MFC Fans Only Non-Dees AFL discussion - 2016

[Down the throat]

We have won the same amount of games as we did last year, less than 2010/2011. As it stands all we have is a win over Freo and a +100 percentage in 2016.

Credit to the Saints they have made the most of every opportunity. Dogs curled with injuries, saints made the most of it.

All due respect, we have as many wins as last year with 5 rounds still do go (two of which are definitely winnable).

Saints folded like a pack of cards against West Coast and Adelaide (not going to check, but im pretty sure both were 100 points or so) and copped a whack from GC.

Both teams have had their moments this year (both good and bad) - we've had honourable losses to WC (at DS), Hawthorn, Adelaide and North. And we've beaten GWS. Literally the difference between the teams is the 2 wins they've had against us (and our biggest losing margin being 55).

And theyve played about 12 months and 25 games older than us all year.

Im honestly surprised by the doom and gloom after today's loss... part from some mank entries into our 50 and some average shots on goal, we were all over them.

 

[Bluelegs]

Yeah see if I was bringing a guy or girl from Canada to a game in melbourne I'd take them to etihad

Why do you hate your friends?

 

[Theo X]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-07-24/riewoldt-riled-by-fan-contact-over-the-fence

Riewoldt is such a flog, hope he apologised to the fan he wrongly accused, betting he didn't though.

 

[Sando22]

I'd rather Daw than Barlow

Me too.
Still has a sh*tload to learn though. Looks completely lost when the ball hits the deck.
Freak athlete though so purely as ruck back-up, I definitely agree.

 

[Ablett2Garland]

Norf vs Saints this weekend? thoughts?

 

[PerfectFooty]

Norf vs Saints this weekend? thoughts?

Saints at Etihad should be able to get their run and pressure going against the wounded Norf

 

[schmuttt]

Norf vs Saints this weekend? thoughts?

Norf should have enough weapons.

 

[stabler]

Norf vs Saints this weekend? thoughts?

I hope the kangas get up. Saints have overtaken north for me for most hated club (sitting just behind Hawthorn). I hate them. I hate them I hate them I hate them.

 

[Deemanding]

300 games for Scott Thompson.

Thanks a lot for leaving you flog.

I know this was last week...but I happened to be looking through 300 gamers listing and noted that of the 76 to achieve the feat, the only players to represent us are Neitz and Thompson.

Port have been around for 100 years less and have more players to get to 300 games than us.

What's the go with that...

 

[Topkent]

I know this was last week...but I happened to be looking through 300 gamers listing and noted that of the 76 to achieve the feat, the only players to represent us are Neitz and Thompson.

Port have been around for 100 years less and have more players to get to 300 games than us.

What's the go with that...

Kinda debunks the travel myth when we have had the same or less 300 gamers as WC and Freo

 

[schmuttt]

I know this was last week...but I happened to be looking through 300 gamers listing and noted that of the 76 to achieve the feat, the only players to represent us are Neitz and Thompson.

Port have been around for 100 years less and have more players to get to 300 games than us.

What's the go with that...

Probably a mix of coincidence and us just being plain bad.

 

[Sir Hugh Percy]

I know this was last week...but I happened to be looking through 300 gamers listing and noted that of the 76 to achieve the feat, the only players to represent us are Neitz and Thompson.

Port have been around for 100 years less and have more players to get to 300 games than us.

What's the go with that...

It's long been an anomaly. From memory though, if you go through the list of 300+ game players, there are 80 or 100 of them, but of those only 3 - Dyer, Coventry, Whitten - played before the 70s. I think the careers of players have been extended by improvements in nutrition, training, injury management (procedures and recovery practices) and professionalism in the 'modern' era. Even in the 80s most players had 'day jobs' as they couldn't afford to be only employed as a footballer. When you look at that period of time, we've been s**t for maybe 75% of it. So, we've had quite a number of rebuilds. I also reckon we've been behind most of the other clubs in all these developments, either because we haven't been prepared to spend the money on them or maybe it's a cultural thing about being stuck in the 'good old days'.

We've also been unlucky in that, when you think about our 'star' players, so many of them had their careers cut short by injury. Think about Jakovich, Lyon, Schwarz. There were also other very good players, like Yze and Green, who really should have got to 300 games, but their form fell off a cliff at only 30-31. That maybe goes back to a need for better fitness staff?

 

[fushy]

Funny thing about the lack of 300 is that the players we have the top two most consecutive by a decent margin, Yze might not have hit a cliff if he had a week or two off in that 226 game streak.

 

[Topkent]

I couldn't believe how quickly Yze fell away .. he was never very quick and relied on being a smart player but his last season was like he didn't give a s**t
To be fair the club probably didn't help motivate any of the older blokes as they were gonna be shipped aside like Jmac anyway

 

[Topkent]

All due respect, we have as many wins as last year with 5 rounds still do go (two of which are definitely winnable).

Saints folded like a pack of cards against West Coast and Adelaide (not going to check, but im pretty sure both were 100 points or so) and copped a whack from GC.

Both teams have had their moments this year (both good and bad) - we've had honourable losses to WC (at DS), Hawthorn, Adelaide and North. And we've beaten GWS. Literally the difference between the teams is the 2 wins they've had against us (and our biggest losing margin being 55).

And theyve played about 12 months and 25 games older than us all year.

Im honestly surprised by the doom and gloom after today's loss... part from some mank entries into our 50 and some average shots on goal, we were all over them.

Id say a fair bit of the frustration has come from the fact that we finally looked to be out the other side of this rebuilding crap and now the excuses are flowing again
I was kinda hoping this year we would take more responsibility for poor performance and less ' they trained under Ross' or ' we picked too many kids on a 6 day break'

The club clearly thinks we aren't far off and in hindsight we are probably ahead of where our list profile says we should be with the amount of kids each week but can you blame any melbourne supporter who wants to see as much tangible improvement as possible?

Theres no doubt we have improved and in the afters of a loss is not the time to reflect on it
At the same time teams like Collingwood GC Stkilda Port Adelaide and Essendon all have every right to say they can make a big jump next year aswell so if we don't keep moving forward quickly we could stay outside the 8 for a few more years whilst improving

 

[Down the throat]

Id say a fair bit of the frustration has come from the fact that we finally looked to be out the other side of this rebuilding crap and now the excuses are flowing again

Dont know about that - i think theres only two states a football team can be in: contending or rebuilding (and if youre doing neither of those, youre Melbourne 2012-13 (sunk), or perpetually Richmond (football purgatory).

We contending this year? No - probably 2 years away from being a likely top 4 team. We're the third of fourth youngest group in the competition, and while I think most of the pieces are in place, theyre still boys (most of them).

Which means were going to have great weeks. Were going to have some rubbish. Were going to have quarters or halves that are great and some that arent. For two more years.

I'd rather a slow, unstoppable climb to the top, than be a shooting star like Port fly up and plunge straight back down.

I get the frustration, its been 10 years since our last final. But look where we were in 2013. Our build started in 2014. Im preaching to the converted, no doubt, but as I said, Im surprised by the pessimism.

 

[Topkent]

Dont know about that - i think theres only two states a football team can be in: contending or rebuilding (and if youre doing neither of those, youre Melbourne 2012-13 (sunk), or perpetually Richmond (football purgatory).

We contending this year? No - probably 2 years away from being a likely top 4 team. We're the third of fourth youngest group in the competition, and while I think most of the pieces are in place, theyre still boys (most of them).

Which means were going to have great weeks. Were going to have some rubbish. Were going to have quarters or halves that are great and some that arent. For two more years.

I'd rather a slow, unstoppable climb to the top, than be a shooting star like Port fly up and plunge straight back down.

I get the frustration, its been 10 years since our last final. But look where we were in 2013. Our build started in 2014. Im preaching to the converted, no doubt, but as I said, Im surprised by the pessimism.

You can't dismiss the Port way of shooting up fast because that ignores how quickly the Bulldogs pulled themselves together and rose up the ladder
Luke Beveridge came in and stopped with the excuses, Alan Richardson has got his group playing more consistently than melbourne and they deserve to be 2 games ahead of us on the ladder
Does it mean anything in 5 years time? No it doesn't but I think we continually restrict our own development with excuses
Incremental improvement ain't gonna get us anywhere because let's be real, which team isn't gonna back themselves to improve next year
North and the Hawks maybe?

Just assuming that because youth = top 4 soon enough doesn't work, like I said before of you ask the fans of the Saints Pies Dogs GC GWS Port they would all say the could be top 4 in 2 years
Bloody Sydney has played 7 debutants this year and have added potentially the 2 best midfielders of the last 2 drafts into their lineup
I'm still confident we are on the right track but there are no guarantees in anything
How many teams actually incrementally improve to a flag, plenty of teams have taken a quantum leap aswell

Clearly GWS is an extrodinary circumstance but they literally started from scratch and could be top 4 within 4 years of their existence
So if that's the perfect scenario and we are in year 3 it's reasonable to expect a big leap next year

 

[Proper Gander]

Id say a fair bit of the frustration has come from the fact that we finally looked to be out the other side of this rebuilding crap and now the excuses are flowing again
I was kinda hoping this year we would take more responsibility for poor performance and less ' they trained under Ross' or ' we picked too many kids on a 6 day break'

The club clearly thinks we aren't far off and in hindsight we are probably ahead of where our list profile says we should be with the amount of kids each week but can you blame any melbourne supporter who wants to see as much tangible improvement as possible?

Theres no doubt we have improved and in the afters of a loss is not the time to reflect on it
At the same time teams like Collingwood GC Stkilda Port Adelaide and Essendon all have every right to say they can make a big jump next year aswell so if we don't keep moving forward quickly we could stay outside the 8 for a few more years whilst improving

I don't really pay too much attention to the excuses. I suspect it's totally deliberate as a way of deflecting blame from a very young team that we are playing. While announcing each week that the team was s**t and didn't meet expectations is very old-school and tough and all, I'm not convinced that telling a very young team on a weekly basis that they aren't good enough is a sound way to build self belief. And the Lyon comment did sound a bit weird but I interpreted it more is that the Saints rebuild emerged from stronger foundations - GF level - then the demons, so it's not that surprising that they are sometimes ahead in terms of composure and maintaining intensity.

 

[Proper Gander]

You can't dismiss the Port way of shooting up fast because that ignores how quickly the Bulldogs pulled themselves together and rose up the ladder
Luke Beveridge came in and stopped with the excuses, Alan Richardson has got his group playing more consistently than melbourne and they deserve to be 2 games ahead of us on the ladder
Does it mean anything in 5 years time? No it doesn't but I think we continually restrict our own development with excuses
Incremental improvement ain't gonna get us anywhere because let's be real, which team isn't gonna back themselves to improve next year
North and the Hawks maybe?

Just assuming that because youth = top 4 soon enough doesn't work, like I said before of you ask the fans of the Saints Pies Dogs GC GWS Port they would all say the could be top 4 in 2 years
Bloody Sydney has played 7 debutants this year and have added potentially the 2 best midfielders of the last 2 drafts into their lineup
I'm still confident we are on the right track but there are no guarantees in anything
How many teams actually incrementally improve to a flag, plenty of teams have taken a quantum leap aswell

Clearly GWS is an extrodinary circumstance but they literally started from scratch and could be top 4 within 4 years of their existence
So if that's the perfect scenario and we are in year 3 it's reasonable to expect a big leap next year

You may well see a leap next year, but GWS isn't a realistic yardstick for any other team with the draft concessions.

If we are treated kindly by the injury fairy next year and still fail to make inroads on ladder position, then I would think about giving consideration to your premise that we are 'restricting our own development with excuses' but for this year it seems silly.

Before the season started you seemed one of the more rational posters regarding likely numbers of wins, but now you seem to be napalming all over the place because we haven't erupted into finals like Port a few years back or dogs last year. Give the formula a bit longer to activate I say - too many players have only played a handful of games together, or even a handful full stop. For my part I was hoping I would see an end to the blowouts this year, and so far that's the case. Notably, we won twice interstate this year - nearly 3 times, which is more than can be said for the Saints who are apparently playing so consistently. Percentage is on the move upwards which is generally a pretty sound indicator of direction.

I would have loved more wins. The St Kilda losses especially get to me, but that's probably because I have a bit of a thing about that team. And of course other supporters rate their youth and future and anything can happen in 5 years no guarantees etc etc, but I feel perfectly happy for now that I have seen very tangible improvement in all areas regardless of W L for 2016 - and I wouldn't as such 'blame' a Melbourne supporter for not seeing it as think they were probably viewing the season from a fairly shallow perspective.

 

[Topkent]

I don't really pay too much attention to the excuses. I suspect it's totally deliberate as a way of deflecting blame from a very young team that we are playing. While announcing each week that the team was s**t and didn't meet expectations is very old-school and tough and all, I'm not convinced that telling a very young team on a weekly basis that they aren't good enough is a sound way to build self belief. And the Lyon comment did sound a bit weird but I interpreted it more is that the Saints rebuild emerged from stronger foundations - GF level - then the demons, so it's not that surprising that they are sometimes ahead in terms of composure and maintaining intensity.

I agree with alot of what your saying but there's a fine line between encouragement and giving the players an out
For all I know roosy might tear shreds out of them behind closed doors and completely bullshit the media .. I suspect the second part of that is true anyway
I do think we have limited our own development at times though

 

[Proper Gander]

I agree with alot of what your saying but there's a fine line between encouragement and giving the players an out
For all I know roosy might tear shreds out of them behind closed doors and completely bullshit the media .. I suspect the second part of that is true anyway
I do think we have limited our own development at times though

Yeah I'm guessing the media stuff is designed for media not for players - and following from the Jack Watts example in his previous years, probably best to attempt some deflection.

I don't know that we have limited development especially, if anything I wonder if we have encouraged it at the expense of wins - i.e dropping experienced players for 1st year players and persisting with young players regardless of errors.

 

[Topkent]

You may well see a leap next year, but GWS isn't a realistic yardstick for any other team with the draft concessions.

If we are treated kindly by the injury fairy next year and still fail to make inroads on ladder position, then I would think about giving consideration to your premise that we are 'restricting our own development with excuses' but for this year it seems silly.

Before the season started you seemed one of the more rational posters regarding likely numbers of wins, but now you seem to be napalming all over the place because we haven't erupted into finals like Port a few years back or dogs last year. Give the formula a bit longer to activate I say - too many players have only played a handful of games together, or even a handful full stop. For my part I was hoping I would see an end to the blowouts this year, and so far that's the case. Notably, we won twice interstate this year - nearly 3 times, which is more than can be said for the Saints who are apparently playing so consistently. Percentage is on the move upwards which is generally a pretty sound indicator of direction.

I would have loved more wins. The St Kilda losses especially get to me, but that's probably because I have a bit of a thing about that team. And of course other supporters rate their youth and future and anything can happen in 5 years no guarantees etc etc, but I feel perfectly happy for now that I have seen very tangible improvement in all areas regardless of W L for 2016 - and I wouldn't as such 'blame' a Melbourne supporter for not seeing it as think they were probably viewing the season from a fairly shallow perspective.

That's not quite true you cheeky bugger
I still didn't think we would play finals this year even after our good start because I understood this was a development year when the dust has settled on the year I'm sure it will be viewed as a successful one
In saying that we can still be disappointed on a week to week basis without having to view everything so wholelistically
We were thoroughly embarrassed against the Saints and I think we poorly coached against them twice
The players were actually brilliant in the west and for all intensive purposes it was a win even if it wasn't 4 points but there were still some extremely poor aspects and some things that need to be fixed before we can be a finals contender

 

[Proper Gander]

That's not quite true you cheeky bugger
I still didn't think we would play finals this year even after our good start because I understood this was a development year when the dust has settled on the year I'm sure it will be viewed as a successful one
In saying that we can still be disappointed on a week to week basis without having to view everything so wholelistically
We were thoroughly embarrassed against the Saints and I think we poorly coached against them twice
The players were actually brilliant in the west and for all intensive purposes it was a win even if it wasn't 4 points but there were still some extremely poor aspects and some things that need to be fixed before we can be a finals contender

We truly suck against the Saints. It's the hoodoo I most want gone.

 

[Topkent]

Yeah I'm guessing the media stuff is designed for media not for players - and following from the Jack Watts example in his previous years, probably best to attempt some deflection.

I don't know that we have limited development especially, if anything I wonder if we have encouraged it at the expense of wins - i.e dropping experienced players for 1st year players and persisting with young players regardless of errors.

And as you know with our bet I'm all for that aswell I'd happily never see Garlo or Grimes play for melbourne again and I'm glad we are developing kids that's not what I mean though
Can't we be disappointed we aren't in the saints position whilst acknowledging we have improved this year?

 

[Proper Gander]

And as you know with our bet I'm all for that aswell I'd happily never see Garlo or Grimes play for melbourne again and I'm glad we are developing kids that's not what I mean though
Can't we be disappointed we aren't in the saints position whilst acknowledging we have improved this year?

Yeah okay you can have that.

I'm containing my disappointment in not being in the Saints position by remaining convinced that Demons have better yoof and upside etc, and therefore will not retain this misleading superiority beyond 2016. I hope I'm right because otherwise I could be in pretty bad shape in 2017.