Opinion Non-Crows AFL 9

[Scorpus]

If Melbourne were aware Oliver had some demons (pun not intended), but still offered him the contract they did, then that's grossly incompetent list management. Then again, they did the Grundy trade.

The deal was signed the year after he won a flag and the same year he became a back to back All Australian and back to back AFLCA award winner and back to back B&F winner

Of course you'd offer your best player in his prime with that list of accolades a massive deal ahead of free agency

It's a long term deal, if Melbourne aren't willing to support their player over the long term and would just ditch him the moment it gets a bit tough then they aren't upholding their end of the deal

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

A 7 year x $1 mill contract is a bit more than "protecting your star"; in fact you could argue that it takes all the incentive away from the player to get himself on the straight and narrow. I dunno, taking shots from the sidelines I suppose, but maybe the MFC has over-reached on this one.

If Melbourne could have their time over again, how many years would they give Oliver...

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Would have thought the "Nicks fixed the culture" types would be pretty keen on getting Oliver. A few DNMs in Nicksy's office and some hugs will sort him right out.

 

[whattagun07]

If we recruit him, I'm sure he'll receive a warm welcome at the airport from Ben Keays

2

Ben Keays

Age

28

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.9

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

13.7

3star

K

8.7

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.7

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

13.0

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

. Perhaps we can send Lachie Murphy too to show we really mean it.

 

[Mostyn]

Would have thought the "Nicks fixed the culture" types would be pretty keen on getting Oliver. A few DNMs in Nicksy's office and some hugs will sort him right out.

Maybe you fix the culture by getting rid of dickheads, not adding them ...

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Maybe you fix the culture by getting rid of dickheads, not adding them ...

I'd rather a list full of dickheads that win flags. The puritanical approach has never gotten us anywhere.

 

[skam85]

I'd rather a list full of dickheads that win flags. The puritanical approach has never gotten us anywhere.

Yeah let's all get nice well groomed virgin choir boys and finish 5th-11th every year.

 

[BucketsNj]

Maybe you fix the culture by getting rid of dickheads, not adding them ...

Agree with this. How can you say on the one hand - Melbourne are finished, their culture is stuffed, and on the other, let's get one of the reasons the culture is stuffed, in our team.

 

[Scorpus]

I'd rather a list full of dickheads that win flags. The puritanical approach has never gotten us anywhere.

I'd love to have a culture that sees us win 52 games across three seasons.

That's more wins than we have ever had across three seasons.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Agree with this. How can you say on the one hand - Melbourne are finished, their culture is stuffed, and on the other, let's get one of the reasons the culture is stuffed, in our team.

They won a flag with this culture stuffer there, as Geelong did with ours.

To have enough pure talent on the field to genuinely contend it's maybe the price you have to pay.

 

[Samcro24]

Yep

I thought "calf injury" was the preferred term for it anyway?

Parvo

 

[Geoffa32]

He needs to prioritise his life over football & get in a healthier state.

Sounds like he really should have got out of Melbourne...

How much it the 2024 season will he play as sounds like he will miss the beginning at least.

I reckon he really wanted out, and come to us. Melbourne denying this and publicly shaming him seems to have had an effect.

Darren Burgess has a good relationship with him.


Would not surprise me if he is a Crow in 2025. At a cheap trade.



On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Southerntakeover]

I'd love to have a culture that sees us win 52 games across three seasons.

That's more wins than we have ever had across three seasons.

With a premiership

 

[Scorpus]

It's interesting to look at which premiership winning clubs did or didn't support their problematic players

For example:

Collingwood - backed in Jordan De Goey

2

Jordan De Goey

Age

29

Ht

188cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.7

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.1

5star

CL

2.3

4star

D

15.8

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.3

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

despite his drunk driving and assault charges
Geelong - recruited Stengle after we delisted him despite his driving and drug offenses
Melbourne - enough said, they've backed in Clayton Oliver

10

Clayton Oliver

Age

28

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

Richmond - backed Dustin Martin despite numerous incidents including the chopstick situation and alleged groping. Recruited and backed in convicted criminal Marlion Pickett

50

Marlion Pickett

Age

33

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

5.5

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.3

5star

CL

1.5

4star

D

11.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.6

4star

CL

1.3

4star

D

12.8

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.6

4star

West Coast - backed in Willie Rioli

15

Willie Rioli

Age

30

Ht

175cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.0

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.8

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.0

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.6

3star

after his two year doping suspension. Recruited Jack Darling

27

Jack Darling

Age

33

Ht

191cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.3

2star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.4

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

14.6

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

4.0

5star

G

1.4

5star

despite off field issues at time of drafting.
Hawthorn - backed in numerous players including Brian Lake

Brian Lake

Age

43

Ht

195cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

5.3

4star

M

6.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

163.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

4.6

1star

K

2.6

1star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.6

3star

(drunken altercation), Luke Hodge (drink driving), Sam Mitchell (unsportsmanlike conduct) as well as their coach after questionable actions. Did trade Campbell Brown

Campbell Brown

Age

42

Ht

179cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.8

4star

after the 2008 flag
Western Bulldogs - ?

Pretty much all of these clubs had a culture of backing in and supporting their players despite off field incidents, in some instances even recruiting players after known off field issues

There has to be some examples of problematic star players being sacked or pushed out right before winning flags though, right?

 

[FR0GGY]

It's interesting to look at which premiership winning clubs did or didn't support their problematic players

For example:

Collingwood - backed in Jordan De Goey despite his drunk driving and assault charges
Geelong - recruited Stengle after we delisted him despite his driving and drug offenses
Melbourne - enough said, they've backed in Clayton Oliver
Richmond - backed Dustin Martin despite numerous incidents including the chopstick situation and alleged groping. Recruited and backed in convicted criminal Marlion Pickett
West Coast - backed in Willie Rioli after his two year doping suspension. Recruited Jack Darling despite off field issues at time of drafting.
Hawthorn - backed in numerous players including Brian Lake (drunken altercation), Luke Hodge (drink driving), Sam Mitchell (unsportsmanlike conduct) as well as their coach after questionable actions. Did trade Campbell Brown after the 2008 flag
Western Bulldogs - ?

Pretty much all of these clubs had a culture of backing in and supporting their players despite off field incidents, in some instances even recruiting players after known off field issues

There has to be some examples of problematic star players being sacked or pushed out right before winning flags though, right?

Whilst that’s true, Richmond also got rid of Stengle did they not?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

It's interesting to look at which premiership winning clubs did or didn't support their problematic players

For example:

Collingwood - backed in Jordan De Goey despite his drunk driving and assault charges
Geelong - recruited Stengle after we delisted him despite his driving and drug offenses
Melbourne - enough said, they've backed in Clayton Oliver
Richmond - backed Dustin Martin despite numerous incidents including the chopstick situation and alleged groping. Recruited and backed in convicted criminal Marlion Pickett
West Coast - backed in Willie Rioli after his two year doping suspension. Recruited Jack Darling despite off field issues at time of drafting.
Hawthorn - backed in numerous players including Brian Lake (drunken altercation), Luke Hodge (drink driving), Sam Mitchell (unsportsmanlike conduct) as well as their coach after questionable actions. Did trade Campbell Brown after the 2008 flag
Western Bulldogs - ?

Pretty much all of these clubs had a culture of backing in and supporting their players despite off field incidents, in some instances even recruiting players after known off field issues

There has to be some examples of problematic star players being sacked or pushed out right before winning flags though, right?

Most of these instances were where the player couldn't handle their alcohol.

De Goey has undertaken counselling & apparently changed his ways after the USA incident.

Martin similarly changed his ways after the chopstick incident.

Clubs should give players support for 2nd or even 3rd chances, depending on the incident.

Oliver is having regular incidents at the moment & doesn't appear to be getting hid life back on track. This is not a once off issue. Hopefully now he is having a break he can get his life into order... but getting to point where he may be better off with a fresh start in a different environment.

 

[Scorpus]

Whilst that’s true, Richmond also got rid of Stengle did they not?

That was before the public off field issues wasn't it?

 

[Mostyn]

That was before the public off field issues wasn't it?

Before any off field issues were public, absolutely.

 

[FR0GGY]

That was before the public off field issues wasn't it?

I thought he had issues there aswell.

 

[TRP1996]

I'd love to have a culture that sees us win 52 games across three seasons.

That's more wins than we have ever had across three seasons.

What is our best? 2005-2007 or 2015-17?

 

[Scorpus]

What is our best? 2005-2007 or 2015-17?

48 between 2015 and 2017

47 between 2005 and 2007

42 between 2001 and 2003

41 between 1997 and 1999

 

[Scorpus]

Our best across 4 years is 60 (2005-2008 and 2015-2018) and across 5 years is 75 (2005-2009)

Melbourne have currently won 61 across the last 4 seasons, and will extend that by winning 10 or more games this season.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Whilst that’s true, Richmond also got rid of Stengle did they not?

Not for any off field indescretions..

stengle requested a trade as the tigers had a mosquito fleet of small forward/mid types that he was much younger than and was stuck behind trying to get a game..

 

[FR0GGY]

Not for any off field indescretions..

stengle requested a trade as the tigers had a mosquito fleet of small forward/mid types that he was much younger than and was stuck behind trying to get a game..

Really?
I swear people complained about us getting someone who wasn’t straight down the line?

 

[Southerntakeover]

48 between 2015 and 2017

47 between 2005 and 2007

42 between 2001 and 2003

41 between 1997 and 1999

Our mighty win loss record in the first four years of the Nicks era justifies our fans football snobbery. We don't need gross elite players, we have culture.