No Oppo Supporters Non Bulldog Footy Talk - Bulldogs only - Part 4

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Jun 17, 2014
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Funny thing with coaching is that things don't always work out next time around.

Pagan is a great example of that, as is Woosha. Malthouse at Carlton, too.

If the Bombres see Clarko as the solution to all their problems, they may be in for a rude shock.
Just reaction bullshit

They're just making rushed decisions. One minute they want an external review and in the same sentence, their rushing to sack a coach before the season is even ended to get another coach already in mind

Happens with their trades. Every. Year. This time, their just trying to win the off season earlier so they can feed their supporters bs while they get nowhere, again

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AFL is a meat grinder really, the media is loaded up with ex AFL players pushing their clubs agendas. I spoke to Chris Grant once about this and his comment was along the lines of big egos on display and not focusing on the game itself.

I felt our club had managed to muscle in a bit there, but when you hear Robbo blah blah on about Essendon and makes a comment about “Collingwood and Richmond have turned their clubs around…Essendon needs to as well.” You realise it is still the old VFL.
 
He was also gifted with an incredible draft hand, Hodge, Buddy and Roughead, not to mention Saints gave them a brilliant ruck and the Dogs a brilliant key defender.
We missed Buddy and took Ryan Griffen. Buddy ripped us apart in 2008. That one draft error could have given us at least one more flag, 2010 was a missed opportunity. Buddy's longevity is remarkable. Sliding doors...
 

doggiesin08

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We missed Buddy and took Ryan Griffen. Buddy ripped us apart in 2008. That one draft error could have given us at least one more flag, 2010 was a missed opportunity. Buddy's longevity is remarkable. Sliding doors...
No Griffen, no Tom Boyd …

He was also gifted with an incredible draft hand, Hodge, Buddy and Roughead, not to mention Saints gave them a brilliant ruck and the Dogs a brilliant key defender.
People overstate the Hawks drafting because they got Roughead and Franklin in the same draft (plus Lewis). Across a 3 year period though they picked Roughead, Franklin, Beau Dowler and Mitch Thorp as KPFs with top 6 picks which is much more hit and miss. Lake was the one they got super lucky with in terms of value (plus all the compromises drafts with GC and GWS hurt the chasing pack).
 
Hope it fails for Essendon so I can have a great laugh
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Sep 27, 2005
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Funny thing with coaching is that things don't always work out next time around.

Pagan is a great example of that, as is Woosha. Malthouse at Carlton, too.

If the Bombres see Clarko as the solution to all their problems, they may be in for a rude shock.

Part of me wants Clarkson to go there because you know if he does they'll go 'well, external review done, problems solved' and think the flags will just roll in.
 
Part of me wants Clarkson to go there because you know if he does they'll go 'well, external review done, problems solved' and think the flags will just roll in.

Yeah, probably.

I'm not sure Clarko would be all that keen, given the dramas in that joint. He'd be expected to fix the whole place himself.

He'd be on a hiding to nothing, wouldn't he?

He'd also have Robbo on his case...🤣
 

scooter600x

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We missed Buddy and took Ryan Griffen. Buddy ripped us apart in 2008. That one draft error could have given us at least one more flag, 2010 was a missed opportunity. Buddy's longevity is remarkable. Sliding doors...
We could have had Barry Hall a year earlier but he was contracted and Sydney wanted our first rounder for him. We wouldn't trade because we needed it because we had a high rated father-son that year - Ayce Cordy.
 

Foxman98

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We missed Buddy and took Ryan Griffen. Buddy ripped us apart in 2008. That one draft error could have given us at least one more flag, 2010 was a missed opportunity. Buddy's longevity is remarkable. Sliding doors...
We traded Griffen for Boyd who won us a real flag and not one we "might've" Franklin could've been a bust with us
 
Sep 27, 2005
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Yeah, probably.

I'm not sure Clarko would be all that keen, given the dramas in that joint. He'd be expected to fix the whole place himself.

He'd be on a hiding to nothing, wouldn't he?

He'd also have Robbo on his case...🤣

When you think about it he goes to North and he'll have five years to rebuild the joint. No pressure, lots of goodwill, feel good story.

He goes to Essendon and the expectation will be a flag next year. He'll have the nut bag supporters, the nutbag coteries, Sheedy just hovering, no CEO probably, a new President, probably a brand new football department. The joint is a mess but we know what they're like, they'll think top 2 is theirs for the taking.

I know what job I would take....
 
Robbie Gray retiring after the Showdown this weekend, one of my favourite non-Bulldogs players. Came back even better after his ACL all that time ago, he was great to watch
 

glenashley

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but have many coaches had premiership success at multiple clubs?

Matthews is the only one that comes to mind recently (and had an amazing list to work with at Brisbane).

Then you get the failures like Malthouse, Pagan and Blight who didn't last long.
 
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hutchy31

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When you think about it he goes to North and he'll have five years to rebuild the joint. No pressure, lots of goodwill, feel good story.

He goes to Essendon and the expectation will be a flag next year. He'll have the nut bag supporters, the nutbag coteries, Sheedy just hovering, no CEO probably, a new President, probably a brand new football department. The joint is a mess but we know what they're like, they'll think top 2 is theirs for the taking.

I know what job I would take....

I get that, but I'd just be taking the job with the best list.

Without doing much in-depth review (which you'd obviously do if you were doing it properly :) ) I'd favour Essendon's. A young core of Draper, Ridley, Perkins, Jones, Martin, Cox, Hobbs and maybe a couple of others feels more likely to me than North - although I am a big LDU fan, and tbf Larkey, McKay, Simpkin, Zurhaar and JHF (if he stays and becomes something) isn't a terrible core either, plus their top pick this year.

I also think it can be difficult to underestimate the pull of a "big" club with supporter base, facilities, prime timeslots and games etc. Depends if you still consider Essendon a big club I suppose.

Finally, North is a bit of a mess too. No recruiting department to speak of, and who knows what'll happen in their key admin roles.
 

Foxman98

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I get that, but I'd just be taking the job with the best list.

Without doing much in-depth review (which you'd obviously do if you were doing it properly :) ) I'd favour Essendon's. A young core of Draper, Ridley, Perkins, Jones, Martin, Cox, Hobbs and maybe a couple of others feels more likely to me than North - although I am a big LDU fan, and tbf Larkey, McKay, Simpkin, Zurhaar and JHF (if he stays and becomes something) isn't a terrible core either, plus their top pick this year.

I also think it can be difficult to underestimate the pull of a "big" club with supporter base, facilities, prime timeslots and games etc. Depends if you still consider Essendon a big club I suppose.

Finally, North is a bit of a mess too. No recruiting department to speak of, and who knows what'll happen in their key admin roles.
Draper is an average ruckman, Ridley is a handy player but only a 3rd tall, Perkins doesn't get the ball much, Jones can't kick and is fairly mediocre, Martin started like a house on fire but gets a lot of cheap ball on the outside, Cox plays every position none of them well and Hobbs looks decent their youngsters arent much at all. McKay is becoming one of the best fullbacks in the comp Larkey has kicked 79 goals in the past 2 seasons in the worst team in the comp and is miles ahead of Jones, LDU/Simpkin/JHF are miles ahead of Perkins/Hobbs/Martin. Throw in pick 2 this year Powell, Phillips, Tarryn Thomas with a full preseason who are yet to be exposed much and I don't see how you could argue for Essendons list
 
Mar 15, 2012
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but have many coaches had premiership success at multiple clubs?

Matthews is the only one that comes to mind recently (and had an amazing list to work with at Brisbane).

Then you get the failures like Malthouse, Pagan and Blight who didn't last long.
  • Leigh Matthews at Collingwood and Brisbane
  • Mick Malthouse at West Coast and Collingwood
  • Allan Jeans at St Kilda and Hawthorn
  • Ron Barassi at Carlton and North.
  • David Parkin at Hawthorn and Carlton (won flags in both his stints at the Blues)
  • John Kennedy at Hawthorn across 2 separate stints
  • Frank Hughes at Richmond and Melbourne (in 2 stints at the Dees)
 
  • Leigh Matthews at Collingwood and Brisbane
  • Mick Malthouse at West Coast and Collingwood
  • Allan Jeans at St Kilda and Hawthorn
  • Ron Barassi at Carlton and North.
  • David Parkin at Hawthorn and Carlton (won flags in both his stints at the Blues)
  • John Kennedy at Hawthorn across 2 separate stints
  • Frank Hughes at Richmond and Melbourne (in 2 stints at the Dees)
So none since Matthews nearly 20 years ago.
Hardly anyone here was born when Checker Hughes won his last flag as a coach in 1948.

Also, apart from Matthews and Malthouse these were in the era of a 12 club competition. From 1966 until the end of the VFL era six of those teams were perennial losers (Fitzroy, Footscray, Geelong, Melbourne, StKilda and South/Sydney). Flags were shared around by the other 6 teams for a quarter of a century. so the chances of winning a flag weren't nearly as diluted as they are today. We now have 18 clubs and the equalisation measures of the draft and the salary cap.

Not saying it can't be done (and if anyone could do it then Clarkson would be one of the first people you'd think of) but winning just one flag is now so hard to do and is usually the culmination of nearly a decade of team building. To then start all over again at another club means you need longevity, a lot of luck and a lot of coaching talent.
 
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It depends what Clarkson wants. If he enjoys the heat, go to the Druggies, if he wants a challenge of rebuilding from ground up and knowing he'll have the entire club behind him, go to North. If he wants a retirement fund and a few new houses, go to the Plastics.
 

Foxman98

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It depends what Clarkson wants. If he enjoys the heat, go to the Druggies, if he wants a challenge of rebuilding from ground up and knowing he'll have the entire club behind him, go to North. If he wants a retirement fund and a few new houses, go to the Plastics.
Essendon are the middle one more then North. North have a good young midfield core and very good bookends both 24 Essendon do not
 
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So none since Matthews nearly 20 years ago.
Hardly anyone here was born when Checker Hughes won his last flag as a coach in 1948.

Also, apart from Matthews and Malthouse these were in the era of a 12 club competition. From 1966 until the end of the VFL era six of those teams were perennial losers (Fitzroy, Footscray, Geelong, Melbourne, StKilda and South/Sydney). Flags were shared around by the other 6 teams for a quarter of a century. so the chances of winning a flag weren't nearly as diluted as they are today. We now have 18 clubs and the equalisation measures of the draft and the salary cap.

Not saying it can't be done (and if anyone could do it then Clarkson would be one of the first people you'd think of) but winning just one flag is now so hard to do and is usually the culmination of nearly a decade of team building. To then start all over again at another club means you need longevity, a lot of luck and a lot of coaching talent.
Malthouse won at his 2nd club in 2011 which was more recent than Matthews at Brisbane.

I'm not sure of the stats on this but it seems like, more recently, coaches aren't given so many 2nd stints than what they used to - making winning a flag at a 2nd club less likely. More often that not it's one club and done with previous coaches moving into Head of Football type roles instead. Can't imagine there being the type of situation we saw back in the 90s where Richmond and Brisbane effectively swapped coaches one off-season

Currently only Voss and Ratten have coached other clubs before. More recently (past decade), there's been Worsfold, Sheedy, Eade, maybe a couple of others. Compare that to 1995 where 8 of 16 coaches were at their 2nd club, and 1985 where 7 of 12 were at their 2nd club.
 
It depends what Clarkson wants. If he enjoys the heat, go to the Druggies, if he wants a challenge of rebuilding from ground up and knowing he'll have the entire club behind him, go to North. If he wants a retirement fund and a few new houses, go to the Plastics.
Played at north too. Some romance there.
 
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