No Oppo Supporters Non Bulldog Footy Talk - Bulldogs only - Part 4

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The Buck

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I had lunch at a pub in North Melbourne today with two mates (both Dogs supporters). After checking in we were told there were limited tables available because of a private function. We managed to get a table and the waiter said that the GW bloody S Draft contingent had booked the private area. I said could you let them know we are here and are available to discuss the 2016 PF -- all in good fun.

Anyway, who should walk past our table but Leon Cameron. We said hello, told him we were Doggies members, and asked him if it was true he was Sam Darcy's godfather. He smiled and said yes. We mentioned the draft and he said they were very happy with Finn Callaghan and told us we were on to a really good thing in young Sam. Then he said "I reckon Bevo will take the same approach to Darcy that he has with JUH. I think Sam is about eighteen months away from coming into is own." (words to that effect).

I asked him if he knew of any ruck prospects going around and he said that there were really only about five pure rucks in the competition and that good rucks were extremely hard to come by.

He had his son with him and we didn't want to keep him any longer but he was very friendly, forthcoming and down to earth -- a really good bloke.

Pity he is coach of the plastic sh*t show.
 

ScragCity

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there were really only about five pure rucks in the competition
This is a really good point. There are less top tier rucks than there are teams which is why it's so hard for some teams (like us and GWS) to find a good one. Melbourne potentially have two which is incredibly good fortune for them.
 

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Mantis Toboggan

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Your question highlights the problem.
The point of using a pejorative label such as "virtue signalling" is to immediately delegitimise and undermine what objectively may (or may not) be a worthwhile act. It prejudges and it pre-empts contradiction.

Take away the label and the motivation that the label implies and it's just an objective act or statement by someone. It's fairer to allow it to be assessed on face value like that to begin with. Then if you think the motivation is suss/insincere it's legitimate to have a debate about that.

What using a term like virtue signalling does is put a brand on something before any reasoned discussion can take place. Being a catchy new abstract term there is a tendency for people to approach it as an established fact, closed for debate, rather than being just one person's subjective opinion. A brand, once applied and given plenty of exposure, is hard to remove or dissociate from the person/action. That's why these new terms and slogans are proliferating. It's a marketing technique. Morrison does it all the time with his slogans - "can-do capitalism", "death of the weekend", "technology not taxes".

This is all a bit ironic because the branding phenomenon is well illustrated in the difficulties that Scotty from Marketing is having at the moment. He has been disingenuous for too long and a bit too often. He has become increasingly careless in how he went about it. The now-famous "Macron moment" crystallised this creeping public suspicion and now he has a serious problem trying to shake the "pants on fire" tag. Labor understands the value of this to its electoral chances and is doing all it can to keep the topic bubbling.

So getting back to your post ... my first response is to challenge the premise of the question (insincerity). Even if it is correct, the act may still have value if it delivers somebody a tangible benefit.

And a mere gesture may still have some value despite being insincerely motivated. In some circumstances the insincerity may be toxic but in other circumstances (especially where the insincerity goes unnoticed) the gesture may be beneficial in getting others to fall in behind a worthwhile cause.
Surely the whole point of the term is that it is an insult reserved for those who choose to publicly champion ‘good’ causes or do ‘good’ things but with nefarious or disingenuous intentions.

To use the term is to pass judgement. I don’t really understand why you think it’s masquerading as an objective adjective.
 

dogwatch

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Surely the whole point of the term is that it is an insult reserved for those who choose to publicly champion ‘good’ causes or do ‘good’ things but with nefarious or disingenuous intentions.

To use the term is to pass judgement. I don’t really understand why you think it’s masquerading as an objective adjective.
I think we're saying the same thing. I don't think it's masquerading as objective at all.
 

footscray1973

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On a serious note, did anyone hear Raf Epstein on 774 Melbourne last night have a quick chat to Finn Callaghan just after 5:30 I think. Started off saying he's excited going to Sydney to join the plastics, made all the right noises, etc.
Then Raf asked him who he barracked for, and he said "Doggies, but obviously Giants now."
Finished the chat with (pretty much verbatim):

Raf: "Good luck in Sydney, don't get too seduced by Sydney, come back one day ok?"

Finn: "Hah, yeah, not sure about that, I'm a pretty loyal guy, probably stay in Sydney as long as possible, but who knows what could happen?"

Go to about 01:58:00 (interview goes for about 3 mins)

 

dogwatch

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On a serious note, did anyone hear Raf Epstein on 774 Melbourne last night have a quick chat to Finn Callaghan just after 5:30 I think. Started off saying he's excited going to Sydney to join the plastics, made all the right noises, etc.
Then Raf asked him who he barracked for, and he said "Doggies, but obviously Giants now."
Finished the chat with (pretty much verbatim):

Raf: "Good luck in Sydney, don't get too seduced by Sydney, come back one day ok?"

Finn: "Hah, yeah, not sure about that, I'm a pretty loyal guy, probably stay in Sydney as long as possible, but who knows what could happen?"

Go to about 01:58:00 (interview goes for about 3 mins)

Yeah naah.
This board was convinced Cal Ward would come back when his first contract was up too.
Most kids in the draft end up at a club that they didn’t barrack for. I shudder to think of Bont going around in Tiger colours. Fortunately it’s not going to happen.
 

footscray1973

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Yeah naah.
This board was convinced Cal Ward would come back when his first contract was up too.
Most kids in the draft end up at a club that they didn’t barrack for. I shudder to think of Bont going around in Tiger colours. Fortunately it’s not going to happen.
Probably wishful thinking, but certainly plenty of exits in recent years from the plastics. I wasn't saying specifically we would get him down the track, but just wonder if the pull is strong enough to come back to Vic. GCS and GWS have had a number of Vic boys depart over the journey.
 

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dogwatch

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I agree though Cal was an Essendon supporter.
Yes you're right.

I just meant he was another example of a kid a lot of people expected (or hoped) would come back after doing his obligatory time in western Sydney. Having played 60 games with us they assumed it'd be to the Dogs. But as we know he has instead become a legend of the young GWS club.

Yes a disconcerting number have left GWS (and it must be an ongoing headache for them) but there are also a lot of first rounders and highly rated trades who have stayed to form the core of the club.
 

footscray1973

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Yes you're right.

I just meant he was another example of a kid a lot of people expected (or hoped) would come back after doing his obligatory time in western Sydney. Having played 60 games with us they assumed it'd be to the Dogs. But as we know he has instead become a legend of the young GWS club.

Yes a disconcerting number have left GWS (and it must be an ongoing headache for them) but there are also a lot of first rounders and highly rated trades who have stayed to form the core of the club.
I think was helped along by McCartney's statement at one stage along the lines of "we'll get them back", can't remember if specifically referred to Ward, or Harbrow, or just generally about players leaving for expansion clubs.
 

GetDimmaBack

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I think was helped along by McCartney's statement at one stage along the lines of "we'll get them back", can't remember if specifically referred to Ward, or Harbrow, or just generally about players leaving for expansion clubs.
He was referring to Ward.

I feel like Toyd was a reasonable "we'll get 'em back" moment 🥰
 

footscray1973

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He was referring to Ward.

I feel like Toyd was a reasonable "we'll get 'em back" moment 🥰
Cheers GDB. Yep, good payback, agree. I wonder how involved McCartney was in the monitoring and negotiating with Toyd up to his departure, or was it just Dalrymple (and Gordon)? I've never heard Toyd refer to McCartney.
 

footscray1973

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I had lunch at a pub in North Melbourne today with two mates (both Dogs supporters). After checking in we were told there were limited tables available because of a private function. We managed to get a table and the waiter said that the GW bloody S Draft contingent had booked the private area. I said could you let them know we are here and are available to discuss the 2016 PF -- all in good fun.

Anyway, who should walk past our table but Leon Cameron. We said hello, told him we were Doggies members, and asked him if it was true he was Sam Darcy's godfather. He smiled and said yes. We mentioned the draft and he said they were very happy with Finn Callaghan and told us we were on to a really good thing in young Sam. Then he said "I reckon Bevo will take the same approach to Darcy that he has with JUH. I think Sam is about eighteen months away from coming into is own." (words to that effect).

I asked him if he knew of any ruck prospects going around and he said that there were really only about five pure rucks in the competition and that good rucks were extremely hard to come by.

He had his son with him and we didn't want to keep him any longer but he was very friendly, forthcoming and down to earth -- a really good bloke.

Pity he is coach of the plastic sh*t show.
Appreciate the post. But he would surely be aware of the trashing of his old club's brand (deliberately) by his new club when Griffen jumped ship. Surely a 'good bloke' distances themselves from that in some way, either saying to his current club "look that's probably crossed a line", or posting something along those lines, rather than letting the put-down blithely stand with his tacit support suggested by his silence?

I'm sure he's still great mates with Darcy, Grant, etc, but supporters (especially old dinosaurs like me) have l-o-n-g memories. In your scenario, I'd be polite, but also would happily mention the "lost dogs home" reference. Many years ago I attended a post-match Demons function at the MCG, where Kelvin Templeton popped in to say a few words - that was Kelvin Templeton, Melbourne player, who had just played against his old team. Without being rude, I was happy to let him know I was (possibly the only) Bulldogs supporter in the room, and I wasn't overly excited to see him in his new colours. He accepted my displeasure gracefully - far more gracefully than the feathers I ruffled amongst the assembled Demons supporters who, if I'm honest, were probably the ones I was trying to p1ss off anyway!
 

The Buck

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Appreciate the post. But he would surely be aware of the trashing of his old club's brand (deliberately) by his new club when Griffen jumped ship. Surely a 'good bloke' distances themselves from that in some way, either saying to his current club "look that's probably crossed a line", or posting something along those lines, rather than letting the put-down blithely stand with his tacit support suggested by his silence?

I'm sure he's still great mates with Darcy, Grant, etc, but supporters (especially old dinosaurs like me) have l-o-n-g memories. In your scenario, I'd be polite, but also would happily mention the "lost dogs home" reference. Many years ago I attended a post-match Demons function at the MCG, where Kelvin Templeton popped in to say a few words - that was Kelvin Templeton, Melbourne player, who had just played against his old team. Without being rude, I was happy to let him know I was (possibly the only) Bulldogs supporter in the room, and I wasn't overly excited to see him in his new colours. He accepted my displeasure gracefully - far more gracefully than the feathers I ruffled amongst the assembled Demons supporters who, if I'm honest, were probably the ones I was trying to p1ss off anyway!
Fair enough footscray1973. I was tempted to have a go about Toby Greene too but I thought that discretion was the best approach under the circumstances and just couldn't help seeing him as an ex-Dogs player. Plus Jason McCartney was in the vicinity and he is a very big bloke.:rooster: :winkv1:
 

footscray1973

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Fair enough footscray1973. I was tempted to have a go about Toby Greene too but I thought that discretion was the best approach under the circumstances and just couldn't help seeing him as an ex-Dogs player. Plus Jason McCartney was in the vicinity and he is a very big bloke.:rooster: :winkv1:
Oh Buck, as an author surely you know the pen is mightier than the sword! (I suppose technically Jason is an author too, if you discount his ghost-writer! :D )
 

footscray1973

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OMG how much does your cousin weigh? Eddie looks to be around 70kg wringing wet. :laughing:
Probably disarmed by Eddie's smile and failed to brace for contact! Plus I don't think Eddie has a malicious bone in his body, so I suspect any 'flattening' was purely accidental in Eddie's pursuit to get the ball and entertain the masses. :)
 

doggie dog

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Probably disarmed by Eddie's smile and failed to brace for contact! Plus I don't think Eddie has a malicious bone in his body, so I suspect any 'flattening' was purely accidental in Eddie's pursuit to get the ball and entertain the masses. :)
Eddie is a true gentleman and a fantastic ambassador for our sport. He's a joy to watch play footy but I must admit I have never seen him flatten anyone. ;)
I thought he may be playing against kids to flatten anyone.
 

GetDimmaBack

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Cheers GDB. Yep, good payback, agree. I wonder how involved McCartney was in the monitoring and negotiating with Toyd up to his departure, or was it just Dalrymple (and Gordon)? I've never heard Toyd refer to McCartney.
McCartney must have known about Toyd.

IIRC, Macca "left" the day before Toyd's trade request, so he'd have had no input into the machinations of the deal itself. Maybe he wasn't much involved anyway, given Gordo's 'big presidency' style at the time...
 

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