Opinion Non-Crows AFL 13: Offseason

[Scorpus]

$67k is absurd investment for lowest paid players. Remember when we were told AFLW paid for itself. It should be a summer league, training after work and weekends (like SANFL) and the players get a nice $20k kicker for participating. No problem with each club having a couple of marquee marketing types on bigger $, but professionalising the wage structure ahead of the skills will kill the game. I remember the days when idiots were using terms like wage parity. There's serious delusion amongst some of the real die hards and it doesn't aid the cause.

I'm a fan of the women's league and I agree it's absurd.

What's also absurd is there are still women with a second job. I thought it was a full time wage? If they aren't using that full time wage to improve their skills, why are they being paid that much?

It doesn't help when the AFL has to subsidize teams like St Kilda and GWS who will never have a large women's fan base. Those two teams alone are wasting $5 million a year on player salaries that would better be used elsewhere in the women's game

 

[daniel_4tw]

I have a female friend who is ‘sports mad’. More into football than me and most on this forum (seriously) but also into Rugby, Cricket, NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL, EPL, and literally anything else on tv. She is watching sport 24/7.

When I asked her if she was into AFLW she was almost ashamed to say she didn’t care about it. Told me it was due to footy fatigue and the skill level being poor.

Thats anecdotal evidence sure, but if you can’t get the most footy mad and sport mad female fan around into your game, it’s never going to work.

I still think the league has a responsibility to provide a pathway for women etc but if anyone thinks it’s ever going to pay for itself they are delusional.

I think it’s the same as the WNBA. They’ve made a lot of ground especially with Caitlyn Clark, but will likely forever be propped up for the men’s NBA. The problem is I don’t know what the AFL was thinking with expanding more than a 3 month gig for the women.

AFL men minimum wage: $105,000 AUD
NBA men minimum wage: $1.1 million USD

AFLW minimum wage: $67,000 AUD
WNBA minimum wage: $66,000 USD

See the problem here?

 

[1970crow]

$67k is absurd investment for lowest paid players. Remember when we were told AFLW paid for itself. It should be a summer league, training after work and weekends (like SANFL) and the players get a nice $20k kicker for participating. No problem with each club having a couple of marquee marketing types on bigger $, but professionalising the wage structure ahead of the skills will kill the game. I remember the days when idiots were using terms like wage parity. There's serious delusion amongst some of the real die hards and it doesn't aid the cause.

You know you’re on the right AFLW track when Bruce is thumbs downing your posts. Let me guess Bruce, another 3 points.

 

[1970crow]

The AFL/state associations spent 50+ years trying to grow the women's game organically, from the ground up, investing in state leagues, club programs, school programs, girls Auskick centres

Millions and millions spent

Was a dismal, dismal failure. Remained very much a minority sport.

The reality was that girls didn't play football.

The only way to grow the game is to start with the end product. That will drive what they've failed to achieve through traditional Grow The Game methods. And it is happening. The national profile of the sport is now driving participation.

AFLW has/is knocking off other sports as the sport of choice for talented girls, which it has never done before in history.

The missing link is the feminists who it turns out are massive hypocrites, don't give a shit about women's sport, don't go to games and will be 100% to blame when the investment stops and AFLW goes the way of Port's China Initiative and our Baseball team

Sorry? You’re saying that the state leagues spent millions and millions trying to grow the game? All whilst eliminating girls playing from the age of about 12 to 18? Are you serious?

 

[1970crow]

This.
Make it a night game league if the heat is a problem. All games under lights. Prime time for TV. Have Christmas day and NYE games (could be double headers if you want). Make it a real event.
You give it clear air, it's own marquee time slots, make it a real festival etc... and you could turn it into something great.

Instead the geniuses at AFL house have buried it (I think deliberately) in shit time slots and have it running at the worst time (clashing with the mens game, then trade week, then the draft etc...) It's so unbelievably stupid.

I highly doubt the AFL has deliberately torpedoed it. The pressure exerted for it to replicate the men’s in terms of timing and earnings was extreme. And now those people are complaining that the AFLW stuffed up and that’s why it’s losing tens of millions annually. The girlpower movement will potentially kill it.

 

[treeman]

I’m not sure if people remember, or if I don’t remember or was a huge factor to me as I was a kid, but before the Crows began, footy is South Australia didn’t start until 8:10 pm.

Thursday games could start at 7:00 pm, but Friday and Saturday could become double headers with a later start as there is no school the next day.

But you do make a very valid point as it is a major concern for parents having kids out late on school nights.

Yeah I think it's actually worth a shot, give it a season see how it goes. But I think the lateness factor may be the sticking point.

 

[1970crow]

Anytime between 4 and 7 pm in January to March, it can still be low to mid 40’s in Adelaide and Melbourne.

Deploy the heat policy when required. What is it, quarters reduced by a couple of minutes and breaks increased. Add a couple to the bench as well.

 

[treeman]

I have a female friend who is ‘sports mad’. More into football than me and most on this forum (seriously) but also into Rugby, Cricket, NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL, EPL, and literally anything else on tv. She is watching sport 24/7.

When I asked her if she was into AFLW she was almost ashamed to say she didn’t care about it. Told me it was due to footy fatigue and the skill level being poor.

Thats anecdotal evidence sure, but if you can’t get the most footy mad and sport mad female fan around into your game, it’s never going to work.

I still think the league has a responsibility to provide a pathway for women etc but if anyone thinks it’s ever going to pay for itself they are delusional.

I think it’s the same as the WNBA. They’ve made a lot of ground especially with Caitlyn Clark, but will likely forever be propped up for the men’s NBA. The problem is I don’t know what the AFL was thinking with expanding more than a 3 month gig for the women.

AFL men minimum wage: $105,000 AUD
NBA men minimum wage: $1.1 million USD

AFLW minimum wage: $67,000 AUD
WNBA minimum wage: $66,000 USD

See the problem here?

Are those stats for real?

 

[1970crow]

Are those stats for real?

You’d hope not. But the AFL is that weak that it’s likely they’ve been taken to the cleaners by minority interests.

 

[Daniel6]

Deploy the heat policy when required. What is it, quarters reduced by a couple of minutes and breaks increased. Add a couple to the bench as well.

I think that’s what they do in the A League and the W league

 

[spenze]

Deploy the heat policy when required. What is it, quarters reduced by a couple of minutes and breaks increased. Add a couple to the bench as well.

Half time beers...

 

[daniel_4tw]

Are those stats for real?

What? The salaries?

Absolutely.

Okay, the WNBA are currently in fierce negotiations asking for more and I’m sure a lot of the players get their wages supplemented with sponsorship deals, but doesn’t change what the league is/has been paying.

Top end is also out of whack. Highest salaries:

AFLW: $260k AUD
WNBA: $270k USD

Vs the men

AFL: $1.6 million AUD
NBA: $60 million USD

For what its worth, WNBA loses the league about $40 million US a year vs AFLW that loses $50 million AUD. The difference is the NBA is generating $14 billion in revenue vs AFL $1 billion.

Feel free to google any of the numbers quoted it’s all available info.

It’s not as sustainable as people think.

I want the women’s code to succeed and I think it’s important that it exists. But having 18 teams is crazy.

They should have had it as State Of Origin (SA, WA, NSW, QLD, Vic Metro and Vic Country) and had a 5 week season with a modified top 3 finals series. Would have had interest to tune in, the very best players playing each week, teams to barrack for, own merch sales etc. grow the game from there.

No idea what they do now though? Can’t exactly walk it back. I guess TAS team is incoming + NT?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Sorry? You’re saying that the state leagues spent millions and millions trying to grow the game? All whilst eliminating girls playing from the age of about 12 to 18? Are you serious?

Yes

There were decades of attempts to grow women's football
Copious funding to clubs
To football associations
To schools
Australian Sports Commission Funding
Dedicated staffing in state football associations
Australia-wide

All delivered zero and didn't shift the needle whatsoever.

Girls didn't play football, except for the same small band of die-hards there had always been. Every new initiative failed.

The recent arrival of AFLW has finally changed the grassroots landscape.

Whether it's worth the spend is another question. Whether it's sustainable is another question again. Traditional bottom-up organic growth methods is a guaranteed, proven failure however.

 

[Jetwa5h]

Can anyone tell me if the NRLW is successful in any way? they manage 27 rounds (2026). Couldn't we do similar? maybe any opening game to the men's?

 

[Cromulant]

Can anyone tell me if the NRLW is successful in any way? they manage 27 rounds (2026). Couldn't we do similar? maybe any opening game to the men's?

The game is a better standard than AFLW but its Rugby League. Seems to get decent crowds

 

[1990crow]

Correct - 8 team league, 1 team in each of Adelaide, Perth, Sydney and SE QLD plus 4 in Melbourne.

No draft, you just sign players in your own state.

Give that 10 years and then expand slowly from there.

Maybe like the T20 change from state, to franchises, AFLW should adopt a new club setup?

They can still train at Adelaide, West Coast, Collingwood etc but they wouldn’t be the Crows, Eagles or Pies etc.

 

[1990crow]

Correct - 8 team league, 1 team in each of Adelaide, Perth, Sydney and SE QLD plus 4 in Melbourne.

No draft, you just sign players in your own state.

Give that 10 years and then expand slowly from there.

Maybe like the T20 change from state, to franchises, AFLW should adopt a new club setup?

They can still train at Adelaide, West Coast, Collingwood etc but they wouldn’t be the Crows, Eagles or Pies etc.

 

[Truck25]

But Aussie rules is not a summer sport and really needs to avoid the warmer months

Play night games

 

[Cromulant]

Play night games

When its 28 degrees and high humidty instead of 35.

Not sure it helps much.

 

[Scorpus]

When its 28 degrees and high humidty instead of 35.

Not sure it helps much.

No sun. The air temperature would still be high, but the actual temperature you'd feel out on the ground would be lower.

 

[Bovo]

Play night games

That might bring new fans out too

 

[Bovo]

No sun. The air temperature would still be high, but the actual temperature you'd feel out on the ground would be lower.

I think it’s the sun that makes the heat worse. I’m a runner and although I hate summer running, it’s bearable when there’s no sun, despite the heat

 

[Cromulant]

No sun. The air temperature would still be high, but the actual temperature you'd feel out on the ground would be lower.

I just dont think a summer series is overly fair on the players, nor would it improve the standard or gather increase in viewership.

 

[1970crow]

Yes

There were decades of attempts to grow women's football
Copious funding to clubs
To football associations
To schools
Australian Sports Commission Funding
Dedicated staffing in state football associations
Australia-wide

All delivered zero and didn't shift the needle whatsoever.

Girls didn't play football, except for the same small band of die-hards there had always been. Every new initiative failed.

The recent arrival of AFLW has finally changed the grassroots landscape.

Whether it's worth the spend is another question. Whether it's sustainable is another question again. Traditional bottom-up organic growth methods is a guaranteed, proven failure however.

I’ve no issue with the top down approach, I’ve supported it the entire time, but the scaling of salaries has been way off. As has having it compete with the pointy end of the AFL season. I’m definitely questioning the amount of $ that was invested prior to the AFLW being created.

 

[Scorpus]

I just dont think a summer series is overly fair on the players, nor would it improve the standard or gather increase in viewership.

The early seasons starting in February were fine. Two months of games, eight teams playing each other once, wrapped up by the early rounds of the men's.