Society/Culture Nobody has anything new to say about God.

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boondy

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Which dates? Give details. Be specific. Explain the dates that are incorrect and give the grounds by which you think they are incorrect. Say which ones and how.

Explain how you are right and the consensus of experts in their various historical, literary and scientific fields are incorrect. Because the dates I have provided are from what the experts have concluded from their study of the available evidence.



Like what? Give me examples.

.
How? Show how these prove a global flood.


How? Don't just make the claim. Explain how and why.
The Jews had Geneaology as far back as Adam . So its easy to work out dates from them . As I said your dates do not align with the Jewish historians who actually wrote and kept records . You dont have a paper trail for your dates Roy . As I said 2500 BCE . Egypt Babylon China . Never existed . Satisfied ?
 

Roylion

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Roylion you know your dates are guesses . Maybe Not your guesses but someones .
Dating techniques are procedures used by scientists to determine the age of rocks, fossils, or artifacts. Relative dating methods tell only if one sample is older or younger than another; absolute dating methods provide an approximate date in years.

Relative dating techniques include: Stratigraphy, Seriation, Faunal dating, Pollen dating (palynology)

Absolute dating techniques include: Amino acid racimization, Cation-ratio dating, Thermoluminescence dating (useful for determining the age of pottery), Tree-ring dating (dendrochronology), Radioactive decay dating, Potassium-argon dating, Radiocarbon dating (used to date charcoal, wood, and other biological materials), Uranium series dating, Fission track dating and the molecular clock.

Many of these absolute dating techniques are used in the fields of history, archaeology, geology, paleontology, astronomy and forensic science.

Epigraphy – which is the analysis of inscriptions, via identifying graphemes, clarifying their meanings, classifying their uses according to dates and cultural contexts, and drawing conclusions about the writing and the writers. Numismatics – many coins have the date of their production written on them or their use is specified in the historical record and Palaeography – the study of ancient writing, including the practice of deciphering, reading, and dating historical manuscripts are also used to date human produced artifacts

And of course advances in DNA sequencing technology have enabled the generation of genome-wide sequence data from hundreds of ancient remains, especially those of ancient humans and their extinct archaic relatives providing insights into the history of human groups, their dispersals and interactions, inclduign at what times in history and pre-history these very possibly took place.

They are far more than just 'guesses'.
 

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Roylion

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The Jews had Geneaology as far back as Adam .
These are fictional. The Genesis genealogies post Adam and pre Noah are based heavily on old Sumerian king lists and have a fair bit of invention thrown in for good measure. Manufacturing descent from antiquity is not just confined to the Bible. It's a form of pseudohistory where the ancestry of a ruler is exaggerated or made up entirely to create the illusion of illustrious predecessors. The kings of England, Scotland, France and ancient Roman senatorial families (amongst others) were all traced back to Trojan ancestors.The kings of Ireland, England and Scotland, including the modern-day British royal family, were traced back to Adam and Eve. as well as to to Woden and/or Geat.

Was the Germanic god Woden actually a real ancestor of Queen Elizabeth II, because a genealogy written in the 8th century says it to be so?

Distinguished genealogies served to legitimise a monarch because in most cases the right to rule (including being King of Israel) is passed through inheritance. Showing descent from some august figure was a good way of establishing your own qualities (e.g. being the Messiah) and the right to rule, particularly if your legitimacy is otherwise questioned.

The Biblical Adam very probably comes in part from Alulim (king of Eridu), the first king in the Sumerian King List. He ruled for 28,800 years.

The Sumerian tale of Emesh and Enten reflects the later story found in the Bible of "Cain and Abel".

Enmunderana in the King lists appears to be the forerunner of the Biblical Enoch. In Enoch's case, both Enoch and Enmunderana are the seventh name in a list of patriarchs with long lifespans. Enmendurana is associated with Sippar (which was associated with sun worship) while Enoch's lifespan in the Bible is 365 years which is parallel to the number of days in a solar year.

The genealogy of Jesus Christ outlined in Matthew is also clearly fictional and is little more than a theological construct (i.e largely if not wholly invented) rather than factual history. Matthew's is neatly arranged into three sets of fourteen which is very convenient.The first fourteen is from Abraham to David. The second fourteen spans the Davidic royal line, but omits several generations, such as three consecutive kings of Judah - Ahaziah, Jehoash and Amaziah. These three kings were seen as especially wicked, from the cursed line of Ahab through his daughter Athaliah to the third and fourth generation, so of course wouldn't want to be associated with the 'Messiah'. The Davidic line ends with "Jeconiah and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon". The last fourteen, which appears to span only thirteen generations, connects the father of Jesus, (Joseph) to Zerubbabel through a series of otherwise unknown names. Indeed there are remarkably few names for such a long period.

The total of 42 generations is achieved only by omitting several names, so the choice of three sets of fourteen is deliberate. Fourteen is twice seven symbolizing perfection and covenant, and is also the gematria (numerical value) of the name David.

Matthew and Luke also have vastly different genealogies. 55 generations from Abraham to Jesus in Luke and 42 (14.14.14 as I pointed out above) for Matthew. Did Matthew leave some of the ancestors of Jesus out? Their motive is also clear - the Gospel writers wanted to demonstrate that Jesus qualified as a Messiah partly because of his descent from King David (as per the so-called 'prophecy').

The inference that the Jews had accurate, historical genealogies stretching back to 'Adam' is laughable.

So its easy to work out dates from them .
Largely fantasy. They're completely made up and/or based heavily on ancient king lists.

Even theologians think the dates as calculated via the Bible are rubbish. For example Princeton professor William Henry Green wrote a highly influential article in Bibliotheca Sacra entitled "Primeval Chronology" in which he concluded:
We conclude that the Scriptures furnish no data for a chronological computation prior to the life of Abraham; and that the Mosaic records do not fix and were not intended to fix the precise date either of the Flood or of the creation of the world.
The similarly conservative theologian B. B. Warfield reached the same conclusion in "On The Antiquity and Unity of the Human Race", commenting that "it is precarious in the highest degree to draw chronological inferences from genealogical tables".

As I said your dates do not align with the Jewish historians who actually wrote and kept records .
Rubbish. And which Jewish historians were these? Do I really have to go through how the Torah was assembled yet again.

As I said 2500 BCE . Egypt Babylon China . Never existed . Satisfied ?
You don't know what you're talking about. The archaeological evidence, supported by various dating methods demonstrates otherwise.
 
Last edited:

FredLeDeux

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These are fictional. The Genesis genealogies post Adam and pre Noah are based heavily on old Sumerian king lists and have a fair bit of invention thrown in for good measure. Manufacturing descent from antiquity is not just confined to the Bible. It's a form of pseudohistory where the ancestry of a ruler is exaggerated or made up entirely to create the illusion of illustrious predecessors. The kings of England, Scotland, France and ancient Roman senatorial families (amongst others) were all traced back to Trojan ancestors.The kings of Ireland, England and Scotland, including the modern-day British royal family, were traced back to Adam and Eve. as well as to to Woden and/or Geat.

Was the Germanic god Woden actually a real ancestor of Queen Elizabeth II, because a genealogy written in the 8th century says it to be so?

Distinguished genealogies served to legitimise a monarch because in most cases the right to rule (including being King of Israel) is passed through inheritance. Showing descent from some august figure was a good way of establishing your own qualities (e.g. being the Messiah) and the right to rule, particularly if your legitimacy is otherwise questioned.

The Biblical Adam very probably comes in part from Alulim (king of Eridu), the first king in the Sumerian King List. He ruled for 28,800 years.

The Sumerian tale of Emesh and Enten reflects the later story found in the Bible of "Cain and Abel".

Enmunderana in the King lists appears to be the forerunner of the Biblical Enoch. In Enoch's case, both Enoch and Enmunderana are the seventh name in a list of patriarchs with long lifespans. Enmendurana is associated with Sippar (which was associated with sun worship) while Enoch's lifespan in the Bible is 365 years which is parallel to the number of days in a solar year.

The genealogy of Jesus Christ outlined in Matthew is also clearly fictional and is little more than a theological construct (i.e largely if not wholly invented) rather than factual history. Matthew's is neatly arranged into three sets of fourteen which is very convenient.The first fourteen is from Abraham to David. The second fourteen spans the Davidic royal line, but omits several generations, such as three consecutive kings of Judah - Ahaziah, Jehoash and Amaziah. These three kings were seen as especially wicked, from the cursed line of Ahab through his daughter Athaliah to the third and fourth generation, so of course wouldn't want to be associated with the 'Messiah'. The Davidic line ends with "Jeconiah and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon". The last fourteen, which appears to span only thirteen generations, connects the father of Jesus, (Joseph) to Zerubbabel through a series of otherwise unknown names. Indeed there are remarkably few names for such a long period.

The total of 42 generations is achieved only by omitting several names, so the choice of three sets of fourteen is deliberate. Fourteen is twice seven symbolizing perfection and covenant, and is also the gematria (numerical value) of the name David.

Matthew and Luke also have vastly different genealogies. 55 generations from Abraham to Jesus in Luke and 42 (14.14.14 as I pointed out above) for Matthew. Did Matthew leave some of the ancestors of Jesus out? Their motive is also clear - the Gospel writers wanted to demonstrate that Jesus qualified as a Messiah partly because of his descent from King David (as per the so-called 'prophecy').

The inference that the Jews had accurate, historical genealogies stretching back to 'Adam' is laughable.



Largely fantasy. They're completely made up and/or based heavily on ancient king lists.

Even theologians think the dates as caculated via the Bible are rubbish. For example Princeton professor William Henry Green wrote a highly influential article in Bibliotheca Sacra entitled "Primeval Chronology" in which he concluded:

The similarly conservative theologian B. B. Warfield reached the same conclusion in "On The Antiquity and Unity of the Human Race", commenting that "it is precarious in the highest degree to draw chronological inferences from genealogical tables".



Rubbish. And which Jewish historians were these? Do I really have to go through how the Torah was assembled yet again.



You don't know what you're talking about. The archaeological evidence, supported by various dating methods demonstrates otherwise.
Was Job a real character?

You know, the one from whom you got your patience :D
 

Seeds

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It never ceases to amaze me as to how much activity these "god" threads get. I equate it with gay rights and racism threads. Redundant.

From time to time I look at the numbers of responses and peek inside assuming that there must be something interesting/revelatory going on.

But there never is.
So why did you start this thread? Im sick of god threads flooding up the board as we all know the answer to them. Its likely starting up a thread on the question of what does 1 plus 2 equal?

we need a religious board to dump all these redundant threads in.
 

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