No more NBL coaches should coach the national team?

Alex99

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#26
So why has the boomers program gone backwards ever since?

Clearly these guys were good enough to be the best under 21 side in 1997 yet we failed to qualify for the 2002 WC? Why is that? Development or opportunity, we went from having the best under 21 side to not even qualifying in our region. Someone has to be at fault and it’s not Phil Smyth. Then in 2006 we finished equal 9th (9-16th did not play of for final spots)

Let me guess, not the maestro Barry Barnes who jumped ship as soon as it got a little difficult to try and develop some new guys.

So we have the best under 21 side in 1997 and 9 year later when these guys are hitting their prime we are a joke of a basketball nation. Yeah OK.
 

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Richard Cranium

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#27
Clearly these guys were good enough to be the best under 21 side in 1997 yet we failed to qualify for the 2002 WC? Why is that? Development or opportunity, we went from having the best under 21 side to not even qualifying in our region. Someone has to be at fault and it’s not Phil Smyth.
Alot of people will say that it was. Harsh, but he did pick a horribly unbalanced side. In his defence, there were a few players unavailiable, but there were also a few questionable selections.

You've also got to remember that NZ finished 4th or something like that in 02, so it wasn't as if we lost to a crappy team. They were a good team, we had lost some of our best ever players, and we had an unbalanced side. So there was more to it than Barnes not blooding some kids in 2000.

Then in 2006 we finished equal 9th (9-16th did not play of for final spots)
We did have some injuries (Anderson, Anstey, etc) and other issues (Neilsen's insurance). Remember that we had to call upon Mac to play the 4, and had Russell Hinder on the team.

So we have the best under 21 side in 1997 and 9 year later when these guys are hitting their prime we are a joke of a basketball nation. Yeah OK.
You keep assuming that those players were garaunteed to become stars, and something along the forced them into becoming lesser players. Did you ever think that maybe we just had a great 'team' and some of them didn't quite have 'it' at the senior level? Whether it be physichal (look at Scott McGregor now) or mental (Drmic) sometimes things just don't work out. It happens in every sport, and like I said, you can't blame Barnes for it happening with this group.

Out of that team, Neilsen, Anstey and Sammy Mac obviously went on with it and became stars. Dwight did also, but lost his career to injuries. And prety much all of them at least had decent careers. So obviously the avenues were there. Just some couldn't fulfill their potential (or maybe they did?) at senior level.
 

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#28
So why has the boomers program gone backwards ever since?

Clearly these guys were good enough to be the best under 21 side in 1997 yet we failed to qualify for the 2002 WC? Why is that? Development or opportunity, we went from having the best under 21 side to not even qualifying in our region. Someone has to be at fault and it’s not Phil Smyth. Then in 2006 we finished equal 9th (9-16th did not play of for final spots)

Let me guess, not the maestro Barry Barnes who jumped ship as soon as it got a little difficult to try and develop some new guys.

So we have the best under 21 side in 1997 and 9 year later when these guys are hitting their prime we are a joke of a basketball nation. Yeah OK.
I think you have to consider the fact that the Boomers program just wasn't that good to start with.

Once the top end talent (Gaze, Bradtke, Heal, Longley) retired, there simply wasn't anything to replace them with, and that was nothing to do with a lack of development. Basically, you just had three once-in-a-generation players on the same team and that allowed Australian basketball to punch well above its weight.

I think our current results are a reflection of our TRUE standing in international basketball
 

Alex99

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#29
If Barry Barnes coached an AFL team and left after the 2000 season, his predecessor would have been ****ed as the list management was screwed up. He basically had 5 or 6 of the very best 21 year old kids in the world and only ever gave 2 of them ago (Nilsson never got a go until way after Barnes was gone). He was the one who had to identify we were going to lose Gaze, Heal, Vlahov, Longley and Grace after the 2000 Olympics and implement a transition period way before this became a reality, but he didn’t. He never gave some of them a go and basically only looked after his own interest (yes he was allowed to do this but he could have blooded some youth as well at the same time in different situations) He had a group of very good kids coming through and he didn’t use them to the best of there ability.

You can say what you like but i will always blame Barry Barnes for stuffing this period up – no one else. He was the coach and he was the one who had to select player for the present and the future.

Let’s just hope that BG doesn’t do the same with the last group of under 19 world champions we produced. So far we have had Bogut and Mills selected way before their time and that gamble is paying off.
 

Richard Cranium

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#30
If Barry Barnes coached an AFL team and left after the 2000 season, his predecessor would have been ****ed as the list management was screwed up. He basically had 5 or 6 of the very best 21 year old kids in the world and only ever gave 2 of them ago (Nilsson never got a go until way after Barnes was gone). He was the one who had to identify we were going to lose Gaze, Heal, Vlahov, Longley and Grace after the 2000 Olympics and implement a transition period way before this became a reality, but he didn’t. He never gave some of them a go and basically only looked after his own interest (yes he was allowed to do this but he could have blooded some youth as well at the same time in different situations) He had a group of very good kids coming through and he didn’t use them to the best of there ability.

You can say what you like but i will always blame Barry Barnes for stuffing this period up – no one else. He was the coach and he was the one who had to select player for the present and the future.

Let’s just hope that BG doesn’t do the same with the last group of under 19 world champions we produced. So far we have had Bogut and Mills selected way before their time and that gamble is paying off.
I'm sorry, but that is a load if crap, and I think that even you know it. Only TWO players from that list were under 23 years old by 2000. You don't take 24 and 25 years olds for the sake of it.

Comparing it to the AFL is laughable. We're are talking about picking your best players every two years to represent their country, 'list management' doesn't come into it at all. You can keep selecting 26 and 27 year olds in their prime if you want, because you will always have those players coming throught.

If these guys were 19 or 20 in 2000, you may have a point. But they weren't, and they were at the age were they are not 'for the future'. They either have it or don't.

What you are saying is that they should've taken someone like Luke Kendall or Ian Crosswhite 'for the experience'. Or maybe if Newley wasn't good enough this year. There wouldn't be any point in it. If you are 23/24/25 and aren't not good enough, chances are that you won't be good enough when you are 27/28/29 just because you went and sat on a bench.

You mention Mills and Bogut. Bogut was 19 at the time and pretty much picked himself in Athens and was arguably our most important player. Mills has done the the same thing this year.

I can see that you won't be won over on this, but IMO, you haven't brought up a good point as to why Barnes should be blamed for this yet at all....
 

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#31
I think you have to consider the fact that the Boomers program just wasn't that good to start with.

Once the top end talent (Gaze, Bradtke, Heal, Longley) retired, there simply wasn't anything to replace them with, and that was nothing to do with a lack of development. Basically, you just had three once-in-a-generation players on the same team and that allowed Australian basketball to punch well above its weight.

I think our current results are a reflection of our TRUE standing in international basketball
Good post :thumbsu:
 

AJ_No.4

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#32
So why has the boomers program gone backwards ever since?

Clearly these guys were good enough to be the best under 21 side in 1997 yet we failed to qualify for the 2002 WC? Why is that? Development or opportunity, we went from having the best under 21 side to not even qualifying in our region. Someone has to be at fault and it’s not Phil Smyth. Then in 2006 we finished equal 9th (9-16th did not play of for final spots)

Let me guess, not the maestro Barry Barnes who jumped ship as soon as it got a little difficult to try and develop some new guys.

So we have the best under 21 side in 1997 and 9 year later when these guys are hitting their prime we are a joke of a basketball nation. Yeah OK.

Why do you think it is barnes fault for the non development of our Under 21 team in the mens system??

70% of that team went and became average or above average NBL players, is that barnes' fault???
 

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#33
If Barry Barnes coached an AFL team and left after the 2000 season, his predecessor would have been ****ed as the list management was screwed up.
AFL list management can not be compared to basketball.

National players don't spend three quarters of the year training and playing together. they all play for different clubs in diferent comps. development comes from there, when they reach the national level there shouldn't be any development needed. It should all be adjustments to different styles of basketball.
 

Alex99

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#34
I'm sorry, but that is a load if crap, and I think that even you know it. Only TWO players from that list were under 23 years old by 2000. You don't take 24 and 25 years olds for the sake of it.

Comparing it to the AFL is laughable. We're are talking about picking your best players every two years to represent their country, 'list management' doesn't come into it at all. You can keep selecting 26 and 27 year olds in their prime if you want, because you will always have those players coming throught.

If these guys were 19 or 20 in 2000, you may have a point. But they weren't, and they were at the age were they are not 'for the future'. They either have it or don't.

What you are saying is that they should've taken someone like Luke Kendall or Ian Crosswhite 'for the experience'. Or maybe if Newley wasn't good enough this year. There wouldn't be any point in it. If you are 23/24/25 and aren't not good enough, chances are that you won't be good enough when you are 27/28/29 just because you went and sat on a bench.

You mention Mills and Bogut. Bogut was 19 at the time and pretty much picked himself in Athens and was arguably our most important player. Mills has done the the same thing this year.

I can see that you won't be won over on this, but IMO, you haven't brought up a good point as to why Barnes should be blamed for this yet at all....
What - who give a **** it was 10 year ago so move the **** on. who cares, let it go.
 

Alex99

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#35
Why do you think it is barnes fault for the non development of our Under 21 team in the mens system??

70% of that team went and became average or above average NBL players, is that barnes' fault???
AFL list management can not be compared to basketball.

National players don't spend three quarters of the year training and playing together. they all play for different clubs in diferent comps. development comes from there, when they reach the national level there shouldn't be any development needed. It should all be adjustments to different styles of basketball.
Don’t care anymore, sick of this bullshit argument as it not proving anything. We had a good win today so let’s concentrate on that.

who cares.
 

AJ_No.4

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#36
Don’t care anymore, sick of this bullshit argument as it not proving anything. We had a good win today so let’s concentrate on that.

who cares.
why, because you made a stupid statement and couldn't back it up??

BTW we did have a great win today and there were a lot of psoitives to come out of it.
 

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Alex99

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#37
why, because you made a stupid statement and couldn't back it up??

BTW we did have a great win today and there were a lot of psoitives to come out of it.
No because it’s pointless and going nowhere, just like 99% of arguments on Big Footy or the Internet. I don’t care anymore about something that happened 10 years ago that i cannot control.

You can say what you like about player development or whatever but history tells me that Australian basketball found a way of going backwards with a very talented group of players and Barry Barnes was the senior man in change during this key time.

The buck falls with him.
 

AJ_No.4

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#38
No because it’s pointless and going nowhere, just like 99% of arguments on Big Footy or the Internet. I don’t care anymore about something that happened 10 years ago that i cannot control.

You can say what you like about player development or whatever but history tells me that Australian basketball found a way of going backwards with a very talented group of players and Barry Barnes was the senior man in change during this key time.

The buck falls with him.
History is proving that your blaming a bloke that has nothing to with individual development of basketball players and that your struggling to grasp that

The buck falls with the system not the coach...
 

Alex99

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#46
Anyway back on topic – if BG (and i understand that he is going to quit after the Olympics) is replaced as senior coach of the boomers, who would be a suitable replacement?
 
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