No time to be Timid. Expand and crush the other spectator sports

[Pessimistic]

I have heard this a few times..
Very interesting times indeed, but while other sports are putting a 'sobrave' face on it, they are cracking financially behind closed doors.

Time for the AFL to put pedal to metal and go for complete domination? they are relatively good financially. 2-4 more teams etc etc

 

[Colonial]

Cut to 16 players on the field and bring in Tassie and Canberra.

 

[Rob]

Never mind that doing what you suggest will require the AFL taking their eye well and truly off the ball, Melbourne could be shut for months, maybe even a year. How about we see what the financial situation is like after all this s**t ends eh?

 

[Pessimistic]

Never mind that doing what you suggest will require the AFL taking their eye well and truly off the ball, Melbourne could be shut for months, maybe even a year. How about we see what the financial situation is like after all this sh*t ends eh?

‘I’m posing the question, Kane Cornes style

 

[kranky al]

‘I’m posing the question, Kane Cornes style

Putting an enormous latex utensil on your head’s a bit over the top for a forum innit?

 

[Walshawk]

Agree.
Old Chinese proverb - Crisis create opportunity.
Time to put the foot down north of the Barassi Line. Union is on death row, and despite onfield improvements, RL is down on ratings 20% compared to AFL in 2020.
More game and engagement in NSW and Qld is the priority. Introduce a 23rd game from 2021 until the new clubs are ready. Play nine neutral games in NSW/Qld. Qld already has Cairnes and Mackay, but we need 10k stadiums in Newcastle, Woolongong, Wagga and Albury. Post COVID recovery will require government spending on major projects so the timing here could be good.
Then, the minute this thing is over, the AFL needs to announce Tassie and Canberra RAMS coming in, same time as reducing players infield to keep the playing standard up and costs down.
Let’s assume a vaccine comes in 18 months.
2022 Announce new clubs for 2025. AFL season goes to 24 matches to increase TV revenue. Each club plays a home promo game in NSW/Qld
2023 GWS to move out of Canberra and play a game in each of Newcastle and Wollongong. Hawks out of Tas and into Canberra.
2024
2025 Sides reduced to 16. Salary cap reduced 10%. New clubs have access to players cut, free agents and draft.
How to keep costs down for new clubs-
Tas has two 20k stadiums. No need to spend here initially, but upgrade one stadium to 25k-27k by 2030 ready for when they make finals
Canberra RAMS
Riverina
Albury
Murrumbidgee (Wagga)
Southern NSW
Play games at Albury, maybe one in Wagga.

 

[Les Malone]

AF is mainly a spectator sport as in people like to go to the game, without going to a game, it is very hard for new people to understand and follow the game, because of the size of the field.

It may be very hard everywhere to get people to go to a game, let alone new people.

 

[speedpeck23]

Happy to bring in Tassie but dont need any more clubs... just expand the profile of the existing clubs. All Victorian clubs should simply play more often in NSW/Qld.....making the existing clubs bigger.. There already are a lot of supporters of Vic teams in north of the Murray... it's about the competition between clubs not having more clubs.

 

[Gigantor]

The AFL doesn't have to do anything really except continue doing what it's doing.
As long as next season is not a complete write off, the AFL will continue to earn more broadcast revenue and more sponsorship revenue.
If things return to normal by this time next year, you can throw in massive gate receipts and membership revenue, although the latter was not affected this year.
One could well argue that a repeat of this season next season would see even greater separation, even without attendances, because AFL members will continue buying memberships.
AFL fans put their money where their mouth is, always have, these situations accentuate that advantage.
If things get so bad that the AFL hurts a bit financially, it probably means curtains for other sports.

 

[Quolls19]

have posted this elsewhere in error

Afl expansion

22 teams.

Each play 22 games.

23 rounds with a bye for each side

Each team plays each other once, alternating home and away, 21 games.

An extra rival/derby round each year, 22 games in total.



Prime expansion teams.

Tasmania: home games split between Hobart and Launceston. The extra home game (11/2=5.5) could be played in Auckland or alternate each season)

Canberra/Wodonga/Albury: GWS should play all home games in Western Sydney if they want to establish a following in Western Sydney.

Northern Australia Nomads, home games split evenly between Darwin, Townsville, Cairns with one game in Alice Springs, one other alternating between Rockhampton, Mackay and Port Moresby.



4th expansion team out of

New Zealand (very, unlikely and recent events shows the risks with international competitions).

Newcastle

North Sydney

Wollongong

WA no 3

SA no 3

Sunshine Coast



14 players, 3 interchange. (Now 22 (18 + 4)

30 main list, 8 rookie list*. (Now 40 & 8)

4 delisted or undrafted players*.

4 foreign born development player*.

*rookie list for new teams can be used as a protected development squad for local players for a limited time.



Developing states 2 other sports players max 3 year on not included in salary cap/list.

Total listed players currently is 40, leaves 10 players per team excess, a total of 180.

180 players divided by 4 new teams = 45 current players available

for selection for each new team.



Salary Cap and AFL allocations reduced accordingly.

Reduction in AFL allocation will cover the players cost of the new teams.

Introduce a Standard Salary System.

Retain the match payment so every player gets the same match payment per game, currently $5,000 I think, so that a player who plays every game (22 per season) receives a season amount of $110,000 on top of the standard salary.

Standard salaries are based on a % of the salary cap so that they are adjusted in accordance with cap increases.

Standard salaries are paid on a “tiered” basis.



Tier 1 would be the highest paid player, the example below is a 9 tiered system + 6 draftee levels as is the current AFL methodology.



The player numbers shown are just for demonstration and can be altered as long as the salary cap is maintained.

[TD valign="top"]Level[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]Players[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]Salary[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]Total[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]Level 1[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]1[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]700,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]700,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]Level 2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]4[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]600,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]2,400,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]Level 3[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]4[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]500,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]2,000,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]Level 4[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]450,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]900,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]Level 5[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]400,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]800,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]Level 6[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]1[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]350,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]350,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]Level 7[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]1[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]300,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]300,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]Level 8[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]1[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]200,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]200,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]Level 9[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]150,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]300,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]D1-2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]100,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]200,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]D2-2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]95,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]190,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]D3-2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]90,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]180,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]D1-1[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]90,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]180,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]D2-1[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]85,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]170,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]D3-1[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]2[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]80,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]160,000[/TD]

[TD valign="top"]Total[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]30[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]4,190,000[/TD]
[TD valign="top"]9,030,000[/TD]

Long service bonus for players paid to players remaining at the same club for designated periods. Say 25% for 8 & 9 years service, and 50% for 10 year plus players. Long service bonus payments are not included in the salary cap.

The salary cap for 2022 is currently listed as $13,273,500 per club. Subtract the match payments of $2,420,000 per season leaves a base salary total of $10,853,000.

The match payment per player $5,000) remains the same, but the per season amount reduces to $2,090,000.

The remaining cap amount is reduced by the % of the reduced playing list, being a little generous say 20% (actually 25%, ie:40 to 30). So the balance of the cap available for the standard salary is $9,130,000 with TPP equaling $11,220,000.

For the pedantic I do realise that some figures have been rounded, but not significantly.



For a 32 player list the excess is, 8 x 18= 144/4= 36 players per new team.



New teams, 36 on list x 1st 2 years

Then 34 x next 2 years.

With adjusted salary cap based on level 8 and 9.



Games now 18 teams x 22(.5) rounds = 198 games.

22 teams x 22 (.5) rounds = 242 games.

.5 means byes in the middle of the season.

11 games per round

1 Thursday

1/2 Friday

3/4Saturday

3/4 Sunday

1 Monday

Increase in TV rights to supplement establishing the new clubs and extra travel costs.



If the AFL can establish itself as an equal or near equal in NSW the TV rights will again increase, not too far away from equality in Queensland.



There are a number of new players in TV industry, FTA and Pay, and more coming, some are heavily invested in sport in the USA and I believe they are waiting for the opportunity to get their share of our sport especially the major 2.



AFL is the major football code in Oz but having a bigger, well managed, footprint in the northern states will increase its broadcast value significantly.



Onwards and upwards.



And why 14?

Grounds and fitness are far better than in the past, attacking football is diminishing surprisingly because the players are quicker, less players, less congestion. Dump the flanks.



Other rules

Backward kicks, marks only count in the attacking sides forward 50.



No stacks on the mill. Only 1 player from each team to be involved in a ground tackle. (When one player is grounded, any part of their body bar feet and hands) or on 1 player per tackle.



Last touch out of bounds free kick.

Out of bounds kicked on the full, free kick plus 10/15 metre penalty.



Ruck possession rule reinstated.



Enforce the current rules re no contact 5 yard and out of play provisions.



Just an “out there” thought, when the defence forces a ball through the posts, 3 points when through the goals and 2 points when through the behinds. A bit hard to manage.

 

[juss]

I have heard this a few times..
Very interesting times indeed, but while other sports are putting a 'sobrave' face on it, they are cracking financially behind closed doors.

Time for the AFL to put pedal to metal and go for complete domination? they are relatively good financially. 2-4 more teams etc etc

I never, ever, ever see why people think one sport having a monopoly is a good thing.

Sport is for entertainment, why on earth would you want to crush other elite level sporting codes and reduce the options for people to do/watch other things because there is only one elite level sporting code? This code can now run the game however the hell it wants and there is no real competition to challenge it and keep it offering a competitive pricepoint/service/experience, etc.

A variety of sport and entertainment options is absolutely crucial for the Australian sporting landscape. AFL is at no risk, trying to "crush" other sports and damage all the sport and participation efforts at the grassroots level and give kids less options because there is only one elite sporting code to aspire to is a horrible idea for the sports landscape and future population.

The Australian sporting landscape is all the better for having elite level codes and pathways in all of Aussie Rules, Rugby League, Rugby Union, Basketball, Soccer, Cricket, Tennis and all the other sports we participate in. It's perfectly easy to support, watch and have multiple spectator sports coincide and exist together. The AFL is always very likely to be number 1.

What a stupid idea that is only detrimental to Australian sport.

 

[Pessimistic]

Apparently the a League just had its grand final. Who knew?

Might not need to try too hard to squish them. Soccer nerds went back to their X Boxes

Oh and Ill be rewarding Queensland with a third team (playing some games in NT) as well as AFL grand final. Announce it in the week before Gil.

 

[Dogs till i die]

Of all the ideas in this thread, the one I thought may be worth consideration is a 23rd game for all teams in a neutral venue a "celebrating the game" round. 11 home games, 11 away plus 1 neutral. With a view of growing the game, we should go to Cairns, Darwin, Alice, Canberra, Tassie, WA and SA regional etc.

I know we already go to most of these venues but change the teams around year to year and add some interest and variety.

 

[Gigantor]

Of all the ideas in this thread, the one I thought may be worth consideration is a 23rd game for all teams in a neutral venue a "celebrating the game" round. 11 home games, 11 away plus 1 neutral. With a view of growing the game, we should go to Cairns, Darwin, Alice, Canberra, Tassie, WA and SA regional etc.

I know we already go to most of these venues but change the teams around year to year and add some interest and variety.

It's not a bad thought.
The only thing I would say is that pressure is constantly put on the AFL for fewer rounds rather than more.
More rounds generally translates to more pay for players, which is not feasible in current circumstances (unless the AFL turned the argument round to justifying maintaining current pay levels).

 

[werdna78]

If they can get the costs down and keep them down, there is an opportunity to expand.
I'd be keeping the same teams in Melbourne and putting 4 new teams.

Tasmania, Northern Territory, Newcastle and either Cairns or Canberra.

They are probably all too small, but you would have all of Australia's main population bases covered.

 

[Pessimistic]

Wondering if WA or Qld might get reward for providing finance and hubs respectively with another team?

 

[Colonial]

Tassie and Canberra and then we are fine.

Can play each other once and have a bye.

 

[dundee61]

Putting an enormous latex utensil on your head’s a bit over the top for a forum innit?

The AFL should be brought down and replaced by a new governing body

The covid debacle is the last thrashings of a dying beast. the fact that they have mismanaged this season so badly and are dragging out the inevitable need for teams to leave victoria till the outbreak is contained when it was clear weeks ago is the icing on the cake...

www.bigfooty.com

Might want to take a bit of self notice

 

[jatz14]

I never, ever, ever see why people think one sport having a monopoly is a good thing.

Sport is for entertainment, why on earth would you want to crush other elite level sporting codes and reduce the options for people to do/watch other things because there is only one elite level sporting code? This code can now run the game however the hell it wants and there is no real competition to challenge it and keep it offering a competitive pricepoint/service/experience, etc.

A variety of sport and entertainment options is absolutely crucial for the Australian sporting landscape. AFL is at no risk, trying to "crush" other sports and damage all the sport and participation efforts at the grassroots level and give kids less options because there is only one elite sporting code to aspire to is a horrible idea for the sports landscape and future population.

The Australian sporting landscape is all the better for having elite level codes and pathways in all of Aussie Rules, Rugby League, Rugby Union, Basketball, Soccer, Cricket, Tennis and all the other sports we participate in. It's perfectly easy to support, watch and have multiple spectator sports coincide and exist together. The AFL is always very likely to be number 1.

What a stupid idea that is only detrimental to Australian sport.

I doubt crush was meant in that sense, in creating a monopoly, and destroying other leagues.

Making AFL more prominent in NSW/Qld on the other hand.

This doesn't need the destruction of the NRL.

It needs AFL to be prominent enough that people grow up knowing both sports.

Imagine a world where most NRL supporters also had an AFL team.

Sport is partly zero sum, and partly not.

Success of AFL in Sydney would cost NRL a bit. They may lose some support and some sponsorship, but most growth in AFL wouldn't impact NRL.

So, it isn't crushing NRL. It's growing AFL, and letting the NRL look after itself. It isn't the AFLs job to weigh the impact of it's acts on other leagues.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[juss]

I doubt crush was meant in that sense, in creating a monopoly, and destroying other leagues.

Making AFL more prominent in NSW/Qld on the other hand.

This doesn't need the destruction of the NRL.

It needs AFL to be prominent enough that people grow up knowing both sports.

Imagine a world where most NRL supporters also had an AFL team.

Sport is partly zero sum, and partly not.

Success of AFL in Sydney would cost NRL a bit. They may lose some support and some sponsorship, but most growth in AFL wouldn't impact NRL.

So, it isn't crushing NRL. It's growing AFL, and letting the NRL look after itself. It isn't the AFLs job to weigh the impact of it's acts on other leagues.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

Agree and that's a fair post, but overall holistically the Australian sporting landscape is better for multiple options and codes and elite pathways of a variety of sports for both partcipants and spectators.

 

[Walshawk]

Of all the ideas in this thread, the one I thought may be worth consideration is a 23rd game for all teams in a neutral venue a "celebrating the game" round. 11 home games, 11 away plus 1 neutral. With a view of growing the game, we should go to Cairns, Darwin, Alice, Canberra, Tassie, WA and SA regional etc.

I know we already go to most of these venues but change the teams around year to year and add some interest and variety.

That is easily done.
Then, once Tassie comes have the opportunity for Hawks and North games to be played elsewhere. I would rebrand GSW to Western Sydney and remove them from Canberra. Fix up grounds in Newcastle and Woolongong so they can play a game there during the Easter Show when Showgrounds unavailable. Saints to play three games in Nth Qld, Hawks and Canberra and North in Albury. Dees to play the NT games and all SUNS games in Qld.

 

[Colonial]

That is easily done.
Then, once Tassie comes have the opportunity for Hawks and North games to be played elsewhere. I would rebrand GSW to Western Sydney and remove them from Canberra. Fix up grounds in Newcastle and Woolongong so they can play a game there during the Easter Show when Showgrounds unavailable. Saints to play three games in Nth Qld, Hawks and Canberra and North in Albury. Dees to play the NT games and all SUNS games in Qld.

All for Canberra getting a side but no need to change the Giants name from Greater Western Sydney.

 

[Supercoach Bargain]

I like the theory, but it won't happen, yet.
The media rights have flatlined and may fall further. If channel 7 or 9 decide not to carry live sport that will mean some sport will struggle.
This includes foxtel, their big offers are also from days gone.
While the AFL has good crowd income, it is non-existant at the minute. this is temporary (hopefully).
The league has also used the credit card to get through COVID. They won't be committing money until the card is re-treaded.

 

[Walshawk]

All for Canberra getting a side but no need to change the Giants name from Greater Western Sydney.

No one has ever said the words ‘Greater Western Sydney‘. If they shortened to Western Sydney that is what they would be called.
‘GWS’ is a nothing name.

 

[telsor]

" My centre is giving way, my right is retreating, excellent situation, I am attacking. " - Ferdinand Foch, 1914.