Society/Culture Nobody has anything new to say about God.

[Total Power]

God itself in Religions is generally described as a being or entity of great power and benevolence. Most Religious seem to be something that they devote themselves to, in order to appease to secure their life beyond this one. That would seem to imply they expect a "thing" to have created them, have purpose for them and want them to succeed in gaining their just rewards.

Abrahamic religions you mean? in the heart of Abrahamic religions lies "practice", unfortunately to have a universal saviour any traces of 'practice' were removed to fit an allmightly all powerful all compassionate universal saviour. Adam and eve, david and goliath are nothing but archetypes. These should not be taken literally. If you read the Gnostic gospels, you can clearly see how practice is at the root of Christianity. But as with humans, everything has to be bastardised for the sheep. In eastern religions like Buddhism or Hinduism there is no such thing as 'knowledge', there are only 'methods', which can be used to 'seek' such knowledge. Science is also a method of 'seeking'.

 

[iBeng]

Abrahamic religions you mean? in the heart of Abrahamic religions lies "practice", unfortunately to have a universal saviour any traces of 'practice' were removed to fit an allmightly all powerful all compassionate universal saviour. Adam and eve, david and goliath are nothing but archetypes. These should not be taken literally. If you read the Gnostic gospels, you can clearly see how practice is at the root of Christianity. But as with humans, everything has to be bastardised for the sheep. In eastern religions like Buddhism or Hinduism there is no such thing as 'knowledge', there are only 'methods', which can be used to 'seek' such knowledge. Science is also a method of 'seeking'.

Buddhism and Hinduism are more a way of living to gain personal validation than the Abrahamic religious belief of: Follow these rules and get eternal bliss, break them and suffer for eternity. They imply we are being judged by the all powerful creator of our own existence, whereas the former explains ways to can live to better yourself and your own role in the way things are. They seek less to control and manipulate and more to enlighten and expand. The other is the way of control, fear and promise.

 

[Total Power]

Buddhism and Hinduism are more a way of living to gain personal validation than the Abrahamic religious belief of: Follow these rules and get eternal bliss, break them and suffer for eternity. They imply we are being judged by the all powerful creator of our own existence, whereas the former explains ways to can live to better yourself and your own role in the way things are. They seek less to control and manipulate and more to enlighten and expand. The other is the way of control, fear and promise.

That's what i am saying. Jesus himself asked his disciples to 'enter through the narrow gate', it means not enter through the path the vast majority of the people are taking. I really urge you to read Gnostic gospels, any references of such were removed from mainstream christianity. What you are saying is quite correct, you will never find me defending organised religion but i urge you to take a look at gnostic gospels, where Christ is a principle, not a 'person' .

 

[iBeng]

That's what i am saying. Jesus himself asked his disciples to 'enter through the narrow gate', it means not enter through the path the vast majority of the people are taking. I really urge you to read Gnostic gospels, any references of such were removed from mainstream christianity. What you are saying is quite correct, you will never find me defining organised religion but i urge you to take a look at gnostic gospels, where Christ is a principle, not a 'person' .

Even as a principle he is by definition a set of fearful repercussions that would befall me if I dont seek Gods forgiveness for my apparent sins I have committed by simply...existing.

Religion if that nature is by its own invention a tool for control. Man, as a predator, seeks control and power, and as a base animal we have an inherent fear of losing that. Either by death or actions. We can trick ourselves into thinking death isnt the end if we invent our own creator and claim to know how to please him to continue our existence.

One shouldnt take advice on death from someone who hasnt yet died.

 

[Total Power]

Even as a principle he is by definition a set of fearful repercussions that would befall me if I dont seek Gods forgiveness for my apparent sins I have committed by simply...existing.

This is not true, heaven/hell are not mentioned in gnostic gospels, neither they exist outside of pure fantasy. If the concept of universal saviour is removed then what 'forgiveness'? who forgives whom? what you are talking about is the concept of organised religion. Christ is not a person but a 'state' of 'being'.

 

[iBeng]

This is not true, heaven/hell are not mentioned in gnostic gospels, neither they exist outside of pure fantasy. If the concept of universal saviour is removed then what 'forgiveness'? who forgives whom? what you are talking about is the concept of organised religion. Christ is not a person but a 'state' of 'being'.

Then why would this apparent message you speak of be twisted like you claim it has? Is it to test us? If so, then a thing or an entity would have to be doing the testing, right? Is this all an elaborate reality game show that is being played out where we see who is smart enough to ignore the mainstream religions and instead follow the obscure information found before their formation?

You are claiming to know of the gnostic gospels, the REAL stuff that we need to know to essentially be saved. To prove ourselves to this apparent entity that we are good and worthy of saving. Again, we dont want to die and be pointless specks in an infinite reality, we want to MATTER, to be a REASON, and following the gnostic gospel gives us that impression. Again, with no real logical backup to it, other than it was recorded somewhere, or observed by some person or in some way communicated by, again, a non-thing...thing.

It doesnt matter what gospel, religion, vision, prophecy or literature you use to try and explain why we should live a certain way to obtain a certain reward, the fact remains: No one knows. We invent explanations until we understand them.

God is an invention we will someday discard when we discover the truth.

 

[Total Power]

Then why would this apparent message you speak of be twisted like you claim it has? Is it to test us? If so, then a thing or an entity would have to be doing the testing, right? Is this all an elaborate reality game show that is being played out where we see who is smart enough to ignore the mainstream religions and [instead follow the obscure information found before their formation?

Why you think messages are twisted? the same reason why Buddhism was driven out of its country of origin. How can there not be a saviour? this was unacceptable to the people in the council of nicasea. This is not a popularity contest. The intent of religion was uplift spirituality through a series of archetypes (they didn't have wikipedia back then). Instead of doing that people used it for personal gains. Do a little bit of reading on archetypes and it's influence in human psyche.

What i am trying to tell you is you cannot start 'knowing' what you are asking (as opposed to material things) through intellect by reading a book. Just because you read a book a year ahead of me, it doesn't make you more knowledgeable. 'Knowing' is a process and there are 'methods' to start knowing. What you are precisely talking about is 'belief systems' (including your own), which is not knowing. Belief is a belief, beliving in a god and non belief in a god is just the difference side of the same coin. Only when you say 'i don't know' and you start 'seeking' , then you will start to know. The problem is your ego will come in the way, human mind is such that it will do everything to prevent you from knowing (cue the david vs goalith or buddha's Mara).

This is why in Buddhism meditation is necessary to gain control over your unconscious, which i will explain a bit later.

You are claiming to know of the gnostic gospels, the REAL stuff that we need to know to essentially be saved. To prove ourselves to this apparent entity that we are good and worthy of saving. Again, we dont want to die and be pointless specks in an infinite reality, we want to MATTER, to be a REASON, and following the gnostic gospel gives us that impression. Again, with no real logical backup to it, other than it was recorded somewhere, or observed by some person or in some way communicated by, again, a non-thing...thing.

Let me get one thing straight, i am not claiming anything. You are making the assumption that i am claiming to 'know'. As i said 'knowledge' is for you to seek.I am no one to tell you.

Secondly you are making the assumption that this 'entity' and 'you' are 'different'. The teachings of gnosticism and that of Buddhism aren't much different. The purpose to find out the true nature of your existence, peeling off whatever persona you have assumed, aka, iBeng, lions fan, owner of porsche, owner of 2 houses etc etc. (persona latin for mask). The purpose is to find out who the actual iBeng is, is it the things you attach yourselves with? or is it your brain, kidney, heart, liver etc? who is iBeng? It's not compulsory that you must do that, but gnosticism is about this.

And this is also not a question of which form of christianity is correct. Hell if Jehovah's witness works for you so be it. My point is that an alternative version exists as well, that is consistent with the teachings of Jesus, Buddha and Krishna.

If your interested in looking at your unconscious (science says we are only 10 percwnt conscious), spend 10 minutes in silence and just watch the thoughts float into your mind and see what they are. You will find you won't be able to stop them coming in. I guess the question is, if you can't stop thoughts coming into your mind, then do you control you mind???? We may also notice that your mind is not oneness but a million different thoughts and ideas all trying to reach your conscoiusness and control it.

My exception in this thread came from people (materialists) claiming that science is interested in the "truth", but as David Bohm said, you can only experience it in finite ways by observing it. From a gnostic perspective, one cannot experience truth via intellectual observation, which is why the intellect needs to be rested through transcendental meditation.

It doesnt matter what gospel, religion, vision, prophecy or literature you use to try and explain why we should live a certain way to obtain a certain reward, the fact remains: No one knows. We invent explanations until we understand them.

God is an invention we will someday discard when we discover the truth.

If you have your conclusion without giving yourself a chance to 'know', then i am disappointed (note i was like you here, some 15 years ago, making fun of religion and spirituality, FIGJAM can validate this, ) , however it's fine, atheism is good, hell it means you are thinking. But your conclusion then is no different to the religious nutjobs who claims 'they know' just by reading a book. There is no way you can 'know' or conclude unless you 'start knowing'. This cannot be done through 'intellect' yet people tries to invoke intellectual arguments in this.

Your argument that God is an invention cause you read the mainstream religions is true. What i am saying is through practice you can validate the truth. You do not need to agree/disagree on anything.

And to remind you again, i am making no such claims about knowing anything. The knowledge is out there for you to seek. There is extraordinary scientific data (even Harvard scientists admit it) cause deep state meditation is an extraordinary state of "being". There is no magic involved either. But no, i cannot show you how to meditate, neither i can meditate for you, do it yourself, this is consistent with the scientific process, like any good scientist don't dismiss it without experimentation.

 

[iBeng]

Ive read through your response and it feels to me like you are using two general sayings to argue for the pursuit of faith...

1) Dont knock it till you try it
2) Try everything once

I understand your statement that, logically, you cant dismiss something as false if you havnt made an effort to test it by participating. That in itself is problematic. We know theres no air in space, but no one is going to prove that by attempting to NOT breathe it. We know the sun is hot, again, no one is going to touch it to confirm that.

In terms of science NOT pursuing truth, thats a fallacy, since it literally has answered questions previously answered by the assumption of a greater power that was then explained.

Meditation, again, is different for everyone, and the experiences you describe isnt unusual for people to experience when they manage to clear their minds. Many people claim to then see visions, prophecies or "The right way" and that sometimes leads to things like cults and even religions. Everything of this nature is in someway invented by man.

There is far more likelihood that we are simply cosmic accidents of an unique nature, in that we were lucky enough for everything to line up to where we are now. We could be all wiped out by a comet tomorrow with little to no warning. Would that be "The will of the maker" or just another universal glitch that wipes out a scientific curiosity?

At the end of the day, religion, faith and the pursuit of trying to figure out why we are what we are are all just fancy talk for our original reason for it all: We are scared of dying because its the unknown, and it will be the unknown for quite likely forever. Thats the nature of existence, entropy and the general chaotic nature of everything. We dont HAVE to have a reason for being. Thats entitlement and narcissism in the extreme.

If meditating and finding a place where you feel more awakened or enlightened helps people deal with that fact easier then great. But religion or the pursuit of appeasing a possible higher power isnt. Its the equivalence of giving the school bully praise in the hopes he doesnt punch you in the face.

 

[Total Power]

Ive read through your response and it feels to me like you are using two general sayings to argue for the pursuit of faith...

1) Dont knock it till you try it

Why would you? without experimentation how can you reach a conclusion? do scientists reach a conclusion without putting their hypothesis to test?

2) Try everything once

I am not at all saying that at all.

In terms of science NOT pursuing truth, thats a fallacy, since it literally has answered questions previously answered by the assumption of a greater power that was then explained.

What greater power? what "great power" did i mention? you are again talking through your concept of mainstream religion and a personal god, i am not talking about that at all if you wish to put words in my mouth please don't. There is nothing 'greater power' about consciousness. Which is the source of everything. Matter is a result of consciousness not the other way around. There is nothing 'great' about it. David Bohm, Neil Bohrs, Heisenberg, Freeman Dyson and many other physicists have made that observation. You are trying to invoke your version of religion into it, is not what i am trying to argue at all.

Meditation, again, is different for everyone, and the experiences you describe isnt unusual for people to experience when they manage to clear their minds. Many people claim to then see visions, prophecies or "The right way" and that sometimes leads to things like cults and even religions. Everything of this nature is in someway invented by man.

Let me ask you what you mean by meditation? i don't think you and i are on the same page. Meditation is a loosely used and abused term. It took me 3 years and hundreds of failed attempts to get anywhere past the basic level. You are talking about meditation on a very basic level, the one they show on tv which includes concentration and focus. Yes these are the starting steps. There are higher states of meditation which is the 'same' for everyone because the real 'we' are all the same. For example, higher states of meditation is all about symbolgy (hello you don't see a personal white man as a god). The concept of No Time is covered in most esoteric religions, including Judaism, Gnosticism and Buddhism. It is the individual who must experience it first hand through meditation (Shunyata, one of the major steps in meditation). It is through this experience that one can obtain the proof that you demand in a peer-reviewed journal.

But as you say, i am demanding and saying 'try everything once'. Sorry this isn't an LSD experience that you will get a shortcut to europhia. If that's that simple everyone will be meditating for 10 mins and coming up with an answer. I am not sure how well read you are on Buddhism but the ego is the hardest thing to kill. We have some very specific phenomena, which is highly detailed and intricate and consistent. Those who don't want to research it will remain unaware of its complexity, and then abuse those who believe in what they consider to be a primative story telling. It's their knowledge which is primative.

These higher states are called states of zero, "shunyata". Where not only you can control your body and brain through extraordinary means, but you are able to control your mind through extraordinary means. This is why i am asking you to read up on it, if you don't wish to try. The ultimate goal of meditation is a state called 'samadhi' which only a handful been able to achieve so far. Ask any Buddhist practitioner he will tell you. But they again, you will accuse me to 'selling faith', hence i am asking you to read up on it atleast if you don't wish to try. Thousands and thousands of anecdotal evidence exists from buddhist practitioners. And before you say (lolzzz anecdotal), yes cause consciousness is purely subjective, i cannot do it for you. You cannot prove subjective through objective means.

If you wish to read about how meditation and consciousness works, you can read Sam Harris, the famous atheist. To say meditation is different for everyone, goes to show you don't understand what i am trying to say.

At the end of the day, religion, faith and the pursuit of trying to figure out why we are what we are are all just fancy talk for our original reason for it all: We are scared of dying because its the unknown, and it will be the unknown for quite likely forever. Thats the nature of existence, entropy and the general chaotic nature of everything. We dont HAVE to have a reason for being. Thats entitlement and narcissism in the extreme.

If meditating and finding a place where you feel more awakened or enlightened helps people deal with that fact easier then great. But religion or the pursuit of appeasing a possible higher power isnt. Its the equivalence of giving the school bully praise in the hopes he doesnt punch you in the face.

Again, assumptions. You keep mentioning 'higher power' when i haven't mentioned any such thing. The use of ridicule ("woo", "new age", "mystical") starts when people sense they lack the ability to convince by logic or evidence. As reductionist/materialists are now increasingly on the defensive in the face of "hard problem" arguments, these sorts of ad hominem attacks are seen more often. (see my discussion with snake baker).

Science can't explain consciousness because it's not objectively observable, unlike other physical properties. We would never even know it was there if we didn't personally feel it. To claim that consciousness emerges from the brain is like someone claiming that invisible faeries emerge from their cell phone. They can see the faeries that no one else can. But from an objective standpoint, they would be saying that something unobservable emerges from something observable, a claim impossible to prove and not true for any other emergent properties.

Sure they'll find more correlates of consciousness, many of which will probably turn out to be useful. But any explanation of consciousness purely in terms of physical processes or algorithms is ultimately doomed. Some scientists simply don't grasp the problem: you can't explain the subjective via objective means. Physical processes, no matter how complex, have objective properties and that's all. You can't throw a bunch of objective matter, forces, and fields together and declare that the invisible subjective magically emerges. There's no way to get there from here. Subjective properties are just not in the language of our basic physics and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Hence i am stressing more on the 'subjective' elements which includes the most sophisticated instrument known to humans, your own body. Please read on Sir Roger Penrose and his non-local consciousness hypothesis. There are plenty of scientific hypothesis in this regard as there is no known theory on consciousness. So it's not all 'pie in sky' kinda thing. It has some science behind it. However what i am saying don't make me describe to you in scientific terms, since it's immaterial and has no material properties.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

The sooner you accept your mortality and your small place in the world the more at peace you will be.

Religion is all about death and our inability to accept its finality. It’s a selfish concept.

You did not exist in the couple of hundreds of thousands years of human existence. You will not be here, will not exist in 100+ years, nor in a 1,000 years, 10,000 years, 100,000...a million years.

But you’ve been given a chance for 70-80 years if you’re lucky, a small glimpse. And you’ve only been given that chance because others have ceased to exist.

So your life, the life of your neighbour, family, friends is just a small part and extremely valuable. We should exalt in human life. Enjoy it if you can before it’s time to give someone else a chance.

 

[Total Power]

The sooner you accept your mortality and your small place in the world the more at peace you will be.

Religion is all about death and our inability to accept its finality. It’s a selfish concept.

You did not exist in the couple of hundreds of thousands years of human existence. You will not be here, will not exist in 100+ years, nor in a 1,000 years, 10,000 years, 100,000...a million years.

But you’ve been given a chance for 70-80 years if you’re lucky, a small glimpse. And you’ve only been given that chance because others have ceased to exist.

So your life, the life of your neighbour, family, friends is just a small part and extremely valuable. We should exalt in human life. Enjoy it if you can before it’s time to give someone else a chance.

Lol, i am not religious and i agree with everything you have said except for its a selfish concept. Yes maybe to those at the heart of organised religion.

It is a process of seeking, no different than science. You can’t look inside somebody else’s head, but scientists are all conscious - and of course they use this to inform and guide their research - so I would be interested to see a study where consciousness-researchers researched on themselves for a change, rather than continuing to beat the dead horse of trying to probe other people’s consciousness from the outside. It hasn't gotten us anywhere in the past 100 years assuming consciousness is a product of the brain, observable and measurable. If it makes me selfish, so be it.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Lol, i am not religious and i agree with everything you have said except for its a selfish concept. Yes maybe to those at the heart of organised religion.

It is a process of seeking, no different than science. You can’t look inside somebody else’s head, but scientists are all conscious - and of course they use this to inform and guide their research - so I would be interested to see a study where consciousness-researchers researched on themselves for a change, rather than continuing to beat the dead horse of trying to probe other people’s consciousness from the outside. It hasn't gotten us anywhere in the past 100 years assuming consciousness is a product of the brain, observable and measurable. If it makes me selfish, so be it.

I meant selfish from the point that they want to deny death and somehow continue to live. Also yes organised religion and wealth. If someone wants/needs religion to get through their life then fair enough

 

[Total Power]

I meant selfish from the point that they want to deny death and somehow continue to live. Also yes organised religion and wealth. If someone wants/needs religion to get through their life then fair enough

Well if you are talking from an 'eastern religious' perspective, the concept of 'I' is very well defined there. 'You' are pretty much done when you are dead. There's no you. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it simply changes form. The "you" is illusionary, as "you" (as in thegreatbarryB) in reality doesn't exist.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Well if you are talking from an 'eastern religious' perspective, the concept of 'I' is very well defined there. 'You' are pretty much done when you are dead. There's no you. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it simply changes form. The "you" is illusionary, as "you" (as in thegreatbarryB) in reality doesn't exist.

I should clarify...others will cease to exist, thegreatbarryb will continue on young man to continue to pass on the message. Donations welcome.

 

[HardcoreGeelongFan]

If god was around forever why wait until only 6000 years ago to create everything?

Wouldn't have he sat there in nothingness for billions and billions of years?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Do you believe life has no inherent meaning, as in, there is no objective value to anything?

With the precious life you are given, if you’re lucky enough you get to enjoy your family, friends, nature, books, films, philosophy etc etc.
You may give life if you have kids to help continue the species.

Enjoying that is not meaning?

A lot of people through history unfortunately have had to endure and suffer quite a bit. But there’s still hope of a better life...people persevere through most horrible things.

Less horrible if we look past gods and realised how incredibly valuable human life is while you’re here. Then again maybe not as some (many) will do anything for power as history has shown.

The alternative to life I believe is nothingness. Everlasting life of course would be the wish/desire.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Weird...I was replying to a post that’s just been deleted. Or...did it even exist?!

 

[Snake_Baker]

The atoms.

They talk to me.

 

[Total Power]

The atoms.

They talk to me.

After your work in the climate change thread...i think it's best said that Deepak has more credibility than you do. You keep posting high school hobby scientists, and tinfoil hat stuff ,there yet when i post a cardiologist talking about neuroscience you say 'he is not qualified to talk about it'.. you are a fraud. Anything you say is irrelevant and your opinion counts less than the Procrastinators. You are expert in nothing. You have been exposed and this thread is the proof of your double standards. Why don't you go on and quote the MA classics again on climate science? Like CM said in the other thread you are best left alone to drown in your own cesspool

 

[Snake_Baker]

 

[Snake_Baker]

 

[Snake_Baker]

 

[Snake_Baker]

 

[Total Power]

You should have saved yourself time and just stated that you cannot deliver on any solid scientific consensus.

How awesome, you want an appeal to authority....without the ability to reason and think for yourself.


Funny when things come back to bite you. Consensus means zilch where no proper definition exists, yet you tried to make it sound like SC means everything. Let me know when you make progress with your strawman 'consensus' hypothesis, cause we have been stuck in the same place for the past 100 years.

But remember, chop your head off = proof. Geez, what an eminent thinker....Einstein will be jealous of your reasoning. LOL

 

[Suspense]

Lots of research about meditation, it's great to see science is finally paying some long overdue attention to what used to be pseudoscience not so long ago.

Neuroscientist Richard Davidson scanned the minds of prominent meditators (i.e., people who had meditated up to 62,000 hours in their lifetime). He found that meditation altered their brains' ability to produce gamma waves – quickly oscillating waves associated with attention and memory – significantly more than the average person.

Let me ask you what you mean by meditation? i don't think you and i are on the same page. Meditation is a loosely used and abused term. It took me 3 years and hundreds of failed attempts to get anywhere past the basic level. You are talking about meditation on a very basic level, the one they show on tv which includes concentration and focus. Yes these are the starting steps. There are higher states of meditation which is the 'same' for everyone because the real 'we' are all the same. For example, higher states of meditation is all about symbolgy (hello you don't see a personal white man as a god). The concept of No Time is covered in most esoteric religions, including Judaism, Gnosticism and Buddhism. It is the individual who must experience it first hand through meditation (Shunyata, one of the major steps in meditation). It is through this experience that one can obtain the proof that you demand in a peer-reviewed journal.

But as you say, i am demanding and saying 'try everything once'. Sorry this isn't an LSD experience that you will get a shortcut to europhia. If that's that simple everyone will be meditating for 10 mins and coming up with an answer. I am not sure how well read you are on Buddhism but the ego is the hardest thing to kill. We have some very specific phenomena, which is highly detailed and intricate and consistent. Those who don't want to research it will remain unaware of its complexity, and then abuse those who believe in what they consider to be a primative story telling. It's their knowledge which is primative.

These higher states are called states of zero, "shunyata". Where not only you can control your body and brain through extraordinary means, but you are able to control your mind through extraordinary means. This is why i am asking you to read up on it, if you don't wish to try. The ultimate goal of meditation is a state called 'samadhi' which only a handful been able to achieve so far. Ask any Buddhist practitioner he will tell you. But they again, you will accuse me to 'selling faith', hence i am asking you to read up on it atleast if you don't wish to try. Thousands and thousands of anecdotal evidence exists from buddhist practitioners. And before you say (lolzzz anecdotal), yes cause consciousness is purely subjective, i cannot do it for you. You cannot prove subjective through objective means.

If you wish to read about how meditation and consciousness works, you can read Sam Harris, the famous atheist. To say meditation is different for everyone, goes to show you don't understand what i am trying to say.

I am always interested in reading the experiences of others with regard to meditation and Buddhism.

I found meditation and Buddhism to be an incredibly powerful tool for:
A. Identifying the 'ego' part of my identity/thought processes
B. Learning how to control it - identifying the beliefs and behaviours that feed my ego and actively challenging them

These experiences certainly provided 'insight' into a different 'non-egoic' state of thinking but nothing akin to what I would describe as a higher state of consciousness. This process I would describe as 'relieving' or 'freeing' rather than 'euphoric' - but I can see how some may experience it as such.

I don't practice to obtain a higher state of consciousness or reach samadhi or obtain enlightenment. Regular practice helps me to do A & B - which is what I interpret "control your mind through extraordinary means" to entail.

After quite a bit of practice, a lot of reading and attending various sanghas, I felt that seeking 'euphoria' or a 'higher state of consciousness' or 'Buddha Power Level 9000' as unhelpful to my practice as they are all 'egoic' beliefs. I also have not felt the desire to 'kill' my ego as it is the source of my competitive and animalistic survival instincts - both of which human history would deem as largely 'useful'. However, through practice and self-disciple, I am getting better at being able to keep a tight reign on it - avoiding beliefs and behaviours that compromise my self-esteem (suffering).

Either as a result of this process (or maybe just maturing), I found myself naturally moving away from pure egoic pursuits towards more virtuous pursuits. Again, this shift was not something I felt I ought to do - but something that I wanted to do. This aligns with the noble eightfold path but it is not unique to Buddhism. Similar notions exist in the teachings of Aristotle, Jesus and secular humanist thought - all with their own unique spin on things.

So, for me at least, this is 'the point' of meditation and Buddhism (and perhaps all 'spirituality?') - to transform a schlubby, selfish egoist into someone who works for the betterment of myself and others - without an expectation of reward. It goes without saying - you don't need Buddhism or religion to achieve this - most people don't. However, I found and continue to find it useful.

These are just my experiences - if your experiences are different - then more power to you. There is certainly some interesting research about consciousness and meditation. It is simply that my own practice has led me to where I would rather spend 62,000 hours engaged in virtuous work than engaging in deep meditation seeking enlightenment.