No Oppo Supporters Non Bulldog Footy Talk - Bulldogs only - Part 2

[Mattdougie]

Teaching the religion as an exercise in theology is fine I guess (though I'd imagine it's part of the Curriculum rather than an administrative decision and was likely introduced by the Coalition once they got back in power) but I don't think that has any correlation on whether they celebrate Easter or Christmas. If they go down that road I think they have to celebrate everyone's holidays.

I agree they appear to lack consistency with the ribbons based on what you're written but that sounds about par for the course with the schools I went to.



I wouldn't risk my family's life and well being to be a minority citizen in a country that doesn't speak my native language and is rather hostile to my religion just to be better off financially.

If you've got the money to be an economic refugee and no other motivation to leave you'd just stay home.

And the countries closest to those they're fleeing a) probably have less ability to care for them (in terms of resources and the economic support) and b) probably shouldn't have to shoulder all the burden from a humanitarian crisis. Though I believe Jordan has taken millions of Syrian refugees which is remarkable considering the size of the country. A great effort that puts us the US and Europe to shame.

I also don't think relocating twice (especially if you have kids who have grown up in Australia and identify as Australians) is something we should be coercing people to do.

The school is making decisions based on no consistency at all. If they teach Xmas and Easter they should at least acknowledge it or just don't teach it. I would expect the same if they taught the kids about Ramadan. Don't teach our children subjects and then not allow them to recognise what they are learning.

Ps they can dress up for Halloween so please explain?


I wasn't in anyway referring to Syrians as economical refugees but there are massive numbers of these seeking five from countries such as India and Pakistan. And Europe are now the first area to start cracking down on this.

These people are making an already hard potion even harder and adding to the numbers significantly.

And with no disrespect please don't tell me that there are not people coming here for economical reasons and economical reason only.

 

[Mattdougie]

And they all came home with ptsd and due to the fact that mental health wasn't a thing they dealt with it by themselves which unfortunately for a lot of them resulted in suicides, lifelong depression, insomnia from recurring nightmares, and most common of all, drinking themselves to death and in a lot of those cases beating up the wife and kids the whole while.

But that's cool we've only just invented mental health issues now in our overly pc world. Our grandparents coped fine without the ability to diagnose and treat because it wasn't a thing.

They all came home with issues did they?

All of them? What a crook. My grandfather served in the war and told me of the horrible things he saw and did and was one of the finest humans I've ever met. Hardly drank and was the most gentle man on earth. Do not sully these great men with your generalisation and accusation.

Drinking
Violence to woman and children
Murder
Rape
Suicide

All gone up dramatically in a per capita rate and you think these people couldn't handle things better then today's people do? Absolute twattle.

Regardless the way you look at it we do not deal with problems as well as previous eras did. Every stat non known to man says we are going backwards at a rate of knots and the good old "mental health" excuse for many(not all) is part of the problem. How can we control anyone if they know they can blame the pretend demons in their heads.

The prevelance of mental health excuses is not helping and IMO it's a massive part of the problem

 

[hujsh]

The school is making decisions based on no consistency at all. If they teach Xmas and Easter they should at least acknowledge it or just don't teach it. I would expect the same if they taught the kids about Ramadan. Don't teach our children subjects and then not allow them to recognise what they are learning.

It'd help to know what they were teaching but I don't agree that there's any need to celebrate it because they teach it.

Ps they can dress up for Halloween so please explain?

I don't care. It's not religious and at barely cultural.

I wasn't in anyway referring to Syrians as economical refugees

I know. I just used them as an example for another point.

but there are massive numbers of these seeking five from countries such as India and Pakistan. And Europe are now the first area to start cracking down on this.

These people are making an already hard potion even harder and adding to the numbers significantly.

And with no disrespect please don't tell me that there are not people coming here for economical reasons and economical reason only.

So you you think people give up everything, their property, extended family, friends, relative security, any money they may have, etc to be treated like s**t in Indonesia on the off chance they'll get to Australia? And then risk their family's lives on top of that?

It doesn't add up.

 

[hujsh]

They all came home with issues did they?

All of them? What a crook. My grandfather served in the war and told me of the horrible things he saw and did and was one of the finest humans I've ever met. Hardly drank and was the most gentle man on earth. Do not sully these great men with your generalisation and accusation.

Drinking
Violence to woman and children
Murder
Rape
Suicide

All gone up dramatically in a per capita rate and you think these people couldn't handle things better then today's people do? Absolute twattle.

Regardless the way you look at it we do not deal with problems as well as previous eras did. Every stat non known to man says we are going backwards at a rate of knots and the good old "mental health" excuse for many(not all) is part of the problem. How can we control anyone if they know they can blame the pretend demons in their heads.

The prevelance of mental health excuses is not helping and IMO it's a massive part of the problem

Your grandfather may have had PTSD but felt the need to hide it lest he appear 'soft'. It's great that he came home in that good a condition neverthless


It's funny you had a go at someone about making broad generalisations then proceeded to make a number of your own.

I figured the easiest to find would be the murder rate which hasn't dramatically changed in the last century aside from some spikes in the 80s

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4524A092E30E4486CA2569DE00256331

 

[Mattdougie]

No I'm saying that people from certain countries or areas that are under no risk are portraying themselves as refugees simply to move to another country they believe will benefit them.

An economical refugee is a person that moves between countries not for safety reasons but to use the refugee status to improve their lives. It's a massive issue in Europe at the moment with millions of non refugees flooding into Europe adding to the legitimate refugees.

Yes it's a harsh comment but in no way should these people be helped before legitimate refugees or even for that matter people already in country who need help.

 

[Mattdougie]

Your grandfather may have had PTSD but felt the need to hide it lest he appear 'soft'. It's great that he came home in that good a condition neverthless


It's funny you had a go at someone about making broad generalisations then proceeded to make a number of your own.

I figured the easiest to find would be the murder rate which hasn't dramatically changed in the last century aside from some spikes in the 80s

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4524A092E30E4486CA2569DE00256331

Apologies I thought I read somewhere murder rate has gone up but it was only one of several issues I brought up that are all growing at a massive rate.


My confusion was for murder rates in an area I spend some time in that is now leading Australia and climbing dramatically against the norm

 

[Mattdougie]

Anyway wrong thread we should move this to another thread

 

[hujsh]

No I'm saying that people from certain countries or areas that are under no risk are portraying themselves as refugees simply to move to another country they believe will benefit them.

An economical refugee is a person that moves between countries not for safety reasons but to use the refugee status to improve their lives. It's a massive issue in Europe at the moment with millions of non refugees flooding into Europe adding to the legitimate refugees.

Yes it's a harsh comment but in no way should these people be helped before legitimate refugees or even for that matter people already in country who need help.

Explain to me how one can do that. Because to my knowledge you can't just put up your hand and say 'I'm a refugee' without sacrificing all that i mentioned above at which point it's not worth it.

You mentioned India and Pakistan. Tell me how you get to Australia as an economic refugee from there. What's step 1?

 

[hujsh]

Apologies I thought I read somewhere murder rate has gone up but it was only one of several issues I brought up that are all growing at a massive rate.


My confusion was for murder rates in an area I spend some time in that is now leading Australia and climbing dramatically against the norm

What do you want to bet you're wrong on most of them?

Edit: Or rather that rates like domestic violence are just being more widely reported as efforts are made to address it.

Suicide rates in Australia appear to have declined slightly over the last decade, from 2,320 in 2002 to 2,273 in 2011

And drinking rates are declining unless you're over 50

Which makes 3

 

[Mattdougie]

Explain to me how one can do that. Because to my knowledge you can't just put up your hand and say 'I'm a refugee' without sacrificing all that i mentioned above at which point it's not worth it.

You mentioned India and Pakistan. Tell me how you get to Australia as an economic refugee from there. What's step 1?

I was referring to Europe in this discussion and I stated that several times.

But if you think that there are not a group of people that are attempting to disguise themselves as legitimate refugees to gain access to this country then you are naive mate.

Have you spent any time with refugees? Sudanese? Syrian? Afghan? Well I have and they are more than happy to admit to you that once one of their families gets into the country it's far easier to get their families over. So yes they are aware and yes they take advantage like all people would and do. But to pretend it doesn't happen is wrong and does effect the amount of legitimate refugees this country takes.

Now the amount we take is another issue but when we have a "quota" as we do now those that are cheating the system are not helping

 

[hujsh]

I was referring to Europe in this discussion and I stated that several times.

But if you think that there are not a group of people that are attempting to disguise themselves as legitimate refugees to gain access to this country then you are naive mate.

Have you spent any time with refugees? Sudanese? Syrian? Afghan? Well I have and they are more than happy to admit to you that once one of their families gets into the country it's far easier to get their families over. So yes they are aware and yes they take advantage like all people would and do. But to pretend it doesn't happen is wrong and does effect the amount of legitimate refugees this country takes.

Now the amount we take is another issue but when we have a "quota" as we do now those that are cheating the system are not helping

So your response is that they're aware that once they're in they have a chance to get their families in? Great thanks for that truly enlightening. If that's the best evidence you got from your experience, anecdotal or otherwise, you're probably doing more to prove my point than I am.

 

[ringa5]

Your grandfather may have had PTSD but felt the need to hide it lest he appear 'soft'. It's great that he came home in that good a condition neverthless


It's funny you had a go at someone about making broad generalisations then proceeded to make a number of your own.

I figured the easiest to find would be the murder rate which hasn't dramatically changed in the last century aside from some spikes in the 80s

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4524A092E30E4486CA2569DE00256331

Step father 19 year old Vietnam soldier.Post traumatic stress very real.And those old enough to remember the people of Vietnam would testify the horror.Never romantic.

 

[Mattdougie]

What do you want to bet you're wrong on most of them?

Edit: Or rather that rates like domestic violence are just being more widely reported as efforts are made to address it.

Lol

In the last ten years suicide rates, violence against woman, sexual assault and violence against children have all climbed.

So no I'm not wrong

 

[Mattdougie]

Anyway as I've said 3 times now move it to another thread If you want to continue

 

[hujsh]

Lol

In the last ten years suicide rates, violence against woman, sexual assault and violence against children have all climbed.

So no I'm not wrong

Nope.

Sexual assault is up but people can't be sure if it's because it's more common or because people have a better grasp of concepts like consent

 

[Mattdougie]

Nope.

Sexual assault is up but people can't be sure if it's because it's more common or because people have a better grasp of concepts like consent

End discussion

Ciao

 

[Hard Ball Get]

I think the players know what they were told they were given. Hunter isn't sure that is true.

And given most of the players' failure to disclose what they were told they were given to ADADA they are not blameless.

So IMO Hunter is a victim just not a blameless victim.

But relative to Hird - Hunter is a cleanskin.

Fine distinction I know.

The players didn't know what they were given and they were under instruction from the club when filling in forms.

 

[hujsh]

View attachment 325528

End discussion

Ciao

A peak is not an upwards trend.

It increased in the last 2 years but otherwise was relatively steady for the last decade

 

[Mattdougie]

The players didn't know what they were given and they were under instruction from the club when filling in forms.

Do you honestly believe that mate ?

If you were part of an organisation and they gave you 1000 shots and then couldn't tell you what they were do you honestly think you would stay? Especially if you have the option to move to another organisation for the same $$$?

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Do you honestly believe that mate ?

If you were part of an organisation and they gave you 1000 shots and then couldn't tell you what they were do you honestly think you would stay? Especially if you have the option to move to another organisation for the same $$$?

Yes. I've posted about it a number of times so I'm not going over the whole thing again, but I know one of the 34.

For the record, he received a couple of injections, no idea what it was specifically. They made him ill, so he stopped getting them.

 

[hujsh]

And on Domestic Violence, homicides decreased somewhat over the last decade while assaults mostly stayed the same (though it was up from the 90s). It was mostly static changes on both fronts though

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-06/fact-file-domestic-violence-statistics/7147938

 

[Mattdougie]

Yes. I've posted about it a number of times so I'm not going over the whole thing again, but I know one of the 34.

For the record, he received a couple of injections, no idea what it was specifically. They made him ill, so he stopped getting them.

Fair enough I will agree to disagree

 

[immortalmike]

And on Domestic Violence, homicides decreased somewhat over the last decade while assaults mostly stayed the same (though it was up from the 90s). It was mostly static changes on both fronts though

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-06/fact-file-domestic-violence-statistics/7147938

Dude the biggest problem I'm seeing is that a layman struggles to grasp the meaning of such statistics and the complicated reasons for why they appear the way they are.
I think you're unfortunately banging your head against a brick wall.

 

[Mattdougie]

Dude the biggest problem I'm seeing is that a layman struggles to grasp the meaning of such statistics and the complicated reasons for why they appear the way they are.
I think you're unfortunately banging your head against a brick wall.

Wow aren't you feeling superior today.

I'm very aware of how the stats read and some can be read as debatable whether they are increasing or not.

But what cannot be debated is

Suicide rates in the last ten years have rising sharply.
Domestic violence police attendances has increased dramatically.
Violence against children huge rise.

So use whatever debate you wish to minimise these issues and use iawareness as the reason for the rise but the reality is these are real rises regardless and should be a massive concern not downgraded by fiddling figures

 

[immortalmike]

Wow aren't you feeling superior today.

I'm very aware of how the stats read and some can be read as debatable whether they are increasing or not.

But what cannot be debated is

Suicide rates in the last ten years have rising sharply.
Domestic violence police attendances has increased dramatically.
Violence against children huge rise.

So use whatever debate you wish to minimise these issues and use iawareness as the reason for the rise but the reality is these are real rises regardless and should be a massive concern not downgraded by fiddling figures

I'm not going to bother having this argument with you unfortunately Matty. It has been a waste of hjush's time and I'd rather not waste mine. This is something you have to investigate yourself.

I would suggest you look into the stats you are citing and the very real reasons why they might appear that way. Enact your own labour and try to see things in their context. And if you still feel the way you do, so be it.

I'm not being superior but it is somewhat of a specialty of mine and I often get frustrated at the general public and their grasp of such issues. If you felt condescended to I apologise.