Society/Culture Nobody has anything new to say about God.

[RupieDupie]

Yes but evolution( science) doesn’t make the main stream Christian theory of creation mute.

So as we were. The mystery of our existence

Which part of Christian theology? If you state that a God has created the universe, that is not a concept limited to Christianity.

 

[Boston tiger]

Which part of Christian theology? If you state that a God has created the universe, that is not a concept limited to Christianity.

Probably not . I’d say there would be others Jews and Muslims at a guess.

 

[RupieDupie]

Probably not . I’d say there would be others Jews and Muslims at a guess.

Ah! But you see what you've done?

You've reduced Christianity to only, "God created the universe..." and that's it, there's nothing else more to Christianity?

 

[M Malice]

Still waiting for something new.

 

[Procrastinator35]

But wouldn't that make all the middle part, life, redundant? And what if a person starts from a position of materialism, like Siddhartha, would it be appropriate for him to go back home?

Not at all....The journey itself is the point....As Socrates notes; Life is a preparation for death....The Buddhist notion of the wheel of life & death.

The philosopher poet always keeps this at the forefront of their mind throughout the journey, so as to maintain focus upon what really matters.....Hamlet & the Skull....Thus keeping to the straight & narrow.

 

[Boston tiger]

Still waiting for something new.

Let’s just solve this mystery first hey

 

[Boston tiger]

Ah! But you see what you've done?

You've reduced Christianity to only, "God created the universe..." and that's it, there's nothing else more to Christianity?

Ok

 

[Total Power]

That's a good point.
If we are eternal,why do we need to learn,shouldn't we have abilities beyond childhood etc?
Are we a clean slate with every one of these apparent embodiments or as pro puts it,vessels?
Why don't we carry over the knowledge attained from previous incantations?

"You" , as in "your" essence, is universal, it is the "universe", you (by you i go not mean your impermanent "self" you identify yourself with) do not need to learn as you are "knowledge". Gnosis teaches that you lose all psychological aggregates which constitutes that which you currently identify yourself with.

That is, chelseacarlton, Carlton supporter, business wizard, owner of xxxx car, degree in whatever, son of Mr chelsea & Mrs chelsea, likes posting on BigFooty, travelling and whatever other impermanent thing you like (or dislike) that you associate with.

Gnosis teaches that what is not lost is your "Essence". To say that this is a permanent "self" is incorrect. The Essence is The Consciousness, which forms that part of consciousness trapped within the "I" or ego.

now here's where it gets tricky; the second underlined reference to "I" or "ego", does not constitute the psychological aggregates which die with you (eg. chelsea, carlton Supporter). This is of vital importance to understand. What your current and past psychological aggregates create through association (ie. thought and attachment) is Karma.

 

[Total Power]

But wouldn't that make all the middle part, life, redundant? And what if a person starts from a position of materialism, like Siddhartha, would it be appropriate for him to go back home?

The answer is a clear yes.

Acting the way "God" (and i use "god" term loosely, as i don't want to associate myself with organised religion) wants you to act is revealed through meditation, as exhibited in the story of Siddharta Gautama's awakening (eg. the Eightfold Path).

"God" is in essence a concept utilised by us to explain the difference between our imperfect spiritual state and the perfect state of being/spirit.

 

[chelseacarlton]

But of course I believe it....The point is that the essence of who we are has nothing to do with the journey or knowledge of externals....Which is not to say that the journey doesn't count, or that it doesn't necesarrily test us almost entirely....But that is the entire point of the journey....The fact is that many people do become lost within & without throughout that journey. And many people perish & pay with their lives in doing so....But the wisdom of knowing thyself & never getting lost along the journey is the very center & fulcrum of our being. Our moral compass & character if you will.

That's the entire gist of the Homeric poems....Of a coming back home to oneself, once the lesson of not investing one's true self in externals is finally brought home to bear.

Young men are externally oriented toward conquest, ambition, in seeking their fame & fortune....Such is the lesson of the Illiad, or as Dylan notes/ of men who are constantly fighting to be born....But the coming back home to oneself is the mature work that is the Odyssey....Only once Odysseus is stripped of all false illusions, garbs & ego of the external world, can he finally make it back home to himself....The 7 veils of the Goddess.

The true philosopher & poet never loses sight of this truth & vision so deeply implanted & ingrained within the kernel of our psychic being & existence at childhood....Indeed, it is that very essence of the knowledge of the muses that separates the philosopher poet from laymen....That our bearing & being as a newborn is exactly who we are & the closest we shall ever get to pure being, vision & wisdom....Of a lens untrammeled by the vicissitudes of the chaos of life....The lesson of the Christ Child/of a being qua being.

What an over stimulated educated high felutant magesterium of solipsistic supernatural philosophical derision you have of the true path for the human condition,all fed on a diet of self worth,destiny and submission to a creator diety force!
Your chosen few!
I darnt believe in narfing m8!
But,I do believe your views are not only questionable,that they should be openly castigated and challenged in the world where we can tast and calculate them!?
I do enjoy you being able though,to post and all!
Did you Vote YES Procrastinator35?

 

[chelseacarlton]

"You" , as in "your" essence, is universal, it is the "universe", you (by you i go not mean your impermanent "self" you identify yourself with) do not need to learn as you are "knowledge". Gnosis teaches that you lose all psychological aggregates which constitutes that which you currently identify yourself with.

That is, chelseacarlton, Carlton supporter, business wizard, owner of xxxx car, degree in whatever, son of Mr chelsea & Mrs chelsea, likes posting on BigFooty, travelling and whatever other impermanent thing you like (or dislike) that you associate with.

Gnosis teaches that what is not lost is your "Essence". To say that this is a permanent "self" is incorrect. The Essence is The Consciousness, which forms that part of consciousness trapped within the "I" or ego.

now here's where it gets tricky; the second underlined reference to "I" or "ego", does not constitute the psychological aggregates which die with you (eg. chelsea, carlton Supporter). This is of vital importance to understand. What your current and past psychological aggregates create through association (ie. thought and attachment) is Karma.

Nope!
I vehemently disagree!
My problem is that the deists put the invisible before the visible
I don't care about the self,the anointed,the believers etc etc
I care about what is true!
If something merely adds up and we all agree it does,it most likely!
The same rules apply,regardless of consciousness or meditation on a ******* rock soloing off our suns horizon over Callisto.
Put your ideas of the natural or supernatural in words with experiment,an alternative of falsibilty or it's not worth pursuing!
I needn't say more!

 

[Total Power]

Nope!
I vehemently disagree!
My problem is that the deists put the invisible before the visible
I don't care about the self,the anointed,the believers etc etc
I care about what is true!
If something merely adds up and we all agree it does,it most likely!
The same rules apply,regardless of consciousness or meditation on a ******* rock soloing off our suns horizon over Callisto.
Put your ideas of the natural or supernatural in words with experiment,an alternative of falsibilty or it's not worth pursuing!
I needn't say more!

We grossly overrate our technological knowledge at this moment in time. Our current, seemingly advanced, knowledge base, is in my opinion the modern day equivalent of the Earth being the centre of the Universe.

We demand to be able to be shown something that our primary senses can observe. The reality is though, that we are not as advanced as we think. Me providing you with a magnifying glass and asking you to show me an atom isn't going to happen. Similarly, we are generally aware that subatomic energies exist, yet can't observe them physically (if an atom was the size of the solar system, a string, assuming they exist as thought, is the equivalent size of a tree!).

Conversely, we as bodies are made up of all the stuff that forms the Universe. Intimitely connected to both seen and unseen. Known and unknown. As such, we are the only instruments currently sophisticated enough to experience the full spectrum of energies.

Unfortunately that means all knowledge obtained is subjective. This means that all experiences can be dismissed by those who want to do so, as being inadmissible, due to lack of objectively verifiable proof.

I don't "curse science". I quite like it. It's a massive part of why we are here!

My exception in this thread came from your claim that science is interested in the "truth", but as Bohm said, you can only experience it in finite ways by observing it. From a gnostic perspective, one cannot experience truth via intellectual observation, which is why the intellect needs to be rested through transcendental meditation.

 

[M Malice]

We grossly overrate our technological knowledge at this moment in time. Our current, seemingly advanced, knowledge base, is in my opinion the modern day equivalent of the Earth being the centre of the Universe.

We demand to be able to be shown something that our primary senses can observe. The reality is though, that we are not as advanced as we think. Me providing you with a magnifying glass and asking you to show me an atom isn't going to happen. Similarly, we are generally aware that subatomic energies exist, yet can't observe them physically (if an atom was the size of the solar system, a string, assuming they exist as thought, is the equivalent size of a tree!).

Conversely, we as bodies are made up of all the stuff that forms the Universe. Intimitely connected to both seen and unseen. Known and unknown. As such, we are the only instruments currently sophisticated enough to experience the full spectrum of energies.

Unfortunately that means all knowledge obtained is subjective. This means that all experiences can be dismissed by those who want to do so, as being inadmissible, due to lack of objectively verifiable proof.

I don't "curse science". I quite like it. It's a massive part of why we are here!

My exception in this thread came from your claim that science is interested in the "truth", but as Bohm said, you can only experience it in finite ways by observing it. From a gnostic perspective, one cannot experience truth via intellectual observation, which is why the intellect needs to be rested through transcendental meditation.

Couldn't agree more with the bolded TP, if we could fast forward a thousand or even a hundred years I would be very confident that we in this time will be looked on as quite backward re technological and "spiritual" knowledge.

I am sure the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Romans etc thought they were the zenith of civilization.

 

[Procrastinator35]

It's high time that both jason pm & chelseacarlton put an end to their struggles in learning to let go & surrendering to their fates.....Come back into the fold ye pair of lost sheep....Redemption is but a step away for you both....Let go of this ego delusion once & for all ye pair of tortured souls.

 

[Total Power]

What an over stimulated educated high felutant magesterium of solipsistic supernatural philosophical derision you have of the true path for the human condition,all fed on a diet of self worth,destiny and submission to a creator diety force!
Your chosen few!
[/USER]?

What delusion? old mate? Are you associating him with the Catholics or organised religion? This is a fact that we are controlled by the unconscious. Even science agrees.

In a new paper published in the journal Behavioral and Brain Sciences, a group of researchers led by associate professor of psychology Ezequiel Morsella of San Francisco State University, took on the somewhat narrower question of exactly what consciousness is—and came up with a decidedly bleaker view: It's pretty much nothing at all. Never mind the five characters controlling your thoughts, you barely control them. It's the unconscious that's really in charge.

http://time.com/3937351/consciousness-unconsciousness-brain/

The consciousness is a very high part of ourselves. The part that loves [and usually we don't love correctly in life hence the problems associated with it -we unfortunatley love from the unconsciousness] everyone, that comprehends everything in the Universe and lives moment to moment in unadulterated ecstasy.

So the unconsciousness, the part we are usually live in, basically has two parts. The part we can live in, think with and a deeper part which we cannot access [unless we study and work hard] which is very disgusting, monstrous and foul. It is very heavy stuff that is in our mind and we probably couldn't handle it.

Esoteric studies looks to change the "unconscious" into "fully conscious". This is scientific. Nothing i said above or in this thread goes against the notion of science, but not materialists. These are two different things.

So yeah, we actually live in the unconscoius or ego most of the time and this is why we suffer so much, why the world is full of wars and starving people in Africa as the minds of all reflect the world we live in.

The consciousness is a very different, almost abstract ideal to us. The closest that regular people get to this would be the birth of a child and this would be nowhere near the power or beauty of it unfettered. The love, the beauty, the charity, humility, temperance, etc. The unconsciousness is the hate, fear, pride, envy, greed, boredom, skepticism that we all possess and which drive us to misery.

If you are interested in looking at your unconscious, spend 10 minutes of silence and just watch the thoughts float into your mind and see what they are. You will find you won't be able to stop them coming in. I guess the question is, if you can't stop thoughts coming into your mind, then do you control you mind? We may also notice that your mind is not oneness but a million different thoughts and ideas all trying to reach your conscoiusness and control it.

Here is more:

The leading scientists are saying it too

Of course brain activity is automated and, as you say, runs "under the hood of conscious awareness", but this doesn't mean that we are automatons or that we are largely unconscious of the reasons we do things. If, as you put it in Incognito, "the conscious you is the smallest bit-player in the brain" to the point that even our most important and personal decisions – such as choice of spouse, where to live, or occupation – are directed by brain mechanisms of which we are unaware, how would you have become sufficiently aware of this unawareness to write about it in your book Incognito (which incidentally shows little evidence of having been written by an automaton)?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/apr/29/neuroscience-david-eagleman-raymond-tallis

 

[M Malice]

It's high time that both jason pm & chelseacarlton put an end to their struggles in learning to let go & surrendering to their fates.....Come back into the fold ye pair of lost sheep....Redemption is but a step away for you both....Let go of this ego delusion once & for all ye pair of tortured souls.

I think you have me confused with somebody else P35, I am very open to as yet unknown possibilities although before I profess a belief in something I need either personal experience or verifiable evidence of it to jump head long into said belief.

In saying that I have posted numerous times that I have zero belief in the possibility of the existence of an omnipresent, judgmental, participatory creator who provides a residence for our souls on physical death ie. institutionalized religious belief.

 

[Total Power]

I agree with jason! he is a terrific bloke

thanks for our chat too.

 

[RupieDupie]

Not at all....The journey itself is the point....As Socrates notes; Life is a preparation for death....The Buddhist notion of the wheel of life & death.

The philosopher poet always keeps this at the forefront of their mind throughout the journey, so as to maintain focus upon what really matters.....Hamlet & the Skull....Thus keeping to the straight & narrow.

Hmmm, you seem to have gone back on your previous post, it is like you are playing good cop, bad cop with your own argument. This one is the good cop, growth and change - evolution!

 

[RupieDupie]

The answer is a clear yes.

Acting the way "God" (and i use "god" term loosely, as i don't want to associate myself with organised religion) wants you to act is revealed through meditation, as exhibited in the story of Siddharta Gautama's awakening (eg. the Eightfold Path).

"God" is in essence a concept utilised by us to explain the difference between our imperfect spiritual state and the perfect state of being/spirit.

Yes, a personal God I can handle, each person can follow their own path.

There are those online competitions that are set-up whereby a participant has to find a way to predict one to several responses utilising a series of data. Apparently the best algorithm to use is a random forest walk.

To diverge even further, if a child is lost in the middle of a forest and only one person goes to find the child they have a low probability of finding the child compared to hundreds of thousands of people, unless, all of the hundreds of thousands of people follow the same path, then the probability is equal.

But there are many lost souls in the forest, yet billions of people are still travelling the same tired path in search of them.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Hmmm, you seem to have gone back on your previous post, it is like you are playing good cop, bad cop with your own argument. This one is the good cop, growth and change - evolution!

Evolution?.....Never.....Revolution baby.

 

[DraftBalta]

 

[DraftBalta]

Total Power is a delusional Qabalist

 

[Total Power]

Yes, a personal God I can handle, each person can follow their own path.

There are those online competitions that are set-up whereby a participant has to find a way to predict one to several responses utilising a series of data. Apparently the best algorithm to use is a random forest walk.

To diverge even further, if a child is lost in the middle of a forest and only one person goes to find the child they have a low probability of finding the child compared to hundreds of thousands of people, unless, all of the hundreds of thousands of people follow the same path, then the probability is equal.

But there are many lost souls in the forest, yet billions of people are still travelling the same tired path in search of them.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13/14

...and we see that Jesus is talking about something far greater than anything mainstream Christianity talks about today. That "Master Key" is initiation in the Buddhist/Gnostic sense. Enlightenment through meditation, and elimination of all psychological defects/attachments.

 

[RupieDupie]

Evolution?.....Never.....Revolution baby.

You can't spell Revolution, without "evolution", or alternatively, you can take the revolution out of evolution but you can't take the evolution out of the revolution!

#Evolution4Eva

 

[RupieDupie]

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13/14

...and we see that Jesus is talking about something far greater than anything mainstream Christianity talks about today. That "Master Key" is initiation in the Buddhist/Gnostic sense. Enlightenment through meditation, and elimination of all psychological defects/attachments.

Yes, but this would be paradoxical, a personal journey starts with a rejection of the currently held paradigm, so it shouldn't start with what Matthew, and Buddha, and other folk state, or else a person finds themself following those guys paths and not their own.

The journey will be constrained by physical phenomena and enhanced through observations of the natural world.