Oh, I was in Sydney at a wedding on Sat afternoon, and met a guy called Bernie....

 

[Vader]

I'd be prepared to agree, except that everything that I recall being said about pets by the coaches refers to his defensive play. I've never heard anyone mention that he's there to kick goals. I'd go as far to say that he'd be the only small forward in the league who could play 22 games without kicking a goal or provide a goal assist. I've always been of the understanding, and I may be wrong, but his performance has been measured by tackles and pressure acts. not goals or goal assists.

There's no doubt that the defensive aspects of his game are considered more important. I'm not sure I'd go quite as far as you have in stating that his ability to perform as a forward is almost completely irrelevant.

That said, his contribution as a forward is completely irrelevant and he keeps getting selected, so you could well be right.

 

[1970crow]

How about just kicking it to a teammate in a good position?
Instead of kicking it to the opposition in better positon.

that's another way to solve the problem. I think we'll see us attempt both solutions this weekend. I wonder which one we'll be more successful at.

 

[AFC979810]

I'm very interested in finding out whether there is another 'defensive' forward out there who doesn't have a lock-down role on a single player who performs this whole of forward line defensive role each week.

Paul Puoppolo for Hawthorn.

Plays the exact role that Pets played in 2012. Its very effective if you have the scoring power of Roughhead/Gunston. Its less effective if you have any combination of Pods/Jenkins/McKernan/Johnston/Otten and a midfield butchering the ball.

 

[DangerSloane]

Paul Puoppolo for Hawthorn.

Plays the exact role that Pets played in 2012. Its very effective if you have the scoring power of Roughhead/Gunston. Its less effective if you have any combination of Pods/Jenkins/McKernan/Johnston/Otten and a midfield butchering the ball.

Its also effective if said player knows how to get the footy and kick a goal.

 

[Big Trozza]

I'd like to see Mckernan back in and Jenkins pushing up the ground (where IMO he does his best work). This is assuming Lynchy comes back through the SANFL. Jenkins is quick and would be a hard match up.

 

[haydo]

I'd like to see Mckernan back in and Jenkins pushing up the ground (where IMO he does his best work). This is assuming Lynchy comes back through the SANFL. Jenkins is quick and would be a hard match up.

Not a bad idea. Have Jenkins play a Matthew Richardson type role on the wing you reckon?

 

[AFC979810]

Its also effective if said player knows how to get the footy and kick a goal.

They are extremely similar.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...d1=3508&tid2=2&pid2=2742&type=A&fid1=C&fid2=C

Same amount of goals.

Puoppolo averages 3 more touches a game playing in a side that is much much better than ours.

 

[DangerSloane]

They are extremely similar.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...d1=3508&tid2=2&pid2=2742&type=A&fid1=C&fid2=C

Same amount of goals.

Puoppolo averages 3 more touches a game playing in a side that is much much better than ours.

But does a much better defensive job, and uses the ball better, and doesnt panic infront of goals.

 

[DangerSloane]

Also If you look at Puopolo's last 20 games they'd be much more than 3 disposals higher.

 

[Freshj]

Reckon lynch will be rushed back into the side this week?

 

[1970crow]

Paul Puoppolo for Hawthorn.

Plays the exact role that Pets played in 2012. Its very effective if you have the scoring power of Roughhead/Gunston. Its less effective if you have any combination of Pods/Jenkins/McKernan/Johnston/Otten and a midfield butchering the ball.

they were pretty similar in 2012. another year on and puopolo has gone from averaging 10.6 to 17 disposals while still maintaining the defensive aspect of his game. pets dropped from 10.6 to 10.0 in the same period. Puopolo averaging 17.7 so far this year, despite his defensive skills, I'd be reasonably confident saying that puopolo's job as a small forward is primarily to get the ball.

 

[AFC979810]

But does a much better defensive job, and uses the ball better, and doesnt panic infront of goals.

I am not saying Pets is better than Puoppolo.

I am saying that in a high scoring forward set up there is a role for that type of player. We used it well in 2012. Hawthorn have been using it with great success. Richmond use Jake King for this exact role.

If we can get Tex back and can build up a successful forward line - there is absolutely no reason that we wouldn't put Pets into our side to play this role.

 

[AFC979810]

they were pretty similar in 2012. another year on and puopolo has gone from averaging 10.6 to 17 disposals while still maintaining the defensive aspect of his game. pets dropped from 10.6 to 10.0 in the same period. Puopolo averaging 17.7 so far this year, despite his defensive skills, I'd be reasonably confident saying that puopolo's job as a small forward is primarily to get the ball.

Yeah - he has improved in his ball getting abilities, but this is an added bonus. The #1 reason he is in that side is to be a defensive forward. His disposal isn't great, but thats fine because Hawthorn have so many elite ball users. I seriously doubt his KPI's at the club are based around possession counts and goals.

 

[AFC979810]

they were pretty similar in 2012. another year on and puopolo has gone from averaging 10.6 to 17 disposals while still maintaining the defensive aspect of his game. pets dropped from 10.6 to 10.0 in the same period. Puopolo averaging 17.7 so far this year, despite his defensive skills, I'd be reasonably confident saying that puopolo's job as a small forward is primarily to get the ball.

Another one is Jake King for Richmond. Dennis Armfield was moved to that role in late 2013 for Carlton.

 

[Big Trozza]

Not a bad idea. Have Jenkins play a Matthew Richardson type role on the wing you reckon?

Yeah its worth a shot. Jenkins must stay in the side IMO. Has all the attributes to be a very good player.

 

[GROTTO]

But does a much better defensive job, and uses the ball better, and doesnt panic infront of goals.

I still cannot fathom why the guy played on, well yes I can. But the decision making process is flawed of his.

 

[GROTTO]

Yeah its worth a shot. Jenkins must stay in the side IMO. Has all the attributes to be a very good player.

If Jenkins had kicked 2-2 or 3-1, it would have helped a lot but kicking 0-4 hurt us. With that said, I agree his value is on the wing where he cant do "damage" on the scoreboard. If you remove his shots at goal, he played a good game last week.

 

[GROTTO]

CEY will definitely play this week.

 

[GROTTO]

I dont think we should rush or risk Lynch, give him another week off. If we cant win these next 4 games we might as well pack up for season 2014.

 

[Tex200]

If Jenkins had kicked 2-2 or 3-1, it would have helped a lot but kicking 0-4 hurt us. With that said, I agree his value is on the wing where he cant do "damage" on the scoreboard. If you remove his shots at goal, he played a good game last week.

Agree. He's now 24.27 since start of 2013 - a deadset liability that must be deflating to team mates.

 

[GROTTO]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...anxiety-brenton-sanderson-20140410-zqt60.html

But Sanderson says the Crows' bleak streak has brought players and coaches closer together than ever before as they vow to fight their way out of a rut.


"In the two and half years I have been here, the playing group and the coaches have never been closer and I really mean that," Sanderson told reporters on Thursday.

So am I right in drawing an inference that if we lose this week, the player group will be even much more closer, finding positives in a loss, sure things are going well at West Lakes.