MFC Fans Only Non-Dees AFL discussion - 2015

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Cannon82

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I don't particularly like him either. This isn't about liking Goodes or not for me. It's sorta not even about footy for me. Its about the attitude of our mainstream society. What Waleed said on Offsiders just resonated with me and my experience of the majority of attitudes I have come across with respect to indigenous people and with my experiences and relationships with black fellas. What he said made complete sense to me and expressed the feeling I had been having towards this over the last couple of weeks perfectly.

Even the notion of having indigenous round itself could be seen as further propagating distinctions upon racial lines couldn't it? I mean we don't have a Greek heritage round, and we've had some great Greek players contribute to the game right? However, I think the events of the last two weeks, if anything, highlight the HUGE amount of work there is to be done in this country with regard to even just the status quo attitude. Sure we have come a long long way, but I think where we need to get to is a place where indigenous round doesn't even make sense, because it is just common place for everyone, whites and blacks, to not only tolerate but be proud. Deep down proud, not just platitude proud, of sharing the country we live in with people that lived here for thousands of years. New Zealand had their problems but seem to have done a pretty good job of it i reckon. Seems that they are really proud of their Maori culture. The kiwis I know seem to genuinely know a fair bit about it and a pretty proud of it. Not sure the average Aussie does/would be though. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

I know I've gone slightly further (but as you say it's the week after a loss that Roos is blaming on the previous administration like a good politician) but I think for the time being at least stuff like this is happening in indigenous round and causing debate, which is a good thing. Hopefully it at least causes some people to think about it. I know it has had that affect on me.

At the end of the day though, i end up shaking my head and cant get away from the 'this is a whole bunch of (mostly) white people debating over what is or isnt racist and how indigenous people are supposed to represent themselves.' I know most of the black fellas i know would laugh at how uppity people have gotten over this
Two sides to the same coin though. There are plenty of racists in Australia, but there are also plenty of peanuts who jump up and down at the merest hint of some -ism or choose to take offence at it so they can step up to the pulpitt and berate the public about how intolerant they are. I think Goodes falls into the second category; assumes people booing him are racially motivated and takes every chance to be sanctimonious in his tarring with wide brushes. Some of the people booing may well be racist, but I'd bet the majority of them just think he's a toolbox.

Re: the last paragraph, everyone can have an opinion on something, and it's an irritating 'tactic' that seems to get used more and more these days. Dismissing what people say on the basis of their skin colour (white, black, whatever) is idiotic whichever way you look at it. I don't think anyone would be similarly understanding if a white player took an aboriginal child in the crowd and gave him/her to a white couple - that's part of our heritage though, right? Why are people getting offended because we're stealing kids again? Very few people are going to think it's awesome if Jake Spencer kicks a goal and starts mowing down opposition supporters with an imaginary machine gun. They're going to think he's a farking idiot.
 

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MUYB

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Gerard Whateley made a very good point on the same episode of insiders. You would have to be incredibly naive to believe that no portion of the crowd is booing Goodes on the basis of his race. How big that portion is is up for furious debate, but given what gets posted about him on social media and the comments section of news sites it's hard not to acknowledge that it exists.

Given there is that section of people out there who are booing him because he is indigenous, people who are booing him for other reasons should think about the situation critically, and whether they reckon that exercising their right to boo him is important enough to them to be happy with providing a veil of legitimacy for the absolute dregs of our society who just hate seeing a successful and outspoken indigenous person.
 

Cannon82

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Gerard Whateley made a very good point on the same episode of insiders. You would have to be incredibly naive to believe that no portion of the crowd is booing Goodes on the basis of his race. How big that portion is is up for furious debate, but given what gets posted about him on social media and the comments section of news sites it's hard not to acknowledge that it exists.

Given there is that section of people out there who are booing him because he is indigenous, people who are booing him for other reasons should think about the situation critically, and whether they reckon that exercising their right to boo him is important enough to them to be happy with providing a veil of legitimacy for the absolute dregs of our society who just hate seeing a successful and outspoken indigenous person.
I wouldn't classify "if you boo Adam Goodes, I'm going to think you're a racist" as a very good point. Booing in general is daft, but how is making assumptions on why someone is doing it reasonable? If you don't agree with me, you're a racist. Childish stuff.

And people are mean on the internet? I'd have to see that to believe it. If you posted a weather update on YouTube you'll have 30 people lining up to call you a campaigner and **** your mother. Such is the worldwidewonderweb.
 

MUYB

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I wouldn't classify "if you boo Adam Goodes, I'm going to think you're a racist" as a very good point. Booing in general is daft, but how is making assumptions on why someone is doing it reasonable? If you don't agree with me, you're a racist. Childish stuff.

And people are mean on the internet? I'd have to see that to believe it. If you posted a weather update on YouTube you'll have 30 people lining up to call you a campaigner and **** your mother. Such is the worldwidewonderweb.
That's an idiotic characterisation of the point being made. There are racists who boo Adam Goodes. People should think about whether they're okay with providing cover to those racists when weighing up whether to join in booing Adam Goodes.
 
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deeco

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That's an idiotic characterisation of the point being made. There are racists who boo Adam Goodes. People should think about whether they're okay with providing cover to those racists when weighing up whether to join in booing Adam Goodes.
There are child molesters who watch nappy ads, maybe we should ban them too mate.

See how ludicrous a statement that sounds like?
 

MUYB

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There are child molesters who watch nappy ads, maybe we should ban them too mate.

See how ludicrous a statement that sounds like?
Yes, it is ludicrous, given it has no relation to what anyone else is talking about it I'm not sure why you brought it up other than the dumbest attempt at a strawman I've ever seen.
 

Cannon82

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That's an idiotic characterisation of the point being made. There are racists who boo Adam Goodes. People should think about whether they're okay with providing cover to those racists when weighing up whether to join in booing Adam Goodes.
You seem to have a very flexible definition of prejudice, depending on the argument you're making. Can't argue til you're blue in the face about racism (assumptions made on the colour of someone's skin, ethnicity, etc) and then happily assume anyone doing a certain thing is racially motivated. Given your flipping of the lid, going off the handle and bouncing the baby off the wall when the issue first came up and subsequent responses, you hardly seem like someone who can look at this rationally / without telling anyone who disagrees with you how stupid they are.

If you think that's an idiotic summation of the point, there's really not much to be said. The gist of this little ditty is that if you boo Goodes at a game, you're either with the racists or you are one. People don't like to be called racists, so many of them will stop, and people like yourself will then feel comfortable identifying anyone now booing as a racist who needs re-education. Hopefully what happens after that is that the rest of the crowd start booing the people who are booing and we end up with a Mexican wave of boos ringing around the ground that'll confuse everyone involved. Tensions will rise. Fights may break out. Racist versus do-gooder; racist versus racist; do-gooder versus do-gooder; anyone booing will become a target. Security will need to be ramped up. Imaginary spears and real knives found on entry to the ground will be confiscated and the owners turned over to the Thought Police.

How about you go educate the racists, as seems to be your bent, so they no longer sully the good name of the people who boo Goodes because he's a campaigner? Your man Goodesy preaches "understanding" on the motivations to performing his little dance, so how about extending the same courtesy to the people booing him? The irritating thing about the man and those who love to defend him from all slights is the hypocrisy. Wants to be able to criticize all and sundry, doesn't want to take any back the other way. Nothing as pointless as discussing issues with someone desperately clinging to the moral high ground. The righteousness...
 

Cannon82

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Yes, it is ludicrous, given it has no relation to what anyone else is talking about it I'm not sure why you brought it up other than the dumbest attempt at a strawman I've ever seen.
Child molesters watch nappy ads. If you watch nappy ads, you're either a child molester or providing cover for them.

Don't watch nappy ads.

That's the argument you and your man Whately are making. The logic is poor.
 

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Cannon82

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deeco

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Yes, it is ludicrous, given it has no relation to what anyone else is talking about it I'm not sure why you brought it up other than the dumbest attempt at a strawman I've ever seen.
"We can't let people boo Adam Goodes because letting people boo him provides cover for racists" doesn't sound like "the dumbest attempt at a strawman" that you've ever seen?

Strange that :$
 

MUYB

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"We can't let people boo Adam Goodes because letting people boo him provides cover for racists" doesn't sound like "the dumbest attempt at a strawman" that you've ever seen?

Strange that :$
Where did I say we can't let people boo Adam Goodes? I said that people should actually take some personal ******* responsibility
 

Cannon82

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Call it hypocrisy if you want; I just don't think someone with a (court approved!) history of racial vilification will really be a worthwhile voice in this discussion.
I sometimes read Jessica Valenti articles to discover what incoherent madness she's blathering on about next. I clicketh the bait.
 

Demon 16

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1) There are plenty of people who boo Adam Goodes who do it with a racist undertone - and most of them probably don't even realise there is a racist undertone to what they are doing.

2) There are also plenty of people who boo Adam Goodes because he slides in with his knees and makes over-zealous goal celebrations.

If you boo him because you think he is over-opinionated and self-righteous, then frankly, whether you are able to see it or not, you are probably leaning towards point 1.
 

Theseventhhamster

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I've never booed Adam Goodes before, nor thought to do so despite him being a tit however I shall do so from now on to balance out the racists a bit. I think that's the lesson I was supposed to learn here.
 
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stretcharmstrong

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Gerard Whateley made a very good point on the same episode of insiders. You would have to be incredibly naive to believe that no portion of the crowd is booing Goodes on the basis of his race. How big that portion is is up for furious debate, but given what gets posted about him on social media and the comments section of news sites it's hard not to acknowledge that it exists.

Given there is that section of people out there who are booing him because he is indigenous, people who are booing him for other reasons should think about the situation critically, and whether they reckon that exercising their right to boo him is important enough to them to be happy with providing a veil of legitimacy for the absolute dregs of our society who just hate seeing a successful and outspoken indigenous person.
Wow, fantastic point.
 

Cannon82

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1) There are plenty of people who boo Adam Goodes who do it with a racist undertone - and most of them probably don't even realise there is a racist undertone to what they are doing.
I am trying to picture people booing loudly while at the same time making a strange "I don't know why I'm doing this" face.

If you boo him because you think he is over-opinionated and self-righteous, then frankly, whether you are able to see it or not, you are probably leaning towards point 1.
It'd be racist if you only booed the aboriginal / ethnic people who do it and didn't have an issue with the white guys pumping their righteous tyres up. Can't you think someone is over-opinionated and self-righteous because they're aboriginal? That's racist!
 

deeco

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Anyone know if we can build 5 MCG size grounds out the back at Casey fields?
We could maybe slap some community initiative on it, get ridiculous amounts of money from the government or get the land for $1? :rolleyes:
 
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