No non-Vic team has defeated a Vic team in the Grand Final without list or salary cap concessions

Discussion in 'AFL - The Australian Football League' started by amer, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. amer

    amer Norm Smith Medallist

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    That is damning.

    West Coast and Adelaide both had solid legs up in the 90s. Brisbane were hocked up when they dominated.

    Sydney had COLA in 2012 which aided in player retention.

    No one has done it. No one.

    The interstate sides are still relatively young in the expanded VFL competition.
    But there's already mountains of evidence that home ground is the biggest determinant.

    Geelong almost never loses at KP, and sides look unrecognisably poor when they play there. If you go to the ground and observe from up in the stand, you note two things immediately - that it is not an oval, and does not look like any football ground you've seen someone try to play football on before.

    You're watching a different brand of footy every week depending on which ground you're at, because teams have to figure out how to work within different dimensions while their opposition already has that down. Umpiring is reactionary, so you get a totally different ride depending on whose supporters are screeching that week. The turnaround in margin from home to away is regularly 10 or 15 goals.

    Barely anyone wins in Geelong. Barely anyone wins in Adelaide. And not a single interstate team has won on the MCG on grand final day without list or salary cap concessions.

    We're on a five year streak of non-vic teams "mysteriously" putting in absolute stinkers on grand final day. As much as it rubs Victorian nut sacks to think we've simply seen five consecutive inferior club environments exposed on the big day, that is a nonsensical impossibility.

    For the game to become truly national and actually fair, the grand final MUST move. We don't need a 100,000 stadium. Bigger events all over the world regularly seat 50 or 60k. It's absolute nonsense that our other stadiums couldn't put on a phenomenal grand final.

    It was so ******* disappointing spending all that money to go to a grand final, to see my team struggle with things that it could not address without practice in actual AFL games at that venue, while the other team has learned by playing on it way more at the elite level. To watch the umpires be swayed by the home crowd, and the teams themselves be affected by the home crowd. To see that it is just another away game, where we have to travel, and the opposition doesn't. Where we have to overcome what our opposition doesn't. My team can never bridge those disadvantages. They are systemic.

    I think this is going to be the single biggest conversation in the game the next several years, because it is becoming more structurally obvious with every season. Having a sport where every ground is a completely different size and shape, and then having the grand final ALWAYS at one ground that half the competition plays at way more than the rest, with all the other advantages that come with playing at home - is broken.

    EDIT: GRAPHIC OF TEAM RECORDS AT THE MCG SINCE 2007:

    9/10 Victorian teams have better records than ALL non-Victorian teams at the MCG. Melbourne, with their horrendous past 10 years, are still better than 5/8, and level with Sydney. Think about that for a moment.
    Discuss.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
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  2. DapperDon

    DapperDon Premium Platinum

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    Refresh me, what did WCE and Adelaide have in the 90's?
     
  3. General Giant

    General Giant Brownlow Medallist

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    No Victorian club has won a Grand Final away from their home state.


    MY GOD, INQUEST!!!

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
     
  4. kane249

    kane249 Smile

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    -A startup list of 37 compared to the 52 the other VFL teams got
    -The WAFL raided in the 2 years prior to us joining

    Yeah we got great concessions. But expect the usual half wits to say "state team" etc
     
  5. Thrillho_

    Thrillho_ Rookie

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    My favourite part was when you finished with discuss, like this hasn’t already atleast 5 threads close to the first page discussing this exact topic
     
  6. Engimal v3

    Engimal v3 Club Legend

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    Something, something, Hawthorn, something, Tasmania...

    Fill in the blanks, then laugh. Thank you.
     
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  7. conrad_437

    conrad_437 All Australian

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    Why send Hawthorn there when you can send north?
     
  8. amer

    amer Norm Smith Medallist

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    No other thread is discussing the start up concessions hiding a structural problem that is becoming more evident as they have worn off.
     
  9. madmug

    madmug Brownlow Medallist

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    They can both fer koff thanks.
     
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  10. citizen-erased

    citizen-erased Brownlow Medallist

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    Easy fix.
    MCG is the standard for the GF
    Build all stadiums to the same dimensions.
     
  11. amer

    amer Norm Smith Medallist

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    Your team gets screwed too.

    You fielded one of the worst sides ever seen in the AFL at KP and Richmond couldn't beat you.

    Then they flog you just a few weeks later on their ground, which they play on way more, when you were higher ranked than them.

    You guys couldn't deal with hawthorn in the grand final in 2008.

    You think they would have beaten you at KP?
     

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  12. amer

    amer Norm Smith Medallist

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    Not feasible when all the stadiums are already built.

    An actually possible alternative given the MCG is the biggest, is to let the higher ranked team choose their dimensions and have them painted that way on grand final day.
     
  13. blue harvest

    blue harvest Norm Smith Medallist

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    That's because they have been a great side for 10 years.
    We used to win there all the time when they were ordinary.

    Freo and Swans 2016 didn't put in stinkers. Did you actually watch?

    What is INSANE is that teams have a game plan that only works on certain grounds when they know all the grounds are different.
    Good teams can win on all grounds. In 2015 we beat the top 2 sides both at Subiaco and also won in Adelaide. We were good on all grounds.
     
  14. blue harvest

    blue harvest Norm Smith Medallist

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    So rip out the first 10 rows of seats and paint lines on the concrete?
     
  15. citizen-erased

    citizen-erased Brownlow Medallist

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    only recently built most of them.
    Geelong, Adelaide, WA teams, etc. - no sympathy for building stadiums that don't match the ground the GF is played on.
    We get none when we play there, so......
     
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  16. kranky al

    kranky al Brownlow Medallist

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    You beat us at subi with no nn

    We pantsed you at subi with nn

    Nn is the difference between us being top 4 and scraping into the 8.


    You get to be good on all grounds because you get game time on all grounds and a tenant of the most important one


    This is fun - we should do this in more threads
     
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  17. amer

    amer Norm Smith Medallist

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    Do you understand that it is not possible to get good executing a game plan without training it in games? Are you that dense?
     
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  18. blue harvest

    blue harvest Norm Smith Medallist

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    What did NN do on GF day?
    If you rely on such an unreliable player you are doomed.
     
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  19. blue harvest

    blue harvest Norm Smith Medallist

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    These loser threads are unbearable.
    It's the problem with society these days, it's always someone/something elses fault.
     
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  20. Tits_McGee

    Tits_McGee Richmond 2017 Premiers

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    Lets remove their flags then as they are tainted. Lets also remove Essendon 93 and 2000 flags as they were over the cap
     
  21. blue harvest

    blue harvest Norm Smith Medallist

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    We play on narrow grounds 2 or 3 times a year and we were good on them, beat the top 2 teams at Subi and also won at Adelaide Oval.
    You play on wide grounds such as the G, Gabba, SCG, Launceston quite a few times a year.

    Loser talk.
    Pathetic.
     
  22. greatwhiteshark

    greatwhiteshark Norm Smith Medallist

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    I have watched footy for 40 years and it is only in this modern era that supporters believe ground dimensions are a big part of their teams losing, never in the history of the sport at any level have ground dimensions been used as an excuse as they are now. In my opinion it is absolute nonsense.
    In the professional era of the game if you think coaches are scratching their heads saying how are we going to deal with the 8m difference on the wing or the 15m difference in length of the ground then seriously you are caught up in a social media bizarro world.
    Home ground advantage is alive and well in all sports and always has been but it has very little to do with the dimensions of the ground, it is travel, home crowd, uninterrupted week, familiar surroundings that are the advantage.
    Unfortunately for the non Vic sides the game that you win the cup in is played at the MCG which is always going to be an unfamiliar place to play and hence if they play 10 grand finals against Vic sides I reckon they will win 2-3 of them at the most. It is no different with Vic sides playing interstate games or finals, they win a small percentage of them. None of those games you can win the premiership in though.
    Yes there is an advantage for a Vic side playing a Non Vic side on Grand Final day, anyone who knows anything about football knows this. But if you believe it to be ground dimensions then you need to talk to your club and let them know they should get some adults to play for them because the players they have if they think ground dimensions are killing them will never win you a flag.
     
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  23. blue harvest

    blue harvest Norm Smith Medallist

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    Was trying to work out if there are any valid interstate flags left after reading the OP.
    Only one I can think of is Port, which is kind of ironic since a Crow was the OP.
     
  24. Underarm

    Underarm Norm Smith Medallist

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    In 2017, Port Adelaide had a home preliminary final against interstate Opposition. Lost.
    in 2016, GWS and Geelong both had Preliminary finals against interstate opposition. West Coast had Interstate opposition in their Elimination finals. All lost.
    In 2015, Fremantle had a home prelimnary final. Western Bulldogs had a home Elimination Final. Lost.

    Plenty of opportunities for Interstate clubs (and Victorian clubs) to advance in finals with a home ground advantage but have failed. So its only an Issue on Grand final day apparently.
     
  25. blue harvest

    blue harvest Norm Smith Medallist

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    In 1989 we played 1 game at the G in the lead up to the GF compared with the Cats playing 7.
    Back then no one gave a shit.

    People these days are pathetic.
     

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