MFC Fans Only Non-Dees AFL discussion - 2016

[Sir Hugh Percy]

Blokes who are also bogans pretty much are bad people - at best tedious and at worst mindless thugs. But always bores. There is no possible construction of "bogan" that makes it complimentary or positive.

Jacks is as tedious a bore as this country has managed to unearth. Nobody over the age of 5 has ever found his behaviour appealing. I'm not in the least surprised the US was the only place that embraced his bullshit brand of psuedo Australiana crap. It was utterly embarrassing.

WTF has the popularity of NHL amongst Canadian women got to do with anything. That one suddenly emerged from nowhere. Are you suggesting women have destroyed AFL or something? Or that women don't like AFL and they would like Hockey better? There always seem to be lots in the crowds at AFL most weeks.

Most of this persecution complex that "my country has been ruined by women, gays and PC police" is just something you have built up in your head, you know. And if your keeping it propped up with examples provided by Jacko then I'd say it's reached peak fragility.

No, I think he was saying that it was the perception of what women want, children should be exposed to as role models, etc. that has been the issue, not what women actually want.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

....

Most of this persecution complex that "my country has been ruined by women, gays and PC police" is just something you have built up in your head, you know. And if your keeping it propped up with examples provided by Jacko then I'd say it's reached peak fragility.

You forgot Muslims and uppity indigenous types!

Nice post.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

No, I think he was saying that it was the perception of what women want, children should be exposed to as role models, etc. that has been the issue, not what women actually want.

Who's perception? I think it's a long bow to draw, where you might be going with that...

As far as role models for children - I think it's reasonable for the people charged with overseeing one of our society's most popular pass times to take reasonable steps to ensure the community involved does set good examples for our most impressionable - our kids.

Won't somebody please think of the children!

Had to do it

 

[RatherHaveABeer]

Jacko is a walking, talking contradiction.

Bitched and moaned throughout the interview about how Melbourne was a garbage club because every player on the list only cared about themselves, yet saw no problem in wanting to belt Healey at the end of one season because he'd kicked one more goal than him for the year.

The main crux of his argument for being filthy at Mike revolved around the fact that he'd apparently destroyed his career through various articles. Mike prodded him countless times to bring up specific examples of what he'd written that destroyed his career (and also killed his old man apparently), yet he couldn't name one. If you're going to constantly fall on that as your main argument, at least come prepared with some examples.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

You say that like all blokes an bogans are bad people though and the games better without them
Why couldn't they include more people without ruining the essence of the game?
Like for instance over here you could argue NHL is the most violent sport on earth , the men who play it are men and they are allowed to fight each other like men toe to toe and there is absolutely no diving or faking at all
You know how popular the sport is here amongst women? Hugely popular

The have sanitized the game for **** knows what reason for too many years to fight this imaginary soccer threat

Blokes and bogans are okay for some (which includes me) who just don't give a s**t how they behave because we can deal with it.

A lot of people can't deal with it - women, children, elderly and they have just as much a share in the game as the typical bloke.

The game has grown on the back of these people jumping on board and has changed a little to accommodate them.

 

[Topkent]

Blokes and bogans are okay for some (which includes me) who just don't give a s**t how they behave because we can deal with it.

A lot of people can't deal with it - women, children, elderly and they have just as much a share in the game as the typical bloke.

The game has grown on the back of these people jumping on board and has changed a little to accommodate them.

I feel like the lines of this conversation have been blurred a little, Im not advocating for blokes like Jacko to walk back into footy clubs and start belting blokes left right and centre like the 'good old days'
But Id challenge anyone the game is a better product in terms of on field entertainment these days, I saw on AFL 360 that they were asking each other if the girls would show all there cool celebrations and entertain the crowd? The answer was yes its there game to make what they want of.... What the *? These same journalists who right story after story and mercilessly crush every ounce of personality out of the male footballers

My opinion doesnt mean s**t, its just my opinion but I can see the popularity of the sport declining around australia if this continues

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Is Proper Gander a chick for reals? I still don't believe it!

I wouldn't believe it either if I was you. Disinfo agents everywhere on BF. PG does have one of those not from Victoria accents though, so it's best to stay suspicious at all times.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I feel like the lines of this conversation have been blurred a little, Im not advocating for blokes like Jacko to walk back into footy clubs and start belting blokes left right and centre like the 'good old days'
But Id challenge anyone the game is a better product in terms of on field entertainment these days, I saw on AFL 360 that they were asking each other if the girls would show all there cool celebrations and entertain the crowd? The answer was yes its there game to make what they want of.... What the ****? These same journalists who right story after story and mercilessly crush every ounce of personality out of the male footballers

My opinion doesnt mean s**t, its just my opinion but I can see the popularity of the sport declining around australia if this continues

Sure, I get your point there - but the entertainment and antics was targeted towards a certain demographic that isn't the dominant one anymore.

The game has continued to grow and grow, it might be less popular amongst traditionalists but it will keep growing with the youth.

 

[Topkent]

Sure, I get your point there - but the entertainment and antics was targeted towards a certain demographic that isn't the dominant one anymore.

The game has continued to grow and grow, it might be less popular amongst traditionalists but it will keep growing with the youth.

Personally I think it's gone too far one way but I'm as likely to change your opinion on this as you're mine
My arguments even broader than that aswell, remember all the attacking footy from the start of the year? Well just quietly it's dropped back to 30 year lows again basically in the second half of the year

I'd like 2 simple things brought back into footy
Remove rotations which will hopefully encourage more positional play .. I'd literally drop it to 10 per quarter
Stop this crap that AFL players are role models in society, they are no more a role model than me and you
I find it so ironic now that the only people who are allowed to speak openly and honestly about subjects are comedians

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Personally I think it's gone too far one way but I'm as likely to change your opinion on this as you're mine
My arguments even broader than that aswell, remember all the attacking footy from the start of the year? Well just quietly it's dropped back to 30 year lows again basically in the second half of the year

I'd like 2 simple things brought back into footy
Remove rotations which will hopefully encourage more positional play .. I'd literally drop it to 10 per quarter
Stop this crap that AFL players are role models in society, they are no more a role model than me and you
I find it so ironic now that the only people who are allowed to speak openly and honestly about subjects are comedians

I think the attacking footy is still going - not quite the same but with worse conditions, more wet weather, etc it does become harder to score.

Players are role models in society, like it or not - and always have been.

Either looked up to in the 80s and 90s for their antics or now for their community work.

 

[Topkent]

I think the attacking footy is still going - not quite the same but with worse conditions, more wet weather, etc it does become harder to score.

Players are role models in society, like it or not - and always have been.

Either looked up to in the 80s and 90s for their antics or now for their community work.

Why do those last 2 have to be mutually exclusive
You can't entertain on the field and do work for charity?
That's like saying UFC and and Boxing should be banned because it's people fighting and they must all be bad people

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Why do those last 2 have to be mutually exclusive
You can't entertain on the field and do work for charity?
That's like saying UFC and and Boxing should be banned because it's people fighting and they must all be bad people

Antics isn't leaving it to purely on field.

It depends what entertainment is, do we want our game to become rife with showboating like NFL? Probably not.

 

[Proper Gander]

Personally I think it's gone too far one way but I'm as likely to change your opinion on this as you're mine
My arguments even broader than that aswell, remember all the attacking footy from the start of the year? Well just quietly it's dropped back to 30 year lows again basically in the second half of the year

I'd like 2 simple things brought back into footy
Remove rotations which will hopefully encourage more positional play .. I'd literally drop it to 10 per quarter
Stop this crap that AFL players are role models in society, they are no more a role model than me and you
I find it so ironic now that the only people who are allowed to speak openly and honestly about subjects are comedians

I'd actually support both of those positions re encouragement of a return to positional play and killing off the notion that athletes are role models of something other than the way they play sport. I love cricket and watching Shane Warne without giving a s**t who he texted, slept with or offended.

I don't personally mind the blokey nature of sports like the AFL or some of the personalities, but I can see that there might be people who felt excluded from the sport as a result of it.

If there is a kind of neutering of the personalities, particularly younger players, I would be inclined to point the finger of the architecture of modern media rather than the corporate AFL - they would allow the proliferation of as many Jackos wielding chainsaws as they thought they could get away with if it looked like it was the best way to make a dollar.

I think what is really forcing the smoothing down of the corners of personality and preventing players, particularly young ones with limited experience is the constant, 24 hour news cycle poised to deconstruct everything they say or do and the new world of interactive commentary, where Twitter, Facebook, and sites like this one can generate constant and instant feedback on every aspect of a person in the public eye from any person who pleases with virtually no controls. End result is players are endlessly counselled as to safe responses and managed as generic products to evade negative commentary wherever possible. There are positives to the era of open engagement obviously, but this isn't one of them

 

[Proper Gander]

Oi Topkent - in other news Garland is in.

I'm pretty certain that he's not there as such for his personality which is second most boring to about 10 guys in St Kilda who I struggle to name, but my Avatar hopes live yet another week.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Personally I think it's gone too far one way but I'm as likely to change your opinion on this as you're mine
My arguments even broader than that aswell, remember all the attacking footy from the start of the year? Well just quietly it's dropped back to 30 year lows again basically in the second half of the year

I'd like 2 simple things brought back into footy
Remove rotations which will hopefully encourage more positional play .. I'd literally drop it to 10 per quarter
Stop this crap that AFL players are role models in society, they are no more a role model than me and you
I find it so ironic now that the only people who are allowed to speak openly and honestly about subjects are comedians

Speaking openly and honestly does not conflict with being a role model. And you are slightly correct, in one sense they are no more role models than you and I - we should try to act non-douchey too, shouldn't we?? You wouldn't go on national TV and speak some of the rubbish you do behind closed doors with mates, neither would I. And there's nothing wrong with that, IMO. But by virtue of their exposure, whether they or you like it or not, they will be copied/mimicked by the youth. Therefore there is a responsibility bestowed upon them to treat that position with respect. They don't have to be perfect. But they should be able to control themselves out in public like you or I should. And they should not be douches. Jacko was a douche and still is. It's really easy to be a role model. Why is it seen as such a burden?

 

[wowlace]

I literally pay no attention to football outside of the first bounce and the final siren of Dees games because it is ******* unbearable. I am only aware of the SJW s**t that goes down week to week from the 1st page of threads on this site. It's mostly just ******* holier than thou half wits virtue signalling.

 

[Djcjdees]

It's really easy to be a role model. Why is it seen as such a burden?

I think it is seen this way because the media's (and seemingly the public's as well) definition of a role model is indeed to be perfect. Particularly with males these days.

The archetypal modern male has to be just the right amount of 'male', which means, being macho but too macho, intelligent but not allowed to explain stuff in a way that makes you look like you don't think the person you are explaining it to wouldn't know already, good at sports but not a jock etc. Then also the right amount of what is more traditionally seen as 'female'. So that's being in touch with your emotions, being able to talk about them openly, being sensitive to the needs of others, knowing all about women and currently acceptable practices etc all the while not coming across as too feminine (otherwise you contravene the 'right amount of male' bit). A lot of these guys are in their early 20s and simply haven't figured it out yet. Hell I'm in my 30s and I haven't yet.

I think that is quite a difficult thing to achieve given the exposure they face as you point out. It's a difficult thing to achieve anyway I reckon.

I dunno, I think it raises a broader issue of what a male role model looks like. If I was asked who my role model was, I don't think I'd be able to answer you. Probably bits of different men. I certainly don't wanna be just like dad, but there are bits of him that I try and emulate. I certainly don't wanna be like Johnno Brown, but there are probably traits of his that are desirable and so on.

I'm rambling and it's clear I haven't come to any conclusions but hopefully I make some sort of sense

 

[djpaulydemon]

I think it is seen this way because the media's (and seemingly the public's as well) definition of a role model is indeed to be perfect. Particularly with males these days.

The archetypal modern male has to be just the right amount of 'male', which means, being macho but too macho, intelligent but not allowed to explain stuff in a way that makes you look like you don't think the person you are explaining it to wouldn't know already, good at sports but not a jock etc. Then also the right amount of what is more traditionally seen as 'female'. So that's being in touch with your emotions, being able to talk about them openly, being sensitive to the needs of others, knowing all about women and currently acceptable practices etc all the while not coming across as too feminine (otherwise you contravene the 'right amount of male' bit). A lot of these guys are in their early 20s and simply haven't figured it out yet. Hell I'm in my 30s and I haven't yet.

I think that is quite a difficult thing to achieve given the exposure they face as you point out. It's a difficult thing to achieve anyway I reckon.

I dunno, I think it raises a broader issue of what a male role model looks like. If I was asked who my role model was, I don't think I'd be able to answer you. Probably bits of different men. I certainly don't wanna be just like dad, but there are bits of him that I try and emulate. I certainly don't wanna be like Johnno Brown, but there are probably traits of his that are desirable and so on.

I'm rambling and it's clear I haven't come to any conclusions but hopefully I make some sort of sense

I feel this.

Males still have almost everything easier in life, especially biologically, and still socially even in western countries. I know I would rather be a white male than a woman in Africa, but there is an increasing expectation of men possessing contradicting virtues that is leading a lot of introspective men in to having negative perceptions of themselves.

I guess its something women have always had to deal with that we are only now starting to experience.

Footy players like most people just want to be accepted, and as a society we are a lot more accepting of other races, cultures, sexual orientations and stigmas like mental health than we used to be, but we are less accepting of people who want to make others feel bad about those things.

 

[Topkent]

I think it is seen this way because the media's (and seemingly the public's as well) definition of a role model is indeed to be perfect. Particularly with males these days.

The archetypal modern male has to be just the right amount of 'male', which means, being macho but too macho, intelligent but not allowed to explain stuff in a way that makes you look like you don't think the person you are explaining it to wouldn't know already, good at sports but not a jock etc. Then also the right amount of what is more traditionally seen as 'female'. So that's being in touch with your emotions, being able to talk about them openly, being sensitive to the needs of others, knowing all about women and currently acceptable practices etc all the while not coming across as too feminine (otherwise you contravene the 'right amount of male' bit). A lot of these guys are in their early 20s and simply haven't figured it out yet. Hell I'm in my 30s and I haven't yet.

I think that is quite a difficult thing to achieve given the exposure they face as you point out. It's a difficult thing to achieve anyway I reckon.

I dunno, I think it raises a broader issue of what a male role model looks like. If I was asked who my role model was, I don't think I'd be able to answer you. Probably bits of different men. I certainly don't wanna be just like dad, but there are bits of him that I try and emulate. I certainly don't wanna be like Johnno Brown, but there are probably traits of his that are desirable and so on.

I'm rambling and it's clear I haven't come to any conclusions but hopefully I make some sort of sense

You raise a great point about role models and who you should look up to
Peoples role models as the media would have you believe aren't real people
They are opinion less robots who never outrage, nor challenge, they never question and never move from the straight line they are told to stay on
Someone who I respect is Sam Newman, is he a role model? Not in the way the media would have you believe a role model is
However I respect him for always being his own man, sticking to his convictions and not giving a s**t about being unpopular
I disagree with plenty of what he says and agree with alot also .. but that's the point of having opinions everyone should be allowed to have their own and just because you have one that isn't being pushed as a media focal point doesn't make you a bad person

These afl players are not allowed to have opinions on anything .. all 800 of them tow the company line, how is that someone you should look up to ?
I met Tom Hafey, he's another person I respected and I'll never forget the talk I had with him

I don't have a role model, the notion is ******* stupid .. you should take parts of people that you want to be able to represent as yourself
From multiple people

 

[MUYB]

If you don't think Sam Newman cares about what people think of him then I don't know what to tell you. He's not necessarily trying to be popular (although he targets popularity at a certain demographic, people like yourself who spend all day yelling about political correctness gone mad), but he absolutely says things to get a response because that's how he makes money. He's a shock jock.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Some damn good discussion in here. Wish I had time to get more involved, but enjoyed reading the last handful of contributions

 

[Tempy Tiger]

God I love Caleb Daniel. Got yo be a huge chance for the rising star. He is just never out of the contest.

 

[MUYB]

Dogs simply do not have the cattle to go tonight.

 

[TheCount]

Dogs simply do not have the cattle to go tonight.

Yeah, footy is a cruel game isn't it.

The quality they have out of the team at the moment is just absurd. It'll probably benefit them in the long run, when they've got the majority of these players back on the park, with a solid dozen players in the twos who've had a really good taste of AFL footy, they'll be a better team for it.

 

[Topkent]

That moment you realise Tim Membrey is having a better year than Jack Watts