Opinion No more flakey flankers

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RussellEbertHandball

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Message to Cripps and Parker and even CD. Stop chasing flakey flankers. If Dawson is a flakey flanker, I don't want him.

They were exposed again last night and most of them gave us nothing. Motlop and Fantasia delivered their usual expensive overpaid flakey efforts in a big final. DBJ, Burton, Bergman, Houston, Rozee, Butters, Amon, all out wide on the flanks and flakey.

Even Aliir when you have a smart coach set up against him, he basically turns into a flakey flanker.

They play solid, pretty footy when things are going well, but go missing and do dumb sh*t when the extreme heat is on.

If your recruit Rozee and Butters as midfielders play them in the middle. Butters hasn't recovered from his ankle and nerve damage injury, so when he isn't fit, he played like a flakey flanker last night. I know when his body is right he isn't flakey so play him in the middle when he is fully fit in 2022.

The one long term flakey flanker who delivered last night was Riley Bonner. Probably knew he was #22 on the selection list and had to deliver to play in a grand final.

Flakey coach and flakey flankers are not wanted or needed, in ferocious finals.
 

VineValerian

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Message to Cripps and Parker and even CD. Stop chasing flakey flankers. If Dawson is a flakey flanker, I don't want him.

They were exposed again last night and most of them gave us nothing. Motlop and Fantasia delivered their usual expensive overpaid flakey efforts in a big final. DBJ, Burton, Bergman, Houston, Rozee, Butters, Amon, all out wide on the flanks and flakey.

Even Aliir when you have a smart coach set up against him, he basically turns into a flakey flanker.

They play solid, pretty footy when things are going well, but go missing and do dumb sh*t when the extreme heat is on.

If your recruit Rozee and Butters as midfielders play them in the middle. Butters hasn't recovered from his ankle and nerve damage injury, so when he isn't fit, he played like a flakey flanker last night. I know when his body is right he isn't flakey so play him in the middle when he is fully fit in 2022.

The one long term flakey flanker who delivered last night was Riley Bonner. Probably knew he was #22 on the selection list and had to deliver to play in a grand final.

Flakey coach and flakey flankers are not wanted or needed, in ferocious finals.
Ahh.
The old 9P's Rule:

Flakey flankers found fallible, feeble and floundering in fast ferocious finals.
 

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Ford Fairlane

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I'll quote myself here ;)

Geoff Parker escapes a lot of scrutiny because he has picked off some very exciting players who make an immediate impact in outside positions.

But name the actual inside mids he has drafted in the past few years who have made an impact and look like a long term prospect. Not guys who look like they are exciting running around on flanks but players with a junior pedigree as a mid who have gone on to show they can produce at AFL level.

Drew? Is that it? And he's been on the list a while. SPP is a powerhouse soldier but has been wasted as a forward this year. Even so, he's not a big possession winner as a mid and not super skilled.

We really need to get some genuine centre square midfield talent. Looking over the next few years I see Ollie Wines and ...
 

RussellEbertHandball

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One of the reasons why I like listening to Matt Rendall talk about recruiting, is because he is an ex All Oz ruckman and understands rucks and KPP's and the fact you can't always recruit sexy fast flanker types for a quick sugar hit to build a list.

Look at how many KPP's and to a lesser extent rucks he recruited to the crows when he was their boss.

Plus he delves back 15 years or so with knowledge of players he assessed and has a good memory and admits his mistakes.

Cripps and Parker don't really like recruiting rucks and don't have a great record building a spine.
 
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Chewy316

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One of the reasons why I like listening to Matt Rendall talk about recruiting, is because he is an ex All Oz ruckman and understands rucks and KPP's and the fact you can't always recruit sexy fast flanker types for a quick sugar hit to build a list.

Look at how many KPP's and to a lesser extent rucks he recruit to the crows when he was their boss.

Plus he delves back 15 years or so with knowledge of players he assessed and has a good memory and admits his mistakes.

Cripps and Parker don't really like recruiting rucks and don't have a great record building a spine.
I think their philosophy has been to draft flankers who can contribute right away - whilst acquiring the spine guys (rucks, KPP) via free agency and/or trades because they're developed at that point and can be plug and play. A guy like Aliir for instance cost us a 2nd round pick. Had we drafted him in the 2nd round it probably takes 3-4 years to develop his body before he can play on the regular anyway. So I see their logic in that respect but at some point you need to draft KPPs, because at the end of the day, elite KPPs don't come up for acquisition, whereas elite midfielders pop up on the trader free agency block every year.
 

JakeNeadeFan

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It seems like we are constantly searching for the prototype player. We draft a plethora of outside players with extraordinary athletic ability over football ability and try to turn them into a jack-of-all trades superstar with usually very little success. Rozee, Duursma, Bergman, Farrell, Bonner, Aidyn Johnson.

The mantra this year of "adding strings to their bow" and playing guys out of their natural position has been a joke. It's just an admission that you have drafted too many of the same type of player and now need to fill gaps on the list. And to add insult to injury, most of the time adding "strings to their bow" usually means playing at half back ffs.

Draft players a range of players who play different positions, and play them in that position.
 

Chrizzt

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Melbourne and WBD are our main rivals for a premiership window and they have fully loaded midfields packed with young genuine mids.

We have Wines, Boak on his last wheels, and jury is still out on whether Drew is good enough. Duursma and Amon are wings not dedicated on ballers.

Butters and Rozee have potential, but as REH has said, they need to play there full time from round 1 if that’s the case.

Dawson will be best 22 but isn’t that midfielder. Tbh we should have gone harder after Viney last year
 

JakeNeadeFan

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Dawson is just about the perfect Hinkley flanker. He is probably drawing up plans for him to take the kick-ins as we speak. He might even give Jordan the licence to kick to the left hand side pocket every now and then instead of the right hand side.
 

elbarton

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I'll quote myself here ;)

Geoff Parker escapes a lot of scrutiny because he has picked off some very exciting players who make an immediate impact in outside positions.

But name the actual inside mids he has drafted in the past few years who have made an impact and look like a long term prospect. Not guys who look like they are exciting running around on flanks but players with a junior pedigree as a mid who have gone on to show they can produce at AFL level.

Drew? Is that it? And he's been on the list a while. SPP is a powerhouse soldier but has been wasted as a forward this year. Even so, he's not a big possession winner as a mid and not super skilled.

We really need to get some genuine centre square midfield talent. Looking over the next few years I see Ollie Wines and ...
Mead is the other one, but he has had a pretty rough go of it so far.
 

Ford Fairlane

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Dawson is just about the perfect Hinkley flanker. He is probably drawing up plans for him to take the kick-ins as we speak. He might even give Jordan the licence to kick to the left hand side pocket every now and then instead of the right hand side.
Whoa let's not get ahead of ourselves.
 

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El_Scorcho

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Are we recruiting based on personality types that ultimately cannot handle the pressure of the big games.
Could be, but I'm pretty sure the inability to handle pressure happens once they get here.

Completely agree with the premise of this thread. We've spent too many high picks on jacks of all trades flanker types.

Talls and centre square ballwinning mids have to be the foundation of a list.
 

Enviable Tradition

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Are we recruiting based on personality types that ultimately cannot handle the pressure of the big games.
As a general rule I think there is a reason clubs are willing to let players go.

You break the bank for the players you know will perform when it matters.

Those who aren't as reliable are generally the ones you are willing to let other teams over pay for and pry loose.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

70sDinosaur

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Posted this in the review thread but also fits here, the other issue Footy Classified mentioned was the complete lack of depth in our midfield. And they had to include wingers and flankers to get a decent sample together.

That's the cliff that's heading towards us.
Yes, Boak will be gone soon, as will Gray, who can't really play there anymore in any event.

We have Wines, who has elevated his game in the past two years after some lacklustre seasons. Drew has a future. SPP is built for midfield combat but is he skilled enough to make it? After that, the cupboard is pretty bare.

We have to hope that Butters and Rozee can make it as midfielders. I think Butters probably will but not sure about Rozee.

Beyond that, I think we should persist with Houston, who has shown some ability there in the past and give Bergman a go, as he looks a likely type.

There's a lot of ifs and maybes there, and even if they all work out we're probably still behind some other contenders in terms of sheer midfield talent.

We were able to endure finals setbacks and keep going in that 01-04 period because we had a lot of players who could go into the midfield, show quality and make a impact. That's what kept us competitive with Brisbane and their Fab Four. We don't have that luxury this time, we are going to have to leave no stone unturned in our efforts to improve the midfield or we will quickly fall off the pace.

There will be people here who will scoff because they've bought into a certain narrative, but I firmly believe that our midfield would look a lot better right now if it still had Wingard and Polec in it.
 

RussellEbertHandball

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Posted this in the review thread but also fits here, the other issue Footy Classified mentioned was the complete lack of depth in our midfield. And they had to include wingers and flankers to get a decent sample together.

That's the cliff that's heading towards us.

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Flakey Flankers dominate this list



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OnlyPowerForever

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Posted this in the review thread but also fits here, the other issue Footy Classified mentioned was the complete lack of depth in our midfield. And they had to include wingers and flankers to get a decent sample together.

That's the cliff that's heading towards us.
Can I be the devils advocate here and explain how often we won the contested ball battle this year?

The 5 best this year were the Demons, Cats, Lions, Bulldogs, and us. Coincidently the top 5 on the ladder.

Not disagreeing with the premise of the thread at all, its not great depth at all, certainly not good enough for a flag and it will seemingly get worse, but it wasn't our Achilles heel all year.

Only when it mattered. Which is all that matters really I guess.
 

Sleezy

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Can I be the devils advocate here and explain how often we won the contested ball battle this year?

The 5 best this year were the Demons, Cats, Lions, Bulldogs, and us. Coincidently the top 5 on the ladder.

Not disagreeing with the premise of the thread at all, its not great depth at all, certainly not good enough for a flag and it will seemingly get worse, but it wasn't our Achilles heel all year.

Only when it mattered. Which is all that matters really I guess.
The problem is, we lose that stat and we lose the game. And looks who we have to beat to win a flag...
 

Daylight2nd

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SPP is the obvious in list solution. He played a fair bit of midfield last year and did quite well but for some reason was marooned at half forward all of this year. Get him fit and focused and slot him in with Wines and Drew. That's a pretty good start.
I think with SPP, Boak, Wines and Drew have been preferred starting mids (you can only have 3 + the ruckman) and then Amon has been favoured pinch-hitter due to his superior ball use, fitness and speed. Then SPP lost spot in 22 to accommodate Fantasia, Motlop, extra tall forward (Georgi) and/or extra ruck (Ladhams).

I like him, and he isn't a "flakey flanker" but he's flawed. I would have preferred him to Fantasia in the PF 22. However, longer term, imagine a team of SPPs. Then we'd screaming for players with better disposal / decision making skills and general football nous. (and this thread might be called "no more boofhead bulls" ?).

Bottom line is we need more "complete players" - or at least reduce number of players with serious flaws, and get the balance right between "skill" and "physicality".

Here's an interesting question - who would Port's most "complete" current player be? ie: the best combination of Disposal Skills, Ball getting, Marking, Tackling and defensive ability, Decision Making and tactical nous, Consistency and mental toughness.

When you analyse our list we don't have many contenders.

Personally I'd have to say Ollie Wines despite his inconsistent kicking skills (which he's largely improved by learning to play within his limitations). I also like Karl Amon but his marking is pretty non-existent and there's still room for improvement with his tackling/defensive ability.
 

tribey

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I’m sky-high on Dawson and think he’ll be the premier recruit of the lot as he graduates up to full-time mid (and we land him), so it’s an unfair example, but I’m on board with the concept as a whole.
 

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