No Oppo Supporters Non Bulldog Footy Talk - Bulldogs only - Part 4

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Munnez

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Can't overstate the importance of Darren Burgess at the dees. His whole thing is injury prevention and he's the best in the business.
Isn't Burgess moving to the Crows for next year? Will be interesting to see if there is any change of fortune for Melbourne if he does move on.
 

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Wetdog

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Everyone has opinions. Your take on Bonts leadership raised my eyebrows for example.
Difference is I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong or at least have the discussion. Many will just dig in or make an unhelpful throw away comment like "Everyone has opinions" that adds stuff all to the discussion.

We win the flag with Bont playing a crucial role I'm happy to admit he has arrived as a leader much like Cotchin before him. He's not there yet but he's certainly on his way after the last few weeks.
Mike,

Bont has been appointed Captain by our players and premiership winning (and most successful of all time) Coach. These are the guys that see him every day at training, meetings etc and play beside him on game day. They are in the trenches with him while you and I are watching on television eating popcorn and receiving a massage from our significant other.

Whilst popcorn was strewn all over our jumpers and floors, Bont was subsequently appointed All Australian Vice Captain and awarded Best Captain by his peers (via the Players Association). I think he even doubled the next highest voted player in votes for Best Captain by literally the players who play against him on game day. They see his leadership up close and personal while we are watching a KFC advert for the 890th time.

Bont will probably end up top 3 in the Brownlow and will be our Captain on GF day. At best he will win the Brownlow and be our third premiership winning Captain (fingers crossed).

I’m not sure what your knock is on Bont’s leadership but I thought your comments were by far the most bizarre of any takes I have seen on here all year. I have tried to be as kind and restrained as possible in this post. But I think you are a fair way off the mark.
 
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immortalmike

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Mike,

Bont has been appointed Captain by our players and premiership winning (and most successful of all time) Coach. These are the guys that see him every day at training, meetings etc and play beside him on game day. They are in the trenches with him while you and I are watching on television eating popcorn and receiving a massage from our significant other.

Whilst popcorn was strewn all over our jumpers and floors, Bont was subsequently appointed All Australian Vice Captain and awarded Best Captain by his peers (via the Players Association). I think he even doubled the next highest voted player in votes for Best Captain by literally the players who play against him on game day. They see his leadership up close and personal while we are watching a KFC advert for the 890th time.

Bont will probably end up top 3 in the Brownlow and will be our Captain on GF day. At best he will win the Brownlow and be our third premiership winning Captain (fingers crossed).

I’m not sure what your knock is on Bont’s leadership but I thought your comments were by far the most bizarre of any takes I have seen on here all year. I have tried to be as kind and restrained as possible in this post. But I think you are a fair way off the mark.
You obviously don't read much around here.
My opinion is as it's always been he hasn't demonstrated that he is an elite leader yet. His finals series has been good but he hasn't yet shown the Hodge or Cochin level leadership required for our club to become the dynasty I and many others want.
Yes it's harsh but it's also an honest assessment from afar.
What I have and will never say is that he is a poor leader.
If calling someone not elite (yet) and not up there with some of the greatest leaders of all time (again yet) is so wrong that you're writing an essay and calling it one of most bizarre takes you've ever read then maybe you need to check your hero worship.
 

maddog37

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You obviously don't read much around here.
My opinion is as it's always been he hasn't demonstrated that he is an elite leader yet. His finals series has been good but he hasn't yet shown the Hodge or Cochin level leadership required for our club to become the dynasty I and many others want.
Yes it's harsh but it's also an honest assessment from afar.
What I have and will never say is that he is a poor leader.
If calling someone not elite (yet) and not up there with some of the greatest leaders of all time (again yet) is so wrong that you're writing an essay and calling it one of most bizarre takes you've ever read then maybe you need to check your hero worship.
You compared to him to Matt Boyd, not Cotchin and Hodge.

own it mate. It is a crap call.
 

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immortalmike

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You compared to him to Matt Boyd, not Cotchin and Hodge.

own it mate. It is a crap call.
Matthew Boyd was an elite leader at 33. He grew into it like Bont will.

And I will not be lectured on a call by someone who's never wrote an opinion on here bar pot-shots at others and useless one liners. Blow it out your arse mate.
 

doggies ftw

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Bont is as good a leader as there is in the AFL right now, constantly drags us across the line on his own back, constantly steps up in big moments and that’s just the obvious stuff we see - he is as inspiring as anyone else in the AFL and we would not be anywhere near a grand final right now if it wasn’t for him
 

Wetdog

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You obviously don't read much around here.
My opinion is as it's always been he hasn't demonstrated that he is an elite leader yet. His finals series has been good but he hasn't yet shown the Hodge or Cochin level leadership required for our club to become the dynasty I and many others want.
Yes it's harsh but it's also an honest assessment from afar.
What I have and will never say is that he is a poor leader.
If calling someone not elite (yet) and not up there with some of the greatest leaders of all time (again yet) is so wrong that you're writing an essay and calling it one of most bizarre takes you've ever read then maybe you need to check your hero worship.
You’re setting a ridiculously high bar to be “elite” by requiring Bont to Captain a dynasty of premierships. I would love to see that too.

The players selected him as the best captain in the AFL this year. The AA selectors chose him as the second best. Bont already is an “elite” Captain. If you are the best in your field, you are “elite”. How can you not be?

IMO you can be an “elite” leader without winning premierships. At the end of the day, he is only one of 40 odd players on the list.

It depends how you define “elite”, but I define it as being in the top echelon of your profession. EG Top 10 players, Top 2 or 3 coaches etc. And Bont is 1/18 according to the playing group and 2/18 according to the AA selectors. That’s “elite” in my book.

If you want to give some specific verifiable examples of why Bont isn’t an elite Captain, I would be happy to hear them.

Geez, we’ve come a long way at Whitten Oval over the past 20 or 30 years. We’re now demanding dynesties before we bestow elite status on our players etc.
 

Dogs_R_Us

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Easton Wood talks about Bont in the latest video

 

Wetdog

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Yes I am.
But that's what it takes. His talent doesn't deserve good. It deserves spectacular.
End of story.
Ok. Well, when we are all wearing our 4-peat onesies in 2025 off the back of 4 consecutive Bont Norm Smiths, we will be sure to thank you for setting high standards and demanding nothing but excellence from Bont et al.
 

immortalmike

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Ok. Well, when we are all wearing our 4-peat onesies in 2025 off the back of 4 consecutive Bont Norm Smiths, we will be sure to thank you for setting high standards and demanding nothing but excellence from Bont et al.
Not demanding anything. Just describing my opinion of what it takes.
Nobody gives a sh*t what a nobody like me thinks. Apart from yourself apparently.
 

maddog37

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Matthew Boyd was an elite leader at 33. He grew into it like Bont will.

And I will not be lectured on a call by someone who's never wrote an opinion on here bar pot-shots at others and useless one liners. Blow it out your arse mate.
Classy. Play the man when called out for a ludicrous post.

Time to get off your high horse Mick.
 

ScragCity

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The motte-and-bailey fallacy (named after the motte-and-bailey castle) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where an arguer conflates two positions that share similarities, one modest and easy to defend (the "motte") and one much more controversial (the "bailey"). The arguer advances the controversial position, but when challenged, they insist that they are only advancing the more modest position. Upon retreating to the motte, the arguer can claim that the bailey has not been refuted (because the critic refused to attack the motte) or that the critic is unreasonable (by equating an attack on the bailey with an attack on the motte).
 

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