Edited: No player currently 30 or younger has won a major

[Roobs321]

It is getting farcical now in light of these SF match-ups. I mean, I love and am excited by the SFs as much as anyone! Still, Venus, Serena and Lucic is an indictment given they first popped up on the scene two decades ago (I still recall the Venus-Serena & Lucic-Majoli R2 matches at the 1998 AO very well), and the men's side is also threatening a (lesser) blast from the past. Still fondly recall all their first AOs as well, Nadal against Hewitt in 2004 R3 (and R4 the following year), Wawrinka against Nalbandian in 2006 R2 and Federer's back-to-back R3 losses to Clement in 2000-01, before those incredible R4 losses to Haas & Nalbandian in 2002-03.

Still, gotta cherish all those memories across the years. It would be cool to see Venus finally win an AO, and a last Fedal epic for the ages would be immense (realistically, Stan will probably grab yet another slam). Glad to see Dimitrov playing up to his potential, not the type of talent you like to see going to waste.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

The women's game is in a really bad way at the minute. Thankfully there are finally a few younger talents looking like they might be up to taking the mantle (Kasatkina, Ostapenko, Konta, Muguruza, Pliskova, Svitolina and I'll begrudgingly add Keys). Right now though, while there are great stories as a result, a grand slam semi-final lineup of Venus, Serena and Lucic-Baroni is not really a positive for the sport.

The men's game is a bit harder to categorise. It's in a strange place right now. We have a bunch of ageing stars and consistent top twenty guys that are closer to the end than the beginning (Federer, Nadal, Tsonga, Wawrinka, Murray, Djokovic, Monfils, Berdych, Gasquet, Isner, Ferrer, Simon and, sadly, Del Potro has to be added here as well), along with a smattering of middle-aged guys who are very good players but haven't shown the capacity to win a slam and may not ever (Nishikori, Goffin, Dimitrov, Tomic, Sock and, while probably a harsh call, Raonic), a few youngsters that have demonstrated talent but are not sure things yet (Zverev, Kyrgios, Pouille, Thiem, Coric, etc), and some guys that are too young to call (Tiafoe, Fritz, Escobedo, Rublev, Opelka, etc). Right now we're seeing signs of almost all of the first group falling off, but only rare flashes of the other groups taking over. A lot of depth is about to be lost and I fear we're not close to replacing it.

I think the women's game is about to enter a stronger phase (and I certainly hope it does) but I fear that the men's game is about to fall into a similar lull as the women's game has experienced recently.

 

[The City Boyz]

The women's game is in a really bad way at the minute. Thankfully there are finally a few younger talents looking like they might be up to taking the mantle (Kasatkina, Ostapenko, Konta, Muguruza, Pliskova, Svitolina and I'll begrudgingly add Keys). Right now though, while there are great stories as a result, a grand slam semi-final lineup of Venus, Serena and Lucic-Baroni is not really a positive for the sport.

The men's game is a bit harder to categorise. It's in a strange place right now. We have a bunch of ageing stars and consistent top twenty guys that are closer to the end than the beginning (Federer, Nadal, Tsonga, Wawrinka, Murray, Djokovic, Monfils, Berdych, Gasquet, Isner, Ferrer, Simon and, sadly, Del Potro has to be added here as well), along with a smattering of middle-aged guys who are very good players but haven't shown the capacity to win a slam and may not ever (Nishikori, Goffin, Dimitrov, Tomic, Sock and, while probably a harsh call, Raonic), a few youngsters that have demonstrated talent but are not sure things yet (Zverev, Kyrgios, Pouille, Thiem, Coric, etc), and some guys that are too young to call (Tiafoe, Fritz, Escobedo, Rublev, Opelka, etc). Right now we're seeing signs of almost all of the first group falling off, but only rare flashes of the other groups taking over. A lot of depth is about to be lost and I fear we're not close to replacing it.

I think the women's game is about to enter a stronger phase (and I certainly hope it does) but I fear that the men's game is about to fall into a similar lull as the women's game has experienced recently.

Out of interest, would you see Dasha as a chance of winning a Grand Slam any time soon?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Out of interest, would you see Dasha as a chance of winning a Grand Slam any time soon?

No, for two reasons. Firstly, if you're a scrapper, you have to be consistent to be successful. She's a long way from consistent: her best and worst are poles apart and made worse by her emotional fluctuation on court. Secondly, to win slams you need easy points. You can't scrap for two weeks straight, beat the best day after day and still be in peak physical form by the second Saturday. You just can't do it anymore; the game is too physical. Dasha just doesn't have any way to get easy points unless she plays with no margin for error. Unfortunately she doesn't have enough weapons.

I really enjoy watching her and think she can hover around the top 15-20 if a few things go right for her, but a slam is out of the question unless she improves considerably in my opinion. To win one she needs a heavier ball and greater consistency and neither of those things have improved enough over the past 12-18 months.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

As an aside on Dasha, Ferrer is the guy she should be watching a lot of. Prone to pushing for a lot of his early career he slowly developed into a very aggressive scrapper who got enough easy points to charge up the rankings and consistently play in the second week of slams.

 

[Hawkas1988]

Agree with the women's being so weak the past few years. You look back in the early to mid 2000's you had some amazing top end talent that went with Serena. Venus, Henin, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Davenport etc.

The girls of this generation even the ones that have won a slam or 2 can't be considered alongside these girls. For example Mauresmo, Kerber and Kvitova have all won 2 slams. However I see Mauresmo in a way different league than those other 2.

Looking back the early to mid 2000's had some great women competing at the top. These days the top 10 feel so weak.

Is this a fair call?

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[JackNah_8]

Agree with the women's being so weak the past few years. You look back in the early to mid 2000's you had some amazing top end talent that went with Serena. Venus, Henin, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Davenport etc.

The girls of this generation even the ones that have won a slam or 2 can't be considered alongside these girls. For example Mauresmo, Kerber and Kvitova have all won 2 slams. However I see Mauresmo in a way different league than those other 2.

Looking back the early to mid 2000's had some great women competing at the top. These days the top 10 feel so weak.

Is this a fair call?

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Agreed, IMO overall the women's competition has been average over the last few years. We had a few random GS winners but that's about it, most are too inconsistent and none of them are close to Serena - she still dominates.

I miss the early -mid 2000s we had some good talented players, as you mentioned.

 

[The Speaker]

I see no mention in this thread of even the potential of the most obvious answer.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

The game has changed. Turns out 35-year-olds who've missed 6 months now have all the advantages.

That is the only possible explanation for the likes of Raonic, Dmitrov and Nishikori not breaking through. It's certainly not because they're not good enough. It's because the game has changed. Right, The City Boyz?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

How come Demosthenes or Belnakor haven't come past to talk about how 35-year-olds have all the advantages these days?

 

[Broar]

The game has changed. Turns out 35-year-olds who've missed 6 months now have all the advantages.

That is the only possible explanation for the likes of Raonic, Dmitrov and Nishikori not breaking through. It's certainly not because they're not good enough. It's because the game has changed. Right, The City Boyz?

Well I'm very disappointed in Raonic I really thought he was on the cusp of a GS but after watching him struggle against RBA & then get battered by Nadal he seems a long way off now.

Nishikori again struggled with injury.

Dimitrov was superb though, at the start of the year I don't think anyone would've tipped him to make the semis. Gives him a good platform to build on after a couple of rough few years.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Well I'm very disappointed in Raonic I really thought he was on the cusp of a GS but after watching him struggle against RBA & then get battered by Nadal he seems a long way off now.

Nishikori again struggled with injury.

Dimitrov was superb though, at the start of the year I don't think anyone would've tipped him to make the semis. Gives him a good platform to build on after a couple of rough few years.

Looking at the Australian Open, which of the following most plausibly explains the inability of anyone younger than 28 to win anything of note?

- they've had no chance because other players are too dominant, as advanced by The City Boyz
- the game has changed and players in their 30s now have all the advantages, as advanced by Demosthenes and Belnakor
- the younger crop simply haven't been good enough

Given Djokovic and Murray got bundled out early, surely it's hard to argue the first. And given the eventual winner was 35 and had just endured a six-month layoff, surely it's hard to argue the second.

 

[Belnakor]

How come Demosthenes or Belnakor haven't come past to talk about how 35-year-olds have all the advantages these days?

Federer is a freak and his endurance is still good - just like Nadals EPO endurance. The whole game was played from the base line.

 

[Broar]

Looking at the Australian Open, which of the following most plausibly explains the inability of anyone younger than 28 to win anything of note?

- they've had no chance because other players are too dominant, as advanced by The City Boyz
- the game has changed and players in their 30s now have all the advantages, as advanced by Demosthenes and Belnakor
- the younger crop simply haven't been good enough

Given Djokovic and Murray got bundled out early, surely it's hard to argue the first. And given the eventual winner was 35 and had just endured a six-month layoff, surely it's hard to argue the second.

Re point 1, you really can't dismiss the fact that we've had three of the greatest tennis players of all time in Fed, Nadal & Djokovic playing in the one era with two of those being in there prime during that time.

You only have to compare their record to Murray's to see how dominant they've been.

Hell only a handful of players from the previous generation/there own ever won slams once Fed & Co got going.

Re point 3, you only have to look at this years Aus Open to see that's the case.

Hell just look at Del Potro 28 years old so just outside of this age bracket, Won a GS at 20 years old, Runner up at the World Tour Finals & a Bronze medalist all done well before the age of 27 and was battling injuries at time!

Then basically has a couple of years off from injury comes back at nowhere near his peak self and goes onto achieve more in this 9 months time-frame than this current crop combined. So the opportunity has been there for these guys.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Federer is a freak and his endurance is still good - just like Nadals EPO endurance. The whole game was played from the base line.

Nah the game has changed.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Re point 1, you really can't dismiss the fact that we've had three of the greatest tennis players of all time in Fed, Nadal & Djokovic playing in the one era with two of those being in there prime during that time.

You only have to compare their record to Murray's to see how dominant they've been.

Hell only a handful of players from the previous generation/there own ever won slams once Fed & Co got going.

So what about Wawrinka?

Is he one of the greatest of all time?

If not, how did he win 3 grand slam titles?

You guys keep responding in a way that suggests you haven't considered the most obvious counter arguments to what you're saying.

Re point 3, you only have to look at this years Aus Open to see that's the case.

Hell just look at Del Potro 28 years old so just outside of this age bracket, Won a GS at 20 years old, Runner up at the World Tour Finals & a Bronze medalist all done well before the age of 27 and was battling injuries at time!

Then basically has a couple of years off from injury comes back at nowhere near his peak self and goes onto achieve more in this 9 months time-frame than this current crop combined. So the opportunity has been there for these guys.

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what argument this advances.

 

[Broar]

I'm saying its down to a combination of having to compete against 3 of the greatest tennis players of all time and clearly not being good enough, as the opportunities have been there as seen by the success of Del Potro & Wawrinka.

 

[The Speaker]

EPO endurance

Here's the answer to the question.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Another strong showing by the younger brigade at Indian Wells. The City Boyz liked it.

 

[The City Boyz]

Another strong showing by the younger brigade at Indian Wells. The City Boyz liked it.

It actually was. Kyrgios beat Djokovic, Carreno made the semis, Thiem made the quarterfinals. Nishioka beat T-Berd and nearly beat Stan, Sock made the semis, etc.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

It actually was. Kyrgios beat Djokovic, Carreno made the semis, Thiem made the quarterfinals. Nishioka beat T-Berd and nearly beat Stan, Sock made the semis, etc.

This is now considered a strong showing.

Nishikori "nearly beat" Wawrinka and that's evidence of something?

 

[BobbyMorri]

Big "what if" about Kyrgios. I wish we got to see him v Fed.

on the female side, Vesnina+Kuznetsova are 30 and 35. so no joy there.

Still, French Kiki and Pliskova are both early/mid 20's and made the semis. You think Pliskova(1992) is closest to punching through the for the 1990's brigade(outside Muguruza(1993) and Kvitova(who was born in 1990)) this coming year.

 

[JackNah_8]

Over 30s are doing well this year.

 

[The City Boyz]

This is now considered a strong showing.

Nishikori "nearly beat" Wawrinka and that's evidence of something?

Nishioka, not Nishikori.

 

[JackNah_8]

Big "what if" about Kyrgios. I wish we got to see him v Fed.

on the female side, Vesnina+Kuznetsova are 30 and 35. so no joy there.

Still, French Kiki and Pliskova are both early/mid 20's and made the semis. You think Pliskova(1992) is closest to punching through the for the 1990's brigade(outside Muguruza(1993) and Kvitova(who was born in 1990)) this coming year.

It's a shame we didnt see the Fed v Kyrgios match. Kyrgios was playing well in this tournament and I think he could've challenged Federer.

As for the women, the more experienced players are stepping up and know how to win big matches